thats why I dont like doubles (have one)

[Bert the Turtle]

I thought the first shot was too high also. I've been wondering why the bull dropped at all initially. Maybe why the PH said it was a good shot. Speculating that maybe it nicked a bony outer part of a vertebra and caused a temporary nerve shock?

It’s a classic spinous process shot. Hit a spinous process, shocked the spinal cord, up again in seconds. Barring infection, it would have healed right up. A high shoulder shot will also cause the animal to drop, but it will damage important things and eventually kill the animal. Any time an animal drops to the shot, it is imperative to reload and get back on target right away and be ready to shoot again if it gets up.

 

[HankBuck]

I view that Buffalo hunt as a mortal street fight.
Not two poorly skilled drunks slinging haymakers. But a truly brutal, to the death fight.

Real mortal fights to the death rarely look like the choreographed movie fights. They are sloppy and if the opponents are relatively closely matched can go either way and often come down to some luck.

If this street fight was one on one it may have been a different ending.


To me: The man factor is both stayed in the fight and didn’t panic. I can only hope I would be able to when in that position.

Agree that was as “Manly” as it gets - a brawl

 

[Altitude sickness]

Took my double for a stroll this AM to jump up some dangerous game.

I didn’t find any. But did find a rabbit. And after reading this post. I couldn’t risk him surprising me unexpectedly. So I mounted the 20” barreled 20 gauge and shot. to preemptively end a future charge.

Seriously though. It does feel like decent practice. and it’s all I have to simulate carrying, mounting, swinging and shooting at a moving animal in thick brush. With very limited windows and time. Plus it’s fun and good eating.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

The hunting community has generally converged around bolt rifles or double rifles in a relatively narrow power range, taking buffalo on foot, from about 50 yards. If someone suggests using a 375RUM because of its flat trajectory, it will be quickly pointed out that dangerous game "should" be taken at close range.

I have read this thread with interest. One item that comes to mind is this: Why is it rote that DG "should" be taken at close range? Several thoughts come to mind that may in part be the answer.
1) The big, slow cartridges that are most commonly in use on DG are not that accurate at ranges in excess of 50-100y when fired from iron sight rifles. A good 1st shot being paramount the PH guides the hunter in close.
2) The soft expanding bullets often used such as A-Frame or Barnes TSX will expand better at closer range due to faster velocity on impact.
3) The PH wants the hunter to get his/her money's worth and thus guides them in close to the buff/ele/other DG for the thrill.
4) Hunters have been castigated in Africa for wanting to shoot the animal from longer distances and thus get labeled as "Sniper" as was commented on this thread.

Being a long range shooter, I place a high degree of value on the ability to shoot and hit my tgt at ranges that many marksmen would claim is impossible. However, when hunting I rarely take a long shot for a variety of reasons. Some of my best hunting memories are from up close encounters. But, no matter how good I may place my first shot, the animal is going to be unpredictable. Some may charge even with the heart and both lungs shot to pieces. They are more likely to run away than at you but it can and does happen. In one bad experience I was surprised by a quarry which appeared unexpectedly forcing me to take an off-hand shot at a longer distance than I would have wanted. My shot was high/left on an animal which presented a frontal shot. The bullet choice was also poor. I was using a 270 ballistic tip in 130g and it fragmented doing some horrific damage to the upper shoulder and punctured one lung. I was using a CRF Mauser custom and as the wounded beast ran toward me I attempted three more followup shots as it approached and only hit with one of them which broke the front leg but did not drop the animal. My quarry ran past me at close range as I fired and missed the last shot. Being empty, I reloaded one into the mag and launched a final 5th shot downrange at the disappearing arse of my tgt. A very long tracking job thru thick brush was a lesson in the intelligence and toughness of some wild animals. After a few hours of tracking we found it dead about 600y away after dark. My personal performance was poor in this case. A variety of lessons were learned:
1) Frontal shots are more likely to fail since they cannot usually puncture both lungs and the heart with one shot. Avoids these if possible.
2) I failed to check zero on this hunt and the scope I was using was off causing me to hit high by several inches. This is the first and only time I did not check zero before hunting and I paid for it with a poorly placed 1st shot and a bunch of missed followups.
3) I need more practice on taking off hand shots under pressure.
4) With exception of varmint hunting the ballistic tip bullets are not the best choice for hunting larger game. They work OK on broadside shots but fragment and can fail to penetrate enough on other frontal or quartering shots. A better bonded soft point or Barnes type bullet is now my choice most times.
5) Lighter bullets are not usually the best choice for larger game. It took me a while to learn this.

