SOUTH AFRICA: Question For Tootabi Hunting Safaris

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

genuinely feel that Loodt make an honest mistake. He's a young man and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and put it down to over-eagerness. From his posts and comments from other members he seems like a helpful bloke. But what he did was wrong and pretending that he it wasn't isn't doing our industry any good whatsoever. He'll learn from it and bounce back stronger than ever.

150% spot on

 

[death-from-above]

I am nowhere near you guys when it comes to knowing the ins and outs of outfitting in Africa. I have been quietly keeping up with the threads concerning this situation , and feel the need to respond in a positive manner.
It seems to me that Loodt has made a mistake or two , this has been established over and over. What I want to bring to light is something that was told to me as a young man , and has helped me after some of my own mistakes. "The measure of a man should not be in the mistakes he makes , but in how he handles the responsibility of his mistakes."
Let's be patient and wait for him to bring us to light on the facts of the situation. In the meantime , let's talk about the many positive things that make this forum the great place it is ...
Cheers,
T.J.

 

[ChrisT]

What surprised you?

Well, given some of the responses on this thread I thought I should rather stay out of this but seeing you asked here goes...

I am surprised by the choice of name for this particular "safari company". I am surprised that someone would use a name very similar to that of his neighbor (who is a registered Outfitter and who has legally registered the name of his safari company) to start marketing safaris on his own behalf... Don't know that I'd be too happy if my neighbor started marketing himself as Chris Troskie Hunting Safaris knowing full and well that this is very similar to the legally registered name of my company... In the same sense I don't know if Buzz Charlton would be happy if I started marketing Charlton McCallum Safaris South Africa or Charlton McCallum African Safaris for that matter?

I am surprised that the same person would run a website stating that they have years of experience in the safari industry when truth reveals that he is neither a registered Outfitter nor a Professional Hunter. Quite frankly; I am at a loss to understand how anyone can gain "years of experience in the safari industry" if he has never been registered as Hunting Outfitter, never passed a PH Course and never acted as a PH...

I am surprised that the same person portrayed himself over here on AH and also on his website as a Hunting Outfitter. On the face of things and by his own admission this was a lie.

And I am surprised to see how many folks are sticking up for the same person - because he seems to be a "good guy".

I am also surprised to see how those who have spoken out against all of this are being crucified...

To reply to some other comments...

A PH Course is not about being taught "not to sell cheap hunts", although you are typically advised to keep your prices market related... There are reasons for this - more than one - but I will try to stay on topic and refrain from elaborating.... Cheap hunts don't work in the long run - as simple as that. And by this I am not implying that the individual in question was selling "cheap hunts" (although I think that $3,800 for a Springbok Slam is kinda "cheap" but then again - $10,000 for a proper Cape Buffalo Hunt is kinda cheap as well so I'm to blame too in this regard...)

One of the primary subjects taught during a PH Course is that of the relevant Game Laws for the Province that you want to register in. This is crucially important as - if you want to conduct a hunt legally - you need to know the Game Laws (or "Ordinances" as they are called over here). This is one of the reasons why foreign hunters need to be accompanied by a PH when they hunt and one of the reasons why hunts must be booked via licensed Outfitters (who typically have also passed their PH Exams and are up to date with legislation)... During the same course, students are taught that only licensed Outfitters may market themselves and their hunting opportunities to foreigners according to the Law... This is not a PHASA Law nor is it a PH/Outfitters' Law. This is the Law if our Country.

Unfortunately many South Africans don't even know the Ordinances applicable to their own Provinces. Many still think that a letter of permission from the Landowner is sufficient for them to legally hunt on a property and many do not know that special licenses or permits are required to hunt certain species of game.

So in the end... YES - it is about $$$ but not $$$ in the way that some have portrayed it.

The "above board" Outfitters (and I'd like to include myself in this category) who have commented on this thread did not necessarily do so because they feel threatened by others who offer lower rates OR because they are after the money...

The question that you have to ask yourself is whether you want to incur the $$$ of travelling to another country, spend $$$ there, later find out that your hunt was conducted illegally and then be told that you cannot get your trophies back because of it?

 

[BRICKBURN]

Well, given some of the responses on this thread I thought I should rather stay out of this but seeing you asked here goes...

I am surprised by the choice of name for this particular "safari company". I am surprised that someone would use a name very similar to that of his neighbor (who is a registered Outfitter and who has legally registered the name of his safari company) to start marketing safaris on his own behalf... Don't know that I'd be too happy if my neighbor started marketing himself as Chris Troskie Hunting Safaris knowing full and well that this is very similar to the legally registered name of my company... In the same sense I don't know if Buzz Charlton would be happy if I started marketing Charlton McCallum Safaris South Africa or Charlton McCallum African Safaris for that matter?

I am surprised that the same person would run a website stating that they have years of experience in the safari industry when truth reveals that he is neither a registered Outfitter nor a Professional Hunter. Quite frankly; I am at a loss to understand how anyone can gain "years of experience in the safari industry" if he has never been registered as Hunting Outfitter, never passed a PH Course and never acted as a PH...

I am surprised that the same person portrayed himself over here on AH and also on his website as a Hunting Outfitter. On the face of things and by his own admission this was a lie.

And I am surprised to see how many folks are sticking up for the same person - because he seems to be a "good guy".

I am also surprised to see how those who have spoken out against all of this are being crucified...

To reply to some other comments...

