thats why I dont like doubles (have one)

[Ontario Hunter]

View attachment 587495

Or instead of choosing between a double and a bolt action take a double bolt action

That might work ... does it come with a forklift?

 

[LEFOL SAFARIS]

That might work ... does it come with a forklift?

11 1/2 lbs I thought it will worth then that. After a day of caring that you don't need to go to the gym

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I just can't believe how much criticism there is.

I've been charged by quite a few animals, some I've handled perfectly and others not so much but still got lucky and then the one instance where I didn't get lucky and the animal got me.

All these people saying they should have done this and they should have done that, it doesn't really work that way when you have a giant animal running at you trying to kill you. Very easy to critisise sitting in the comfort of your lounge at home watching the video in perfect slow motion.

Both men handled the situation very well, yeah fumbled through a reload, and a bit of a jam on the bolt action, probably short stroked it a bit under pressure but no one was killed or even hurt.

I'd love to see all the armchair quarter backs do better.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Ontario Hunter in response to your point on shooting at paper with things vs buff or elephant Charging. I know what I can do with proper practice with which ever platform I will be using. I also know in my life that I have been in far worse situations than a buff or ele charge and know how to stand my ground. So my suggestion is I will work on my manual of arms for my double if that is what I am hunting DG with till I can reload running in the dark.

 

[SStomcat]

It is almost impossible to replicate a real life charge or situation. So what do you do, you have to practice to simulate the situation whether you do it on paper or a moving target or charging bull cutout, ultimately all have the same purpose i.e to prepare you to meet the real life situation as and when it arises. On the contrary imagine a situation where you land up to hunt DG with no practice.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

I just can't believe how much criticism there is.

I've been charged by quite a few animals, some I've handled perfectly and others not so much but still got lucky and then the one instance where I didn't get lucky and the animal got me.

All these people saying they should have done this and they should have done that, it doesn't really work that way when you have a giant animal running at you trying to kill you. Very easy to critisise sitting in the comfort of your lounge at home watching the video in perfect slow motion.

Both men handled the situation very well, yeah fumbled through a reload, and a bit of a jam on the bolt action, probably short stroked it a bit under pressure but no one was killed or even hurt.

I'd love to see all the armchair quarter backs do better.

With this logic any fighter pilot who gets his ass shot down did great. I dont think so. Debriefs have a purpose. Saying these guys did great when there are several obvious areas needing improvement serves no one. I have no doubt both of these guys would have plenty to say about what they could have done better and would likely welcome constructive criticism especially if they had missed something in their own analysis.

 

[pigsticker]

Client shoots at the buff at the point when it is essentially stopped facing away. The shot clearly hits the dirt high and to the left of the buff. Then it turns broadside to decide if it wants to dive back in the brush (and no one can shoot the easy shot ... out of ammo?) before turning and going after the PH. Can anyone pick out the PH's second shot? He seems to have an empty gun when the buff clears the brush initially?

I agree, the PH should not have told the client to take the first shot. Very sloppy! The other bull may easily have been wounded. I would expect a pass through if hit that high in the shoulder.

Its pretty obvious that other bull was hit, evidenced by his reaction.

 

[Foxi]

the reserve gunner has a scope on top again and that at 15 paces.................
But it takes courage to approach like this and hope that the shot will work

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

the reserve gunner has a scope on top again and that at 15 paces

If it is a true 1X at the lower magnification with an illuminated dot, good for him!

I have Trijicon SROs and RMR models mounted a third of the way down the barrels of doubles and a bolt action rifle. These are exponentially better than metallic sights for anyone who needs reading glasses. I remember Jack O'Connor writing 50 or 60 years ago that when a man needs reading glasses it's time for him to buy a riflescope. Great advice!

I also have Aimpoint H1s mounted on Accuracy X target 1911's and a Pardini .22 for NRA Precision Pistol competitions. When I compete in the US Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) matches for Service Pistol and International Pistol (.22) I am required to use metallic sights. For those I have shooting glasses made special with my focus on the front sights. The targets are blurry when wearing them. I am actually more "competitive" in CMP metallic sight matches than in NRA any sight matches. Go figure...

I have a lot of experience shooting Trijicon and Aimpoint reflex red dot type sights on pistols and dangerous game rifles. On the rifles, the reflex sights being very much smaller than a riflescope making carrying those rifles easier. I wrap my hand around the center of the action and start walking. Or, balance the rifle over my shoulder with the muzzle pointing to a little bit aft and a lot to the side. The reflex sight is on the other side on my neck. With a scoped rifle, sometimes the scope rubs and bites into my neck over the many miles tracking game.