Many years ago I went on my first DG hunt. It was in an undisclosed location. I shot my quarry with a perfect broadside shot with a 7.62x51mm (308) at very close range. It was an iron sight shot with an FAL from about 5ft range. The quarry did not flinch and I was stunned that such a close range and obviously well placed shot had no visible affect on my quarry. I could have (should have) fired two or three more times but was so surprised that I just watched as he ran away. He ran about 30y and died. Stone dead. He was dead after the shot but it took a few seconds for him to realize it. Lesson learned. If the quarry is still up and moving, keep shooting until it is not.

I am not a double gun hater. I do not own a DR due to the princely sum required to acquire one and my limited opportunity to use it. I do own a nice SxS shotgun and use it often. It is light, handy, accurate and for some situations it is great. I have taken hundreds of birds with it with only one memorable failure: A fast passing teal was in my sights. I only had about half a second to take my shot using steel pellet duck loads. Upon pulling the front trigger, my finger slipped back and also pulled the rear trigger a fraction of a second later. The double recoil caused the trigger guard to smash rear-ward into my right middle finger breaking the bone. This was over 30yr ago but it still hurts me to this day. I still use the sxs but have never had it happen again. I did kill the duck so, I guess it was a success? IMO it was an epic fail. Still, If I was going into tight bush after a client's wounded DG animal, I would want a DR over about anything else. For non-PH client hunters, I think the DR is not the best 1st choice most of the time except for ele or rhino. Different strokes.

 

[HankBuck]

Took my double for a stroll this AM to jump up some dangerous game.

I didn’t find any. But did find a rabbit. And after reading this post. I couldn’t risk him surprising me unexpectedly. So I mounted the 20” barreled 20 gauge and shot. to preemptively end a future charge.

Seriously though. It does feel like decent practice. and it’s all I have to simulate carrying, mounting, swinging and shooting at a moving animal in thick brush. With very limited windows and time. Plus it’s fun and good eating. View attachment 588100

More realistic - shoot that rabbit with the rifled barrels and a full load, learn to handle the recoil and be accurate enough to hit a rabbit —- buffalo will then present an “enormous target”

 

[HankBuck]

I have read this thread with interest. One item that comes to mind is this: Why is it rote that DG "should" be taken at close range? Several thoughts come to mind that may in part be the answer.
1) The big, slow cartridges that are most commonly in use on DG are not that accurate at ranges in excess of 50-100y when fired from iron sight rifles. A good 1st shot being paramount the PH guides the hunter in close.
2) The soft expanding bullets often used such as A-Frame or Barnes TSX will expand better at closer range due to faster velocity on impact.
3) The PH wants the hunter to get his/her money's worth and thus guides them in close to the buff/ele/other DG for the thrill.
4) Hunters have been castigated in Africa for wanting to shoot the animal from longer distances and thus get labeled as "Sniper" as was commented on this thread.

Being a long range shooter, I place a high degree of value on the ability to shoot and hit my tgt at ranges that many marksmen would claim is impossible. However, when hunting I rarely take a long shot for a variety of reasons. Some of my best hunting memories are from up close encounters. But, no matter how good I may place my first shot, the animal is going to be unpredictable. Some may charge even with the heart and both lungs shot to pieces. They are more likely to run away than at you but it can and does happen. In one bad experience I was surprised by a quarry which appeared unexpectedly forcing me to take an off-hand shot at a longer distance than I would have wanted. My shot was high/left on an animal which presented a frontal shot. The bullet choice was also poor. I was using a 270 ballistic tip in 130g and it fragmented doing some horrific damage to the upper shoulder and punctured one lung. I was using a CRF Mauser custom and as the wounded beast ran toward me I attempted three more followup shots as it approached and only hit with one of them which broke the front leg but did not drop the animal. My quarry ran past me at close range as I fired and missed the last shot. Being empty, I reloaded one into the mag and launched a final 5th shot downrange at the disappearing arse of my tgt. A very long tracking job thru thick brush was a lesson in the intelligence and toughness of some wild animals. After a few hours of tracking we found it dead about 600y away after dark. My personal performance was poor in this case. A variety of lessons were learned:
1) Frontal shots are more likely to fail since they cannot usually puncture both lungs and the heart with one shot. Avoids these if possible.
2) I failed to check zero on this hunt and the scope I was using was off causing me to hit high by several inches. This is the first and only time I did not check zero before hunting and I paid for it with a poorly placed 1st shot and a bunch of missed followups.
3) I need more practice on taking off hand shots under pressure.
4) With exception of varmint hunting the ballistic tip bullets are not the best choice for hunting larger game. They work OK on broadside shots but fragment and can fail to penetrate enough on other frontal or quartering shots. A better bonded soft point or Barnes type bullet is now my choice most times.
5) Lighter bullets are not usually the best choice for larger game. It took me a while to learn this.

Many years ago I went on my first DG hunt. It was in an undisclosed location. I shot my quarry with a perfect broadside shot with a 7.62x51mm (308) at very close range. It was an iron sight shot with an FAL from about 5ft range. The quarry did not flinch and I was stunned that such a close range and obviously well placed shot had no visible affect on my quarry. I could have (should have) fired two or three more times but was so surprised that I just watched as he ran away. He ran about 30y and died. Stone dead. He was dead after the shot but it took a few seconds for him to realize it. Lesson learned. If the quarry is still up and moving, keep shooting until it is not.

I am not a double gun hater. I do not own a DR due to the princely sum required to acquire one and my limited opportunity to use it. I do own a nice SxS shotgun and use it often. It is light, handy, accurate and for some situations it is great. I have taken hundreds of birds with it with only one memorable failure: A fast passing teal was in my sights. I only had about half a second to take my shot using steel pellet duck loads. Upon pulling the front trigger, my finger slipped back and also pulled the rear trigger a fraction of a second later. The double recoil caused the trigger guard to smash rear-ward into my right middle finger breaking the bone. This was over 30yr ago but it still hurts me to this day. I still use the sxs but have never had it happen again. I did kill the duck so, I guess it was a success? IMO it was an epic fail. Still, If I was going into tight bush after a client's wounded DG animal, I would want a DR over about anything else. For non-PH client hunters, I think the DR is not the best 1st choice most of the time except for ele or rhino. Different strokes.

JG26IRISH_2: You “broke your middle finger” shooting a SxS shotgun?? How powerful a shell were you shooting —-“or” how delicate are your fingers? A pretzel should’ve handled that recoil. By all means - avoid shooting a DG double rifle, you might not have an UNfractured bone left…..kidding - that’s a funny story and at least you HIT that duck !!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I have read this thread with interest. One item that comes to mind is this: Why is it rote that DG "should" be taken at close range? Several thoughts come to mind that may in part be the answer.
1) The big, slow cartridges that are most commonly in use on DG are not that accurate at ranges in excess of 50-100y when fired from iron sight rifles. A good 1st shot being paramount the PH guides the hunter in close.
2) The soft expanding bullets often used such as A-Frame or Barnes TSX will expand better at closer range due to faster velocity on impact.
3) The PH wants the hunter to get his/her money's worth and thus guides them in close to the buff/ele/other DG for the thrill.
4) Hunters have been castigated in Africa for wanting to shoot the animal from longer distances and thus get labeled as "Sniper" as was commented on this thread.

Well, maybe for any of your above listed reasons.
Perhaps one should consider that a large beast isn't really dangerous to oneself at long range, are they?
Add to that clients must pay trophy fees if they draw blood or the trackers see hair fly! Most of us that hunt Africa for plains and/or dangerous game want the animal dead right there for this and that an animal suffers less from a well placed shot.

Upon pulling the front trigger, my finger slipped back and also pulled the rear trigger a fraction of a second later. The double recoil caused the trigger guard to smash rear-ward into my right middle finger breaking the bone.

Ouch indeed! I guess I was lucky a decade ago when shooting my 8 gauge Parker DH shotgun loaded with 2 and 1/4 ounce shot in each barrel with muzzle velocities of 1150 fps. Yes I know, an ounce of shot would do it but doesn't own a 8 gauge antique for that!

My gunsmith had just finished restoring it and he joined me with my cannon for a tower shoot. When a pheasant flew directly overhead I swung up my 14 pounder and pulled the front trigger. I saw stars... WTF! The old Parker had doubled! My fingers were however uninjured. I continued to shoot and wouldn't you know it here came another overhead bird. You guessed it! She doubled once again and I then had a serious chat with my friend and gunsmith. He thought for a minute or two and concluded that due the size and weight of the hammers in that No. 5 Frame size Parker, that inertia had caused the second hammer to stay disengaged from the sear for a fraction of a second too long. Hammers can disengage from sears under recoil but in most cases they reengage prior to slipping. But, not in this case because shooting straight up the main part of the hammer was below the pivot point. Needless to say I left the Parker with my gunsmith friend for him to add weight to the second (left) trigger.