Okay, I like, shoot, compete, and hunt with quality red dot reflex sights. On a bolt action rifle I prefer an illuminated low power variable optic (LPVO) riflescope with a true 1x at the lowest magnification.
Why you may ask?

1. A riflescope gathers light for a crisp, clear sight picture especially in low light conditions such as dawn, dusk, or in thick brush.

2. The opposite of the above riflescope, a reflex sight must reduce the available light to function. Why? They need a coating on the lens such as the tritium used by Trijicon. The red dot is reflected off the tritium coating to make it viable to the shooter. This reduces the amount (intensity) of light to the entrance pupil of the eye. Think of this as a F-stop on a camera lenses. The higher the number F-stop, the less light entering the camera. In most shooting conditions this doesn't matter. At dawn, dusk, and in thick brush it may, at least it has for me!

3. The illuminated dots within my Leupold, Trijicon, and Nightforce riflescopes have a lot of different intensity settings. They are also ALWAYS well defined perfect dots. My Trijicon reflex sights do have many adjustment setting but their dots are a little fuzzy to my eyes, with or without glasses.
My slightly larger Aimpoint H1s have more well defined red dots than my Trijicons. The H1s, and I assume the newer H2s have accurate elevation and windage adjustments. I would NEVER consider using one my my Trijicons in a Precision Pistol match. Never! Their dots are not as crisp as those in the Aimpoints, and the windage and elevation adjustments are not precise. The miniature reflex sights are great for action pistol competition and for those desiring a reflex sight on a carry gun.
I mounted a Aimpoint on a saddle mount on my Blaser S2 double rifle. It's a great zero to 200 yard setup. I prefer a quick release (QR) scope on this rifle because it is so accurate. The Aimpoint however is small and doesn't weight but a few ounces.

4. The riflescopes have magnification. Of course they do! For fine work a 1x to 4x, or 6x, or 8x scope will allow the shooter to increase magnification and make more accurate shots through brush than an unmagnified reflex sight. Also the light defusing coating of tritium on the lenses on reflex sights does not help in these situations. How much magnification one needs is up to them.

Jack O'Connor recommended, before variable scopes were dependable, mounting a 2x or 3x scope on a rifle for an African safari. Back when I was a kid, about 50 years ago, a 4x scope on a .30-06 could in the hands of a good shot, take woodchucks out to 200 yards! That's what we did on summer evenings in Potter County, Pennsylvania. It was good practice! A 1-4X quality riflescope should be sufficient in the hands of a skilled marksman. If you can afford a high quality, higher magnification range scope, then buy once , cry once!

5. Rifle handling is to most experienced shooters feels better without a scope attached to the rifle. This is especially true of mounting a scope on a double rifle. The scope adds about 20 ounces or more compared to a reflex sight that adds about 3 ounces. That extra pound may turn your prize London best into a fencepost. The same 3 ounce reflex sight on bolt action DGR for close range will provide better handling characteristics than adding an extra pound or half kilo of riflescope. One has to determine their requirements and select the best option for them.

6. Finally, I prefer quick release (QR) scope mounts. "There's nothing tougher than a Talley" is Talley's tag line. As long as one properly installs Talley or other quality QR rings and carefully reattaches their scope, they will not have problems. Rumors of QR causing problems point to operator error in reattaching the scope. Okay, I admit I did that once when reattaching a scope in my shop... Looking through the scope into the old Bushnell collimator showed a WFT! I looked again and discovered my operator error. It can happen! Practice everything we may do in the field until it becomes ingrained in our subconscious!

 

[Philip Glass]

Phillip - I actually used a 500 gr TSX for my 1st shot - a frontal hit in the chest as Buff was facing me at 75 yrds and standing in middle of a herd - but clear from other buff. Herd ran off, i reloaded w/solids, removed scope from my .470NE double, we walked up in the chest high grass to the spot - No Buff, THEN he stood up 20 feet behind me…PH yelled “don’t shoot” (I had a clear standing shot @ 20 feet) then buff ran off and presented No Shot. We tracked blood for 4 hours, jumped him twice in thick bush within 50 feet - but couldn’t even see his outline. One of the staff waiting in the truck later told us he saw buff walk by, head down and badly hurt…but we Never recovered, looked for vultures for two days and No luck. PH told me later reason he yelled “don’t shoot” was he wasn’t certain it was same buff - didn’t want 2 wounded buff in the tall grass cover?? I should’ve made a better 1st shot anyway but I always thought that I had a chance to put “2 more in him” and that would’ve helped recover him.

So sorry to hear that story. We all learn from our experiences. I hope you can go back after buff soon.