Shooterscalculator dot com lists the above load at 70+ foot pounds of energy. Both barrels won't double that since there are a couple milliseconds or more between shots. It was however a one-two punch faster than once could imagine!

Restored Parker DH 8 Gauge that I was once the caretaker of...

 

[Scott CWO]

“A good pilot is compelled to evaluate what's happened, so he can apply what he's learned.”

I believe this is the case with everything in life, otherwise you are not advancing. I reject the notion that because nobody was hurt that the buffalo charge was a complete success. Even the hunter in the video apologized to the PH. They did a lot of things correctly, just not everything. Nobody is perfect. We can still learn from their experience, as will they. Not saying I would have done better or worse. If I was the hunter, I would be evaluating why the rifle wouldn’t feed, whether short stroked or a sticky action. Operator error or mechanical? Usually the operator in the heat of battle.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

It’s a classic spinous process shot. Hit a spinous process, shocked the spinal cord, up again in seconds. Barring infection, it would have healed right up. A high shoulder shot will also cause the animal to drop, but it will damage important things and eventually kill the animal. Any time an animal drops to the shot, it is imperative to reload and get back on target right away and be ready to shoot again if it gets up.

This is prudent for any game animal.
Deer have been lost when the hunter thought they were dead, they got up & ran off.

 

[Gangsterofboats]

This is why I’m waiting 3 years before I go and do this. I have my rifle fully setup but I’m going to make dang sure everything about it is muscle memory if/when I get myself into this situation.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

JG26IRISH_2: You “broke your middle finger” shooting a SxS shotgun?? How powerful a shell were you shooting —-“or” how delicate are your fingers? A pretzel should’ve handled that recoil. By all means - avoid shooting a DG double rifle, you might not have an UNfractured bone left…..kidding - that’s a funny story and at least you HIT that duck !!

My hands and fingers are not exactly delicate. I am 6'2" and 200+ lbs, a blackbelt martial artist who was/is accustomed to breaking things with my hands instead of the other way round. Just for reference the recoil impulse from a 7.5lb 12ga shotgun loaded with high brass 2-3/4" waterfowl loads with 1.5 oz of shot amounts to 45 ft-lbs and that is with only one round shot. I shot both at the same time so the combined recoil is closer to 90 ft-lbs. By comparison the recoil from a 10lb rifle in 416 Rigby is about 58 ft-lbs and a 500NE with a 10lb rifle is about 85 ft-lbs. I am not all that recoil sensitive but when I shouldered the shotgun I was rushing due to the fast passing duck, I failed to get the gun firmly into the shoulder pocket and I pulled the trigger too hard/fast which allowed my finger to hit both triggers. Since the gun was not firmly against my shoulder it recoiled back further than it might otherwise and this let the trigger guard hit my middle finger pretty hard. It was only a cracked bone but I was unable to drive in New Jersey for 3 weeks while my middle finger healed up, lol

My post was sharing a few of my limited number of foul-ups over the years. Hunting is not target shooting and shi-stuff happens in the field and the best laid plans can and do go to Hell once the shooting starts. As hunters we are expected to hope and expect for the best but to plan and train for the worst so that when/if things go sideways, we are not surprised and have practiced what to do. Bullets perform a little different from animal to animal and some simply have an extraordinary will to live. We do have an obligation to the animal and our PH and his team to make a well placed first shot regardless of the distance and to know our own limitations so we are not tempted to take too long of a shot. To make as clean and ethical a kill as possible. But, we as hunters also should be evaluating our equipment and practices and to not let ourselves be overly influenced by tradition and past best practices which may no longer be the best practice today. Example:

100y ago when Teddy Roosevelt was trekking across Africa the common best practice for hunting large DG was to take a 12lb heavy double rifle loaded with hard jacketed solids or possibly a soft point if hunting lion. A gun bearer humped the rifle while the client walked along behind him. The PH may also have a DR or not but most of the time that was the case. Since these iron sighted DR's were not exactly tack drivers at 100y+ and seemed to get worse after shooting them a few times, the best practice was to get in close and make a good first and often a quick 2nd shot with the hand cannon. I think Teddy claimed that his double rifle would "Kill on one end and maim on the other". It was not that long ago that rifles such as Blaser did not exist.

Fast forward to 2024. Few if any of us have a gun bearer on hand these days. Modern bullets developed only in the last 40y such as Swift A-Frame and Barnes TSX have greatly enhanced the wounding potential from rifles such as the 375HH, 404J and 416 Rig which in the past might be classed as medium bore rifles. Add to that the improved penetration and larger permanent wound cavity from the newer cup point/hydro-shock type solids such as those from North Fork, Woodleigh and others which combined to make these medium bore rifles much more effective than they were in the past. A good bolt action in 375 or 416 statistically is more likely to achieve a one shot kill on say a Cape Buffalo bull than anything larger. Those are not my stats but they make sense. Plus in the last 40yrs a number of optics companies have developed true 1-power LPVO scopes like the Swarovski Z6i or Z8i which enable longer accurate shots and fast close up shooting. So, since we do not have a man to tote around our other rifle for us we have the option of choosing a quality mid-sized rifle loaded with the best available ammo and topped with a quality optic which can take both the DG animals that are smaller than a T-Rex and any of the plains game we may choose to bag out to about 3-4 hundred yards range depending on your own limitations. That does not take away from the more traditional hunters who choose to hunt with a iron sight bolt gun or a DR because they want to do it the same way old Teddy did or simply because they enjoy the challenge of that form of hunting. Some of us like to be different or like an element of added challenge. And, that is not a bad thing. I just think that we should evaluate our options and our choices and not claim that just because we used to do it one way many years ago, that the same practices are still the "Best Practice" today. It may be true sometimes but is not likely true all of the time.

Afterall, I used to drive a car with no seat belts, drum brakes and bias ply tires and 50y ago that was best practice. Today my car has seat and shoulder belts, air bags, 4-wheel anti-lock disk brakes, stability control and all wheel drive. I navigate with GPS instead of a Rand McNally map. The old 72 Mustang is fun but far from best practice. Many of the same type of evaluations could apply to big game hunting.

 

[crossone]

I suspect that is exactly what happened... it was jammed tight... there was no time to fuss with clearing it, so the rifle swap was made "gunbearer" style.... I have seen plenty of CRF get short stroked and jam two bullets in tight.

Ahhh! Yes, I jammed up my Winchester 338 Win while I was blasting at a brown bear. Luckily, I broke his front shoulders with the previous shot and he went down. I must have short stroked the bolt because my rifle was then firmly jammed, something that hadn't happened before and I didn't know how I had managed it.

Thanks!

Does anyone know of a practice or training regime to help prevent short stroking the bolt?

 

[HankBuck]

Ahhh! Yes, I jammed up my Winchester 338 Win while I was blasting at a brown bear. Luckily, I broke his front shoulders with the previous shot and he went down. I must have short stroked the bolt because my rifle was then firmly jammed, something that hadn't happened before and I didn't know how I had managed it.

Thanks!

Does anyone know of a practice or training regime to help prevent short stroking the bolt?

YES - pull the bolt All-the-way-back, fully rotate —then push all-the-way-forward…Fast & Hard (LIKE a MAN on his Wedding Night)…. Just kidding because I was flawless with my .375 H&H in well over 100 rounds of practice but ‘Short Stroked‘ after my 1st shot into a Grizz - Fortunately the Grizz dropped dead with 1st shot. I “think” the fact that my rifle only had a 3 round trap door mag AND I stuffed an extra round into the 3 round mag (after racking one in the chamber so that I’d have 3+1) contributed to it. But I’d done that successfully in practice: Load 3 in mag - rack round - open trap door and stuff a 3rd round in then carefully close mag. Would not attempt that again.

 

[VertigoBE]

Does anyone know of a practice or training regime to help prevent short stroking the bolt?

Only operate the bolt, after taking the rifle down from the shoulder. Then operate it like you are going to pull that bolt out of the action.

 

[hoytcanon]

Ahhh! Yes, I jammed up my Winchester 338 Win while I was blasting at a brown bear. Luckily, I broke his front shoulders with the previous shot and he went down. I must have short stroked the bolt because my rifle was then firmly jammed, something that hadn't happened before and I didn't know how I had managed it.

Thanks!

Does anyone know of a practice or training regime to help prevent short stroking the bolt?