 

[HankBuck]

With this logic any fighter pilot who gets his ass shot down did great. I dont think so. Debriefs have a purpose. Saying these guys did great when there are several obvious areas needing improvement serves no one. I have no doubt both of these guys would have plenty to say about what they could have done better and would likely welcome constructive criticism especially if they had missed something in their own analysis.

Thomas Rutledge: Remember, Chuck Yeager got shot down, guess he didn’t practice enough or wasn’t that good? as have some of the greatest fighter pilots that ever served — you used a poor analogy —- but I get your point: We can never be too prepared. I believe that “Perfection is the enemy of Excellence“ — these hunters & PH did an “excellent” job. Once things went sideways - They accomplished the main goal - they SURVIVED a spontaneous life-threatening situation and with minimal injury….many others might Not have (possibly even some ‘experts’ on this forum). So many seem to watch the video and see failures and might feel their skills would’ve been Superior, I watched that video and felt Inferior.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I watched the video. Realized my own areas of improvement needed and stepped up my practice.

Watching a video that had no issues, and all went perfectly would not have driven me to practice. As this video has done.

if all we watched were perfect scenarios. I think we would be overconfident and underprepared

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

Thomas Rutledge: Remember, Chuck Yeager got shot down, guess he didn’t practice enough or wasn’t that good? as have some of the greatest fighter pilots that ever served — you used a poor analogy —- but I get your point: We can never be too prepared. I believe that “Perfection is the enemy of Excellence“ — these hunters & PH did an “excellent” job. Once things went sideways - They accomplished the main goal - they SURVIVED a spontaneous life-threatening situation and with minimal injury….many others might Not have (possibly even some ‘experts’ on this forum). So many seem to watch the video and see failures and might feel their skills would’ve been Superior, I watched that video and felt Inferior.

The analogy was correct. Yeager would have debriefed his being shot down extensively and had open discussions about it to add to the list of lessons learnt in fighter combat. In life or death endeavors this should be standard practice.

 

[HankBuck]

I watched the video. Realized my own areas of improvement needed and stepped up my practice.

Watching a video that had no issues, and all went perfectly would not have driven me to practice. As this video has done.

if all we watched were perfect scenarios. I think we would be overconfident and underprepared

Altitude, very well stated and agree we don’t learn as much when everything goes well or as planned. Plus the video reminds us of the inherent “risk” in hunting DG - eventually something can go wrong and Not be prevented and that’s what we must “accept” on a DG Hunt… Otherwise it would be called BG (Boring Game Hunting)

 

[HankBuck]

The analogy was correct. Yeager would have debriefed his being shot down extensively and had open discussions about it to add to the list of lessons learnt in fighter combat. In life or death endeavors this should be standard practice.

Thomas Rutledge: You are “dodging“ and Now changing your theme — skillfully enough that No Buffalo could ever stick a horn in You. No one suggests that you don’t review an accident but here the point of contention is that these Hunters handled this well, better then many would have (Not perfect because “perfect” does Not exist). Now here is an Outstanding analogy: In the Movie TOP GUN, Maverick goes into a “flat spin” crashes and costs the life of his CoPilot “Goose” but after a careful review he is “Cleared” and held Blameless. So I’m “clearing” these Hunters & PH under that same technical standard “Sh-t Happens”. What do you think of My analogy ? (Your choices are: Perfect, Good, or Too Stupid to Respond)

 

[LEFOL SAFARIS]

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The guy's selfie at the hospital needs to be flipped as the injury was to right shoulder per the other image taken by someone else showing right arm in sling. Why do phones do that when taking selfies?

 

[SStomcat]

the reserve gunner has a scope on top again and that at 15 paces.................
But it takes courage to approach like this and hope that the shot will work

Well you have 2 DR there the Ph Jeff Rann with a H&H 577 nitro, the hunter also in a DR min 500 ne and the reserve gunner in a bolt. Thats lot of firepower, but yes it takes some courage and concentration to be able to shoot like that. The hunter is testing/representing Federal ammunition so he better be good and experienced...

 

[375Fox]

The analogy was correct. Yeager would have debriefed his being shot down extensively and had open discussions about it to add to the list of lessons learnt in fighter combat. In life or death endeavors this should be standard practice.

Who would have been invited to that debrief? Some of the comments here are from individuals who have no relevant experience just a belief they would have done better in the situation. There is a big difference getting critiqued by professionals vs criticized by amateurs.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The guy's selfie at the hospital needs to be flipped as the injury was to right shoulder per the other image taken by someone else showing right arm in sling. Why do phones do that when taking selfies?

Sometimes I don't know my right from left. His left arm is in sling, right shoulder shown injured in selfie.