The best method is to not tell yourself horror stories and watch bear maulings on YouTube before your bear hunt... as far as I can tell the sole contributing factor is anxiety induced rushing the moment. Talk yourself into a calm space.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Ahhh! Yes, I jammed up my Winchester 338 Win while I was blasting at a brown bear. Luckily, I broke his front shoulders with the previous shot and he went down. I must have short stroked the bolt because my rifle was then firmly jammed, something that hadn't happened before and I didn't know how I had managed it.

Thanks!

Does anyone know of a practice or training regime to help prevent short stroking the bolt?

I have tried to short stroke jam both my 404J Mauser 98 and Springfield 03A3. Haven't been able to make it happen. Both guns require the bolt to be fully retracted before the cartridge in magazine can be picked up by bolt head. And the ejector always kicks the empty case out before bolt is completely retracted. Perhaps if the gun is made with a one size fits all bottom metal magazine and short cartridges are used, they could be stacked too far forward in the box allowing the bolt to short stroke and pick up the next cartridge before the empty case is cycled out. I seat bullets in the cases of reloaded ammo for both guns so overall length is at factory spec. Magazines for both rifles are designed for OAL at factory spec. Consequently, there is no room for a short cartridge to be pushed significantly forward in the box by recoil. I would suggest anyone having trouble with short stroking should look at OAL of their ammo or adding a buffer inside the forward end of the mag box. I'm thinking this might be more of a problem with magnum length actions and cartridges that are not terribly magnum-ish?

 

[HankBuck]

I have tried to short stroke both my 404J Mauser 98 and Springfield 03A3. Haven't been able to make it happen. Both guns require the bolt to be fully retracted before the cartridge in magazine can be picked up by bolt head. And the ejector always kicks the empty case out before bolt is completely retracted. Perhaps if the gun is made with a one size fits all bottom metal magazine and short cartridges are used, they could be stacked too far forward in the box allowing the bolt to short stroke and pick up the next cartridge before the empty case is cycled out. I seat bullets in the cases of reloaded ammo for both guns so overall length is at factory spec. Magazines for both rifles are designed for OAL at factory spec. Consequently, there is no room for a short cartridge to be pushed significantly forward in the box by recoil. I would suggest anyone having trouble with short stroking should look at OAL of their ammo or adding a buffer inside the forward end of the mag box. I'm thinking this might be more of a problem with magnum length actions and cartridges that are not terribly magnum-ish?

Ontario that might help but if the Hunter is Not having any problems in practice - only under Hunting conditions then something else is at play. I can only remember short stroking a bolt action once (and I have 6 Bolt action rifles - 4 push and 2 CRF) but that “once” was when it really counted (after shooting Grizz).

 

[IvW]

Ahhh! Yes, I jammed up my Winchester 338 Win while I was blasting at a brown bear. Luckily, I broke his front shoulders with the previous shot and he went down. I must have short stroked the bolt because my rifle was then firmly jammed, something that hadn't happened before and I didn't know how I had managed it.

Thanks!

Does anyone know of a practice or training regime to help prevent short stroking the bolt?

The palm of hand cycling of the bolt makes it impossible to short stroke

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Ontario that might help but if the Hunter is Not having any problems in practice - only under Hunting conditions then something else is at play. I can only remember short stroking a bolt action once (and I have 6 Bolt action rifles - 4 push and 2 CRF) but that “once” was when it really counted (after shooting Grizz).

If the magazine box is excessively long or cartridge OAL excessively short,  recoil can potentially pitch the cartridges to the front which may leave the rim ahead of the ejector. Then there's a potential for short stroke. Because there's no recoil during practice when no live rounds are fired, there's no rearward energy to pitch the cartridges to the front of the box. Even at the range most of us with fixed magazines usually fire them single shot. I know I have never loaded a magazine at the range. Even my 760 Rem with detachable magazine is shot one round at a time at the range.

This is the reason reloaders are encouraged to crimp harsh recoil ammo, especially if it's used for dangerous game hunting.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I would really like to hear exactly what the PH was thinking when he said that was a “pretty good shot”. I have a pretty good idea, because I have been there many times before. The last thing a PH wants to do is ruin his clients moment of glory. Deep down inside they both know the shot was for crap. No different than when your wife says “do I look fat” as the two of you are going out for dinner on your tenth anniversary dinner. Your answer may determine your future.

Lon