A PH Course is not about being taught "not to sell cheap hunts", although you are typically advised to keep your prices market related... There are reasons for this - more than one - but I will try to stay on topic and refrain from elaborating.... Cheap hunts don't work in the long run - as simple as that. And by this I am not implying that the individual in question was selling "cheap hunts" (although I think that $3,800 for a Springbok Slam is kinda "cheap" but then again - $10,000 for a proper Cape Buffalo Hunt is kinda cheap as well so I'm to blame too in this regard...)

One of the primary subjects taught during a PH Course is that of the relevant Game Laws for the Province that you want to register in. This is crucially important as - if you want to conduct a hunt legally - you need to know the Game Laws (or "Ordinances" as they are called over here). This is one of the reasons why foreign hunters need to be accompanied by a PH when they hunt and one of the reasons why hunts must be booked via licensed Outfitters (who typically have also passed their PH Exams and are up to date with legislation)... During the same course, students are taught that only licensed Outfitters may market themselves and their hunting opportunities to foreigners according to the Law... This is not a PHASA Law nor is it a PH/Outfitters' Law. This is the Law if our Country.

Unfortunately many South Africans don't even know the Ordinances applicable to their own Provinces. Many still think that a letter of permission from the Landowner is sufficient for them to legally hunt on a property and many do not know that special licenses or permits are required to hunt certain species of game.

So in the end... YES - it is about $$$ but not $$$ in the way that some have portrayed it.

The "above board" Outfitters (and I'd like to include myself in this category) who have commented on this thread did not necessarily do so because they feel threatened by others who offer lower rates OR because they are after the money...

The question that you have to ask yourself is whether you want to incur the $$$ of travelling to another country, spend $$$ there, later find out that your hunt was conducted illegally and then be told that you cannot get your trophies back because of it?

That is what I asked for. Thanks Chris.

 

[enysse]

A lot wisdom Chris, excellent post!

 

[Hank2211]

This thread at times showed signs of getting out of hand - becoming more like some of the other on-line forums in terms of tone. Thanks, Chris, for the comprehensive and polite reply. It's this kind of post that keeps me coming back to AH.

 

[Big5]

. . . . . I am surprised to see how many folks are sticking up for the same person - because he seems to be a "good guy".

. . . . . The question that you have to ask yourself is whether you want to incur the $$$ of travelling to another country, spend $$$ there, later find out that your hunt was conducted illegally and then be told that you cannot get your trophies back because of it?

Well said. Those two sentences alone express my feelings on the matter.

 

[SHOEDOG]

Well said. Those two sentences alone express my feelings on the matter.

I totally agree

 

[Rob404]

Great Post Chris,,You and PHs like you give us First timers confidence

 

[RogerHeintzman]

Man if this was not a drag out, knock down issue. Still a good issue to keep us on our toes of what can and does happen in the world of entrepreneurship.

I am, shall I say a casualty in this circumstance. I was a click away from booking a hunt with Loodt after my return to Joburg from Zimbabwe buffalo hunting.

My comfort level was greatly diminished and I stepped away from the hunt with great apprehension.

I was amazed at the responses I received from AH outfitters who wanted to help. They bent over backwards to accommodate me with the offer made by Loodt. Most offers were on the money. One outfitter was able to accommodate the Lioness and Copper Springbuck (to finish my slam) in the SAME area, no traveling back and forth, no quotas issues, etc. Needless to say, MY deposit has been made and another great adventure (Dream) will be relived again this August in Africa with Hartzview Hunting Safaris.

I want to thank all the AH outfitters for their thoughtfulness, offers and contributions to this great site!!


"A dream can be relived, again and again in Africa."

 

[enysse]

Good call, to go with Hartzview.

 

[Buff-Buster]

My dad use to tell me, "Son - don't get your cart before the horse. Just slow down a bit". Looks like Loodt's horse is gaining on the cart.....lol

 

[BRICKBURN]

My dad use to tell me, "Son - don't get your cart before the horse. Just slow down a bit". Looks like Loodt's horse is gaining on the cart.....lol
.......

 

[Royal27]

Well, it sure seems to me that this is just further proof that an honest mistake was made and it is now being corrected. Good for Loodt, and the industry.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Well done in a while outfitter to follow?...

My best always

 

[billc]

On the right track now to do good things in the future.Hope this shows honest mistakes can be made right and not everything is done by people on purpose.Great job loodt

 

[tarbe]

You have my support and congratulations as well Loodt.

Focus on doing the right things for the right reasons and all will be well with your soul.


Tim

 

[Norwegianwoods]

Well done.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

This thread at times showed signs of getting out of hand - becoming more like some of the other on-line forums in terms of tone. Thanks, Chris, for the comprehensive and polite reply. It's this kind of post that keeps me coming back to AH.

I beg to differ.. replies were concise and to the point and addressed the legality of the matter, the fact as Chris stated above that it was played down by many members came as quite a surprise.

You also need to keep in mind that as an outfitter you would get upset if you were competing against illegality.

None of the outfitters that posted on this thread play the price game, so it was not a question of being threatened.

I am happy for Loodt that he has no acquired his ph license, but let's not forget that a outfitters license is a requirement by law, to legally operate a safari company

My best always.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I beg to differ.. replies were concise and to the point and addressed the legality of the matter, the fact as Chris stated above that it was played down by many members came as quite a surprise.

You are a contrarian.

Played down by "many" members?! I now suspect your trophy estimating skills.

I think that the events being "played down" was about the "relationship" that was built. Perhaps Stockholm syndrome.

I am happy for Loodt that he has no acquired his ph license, but let's not forget that a outfitters license is a requirement by law, to legally operate a safari company. ..........

Freudian Slip Jaco? Perhaps you meant "Now acquired a PH License,...
In fact, that paper is the certificate for passing the PH course, NOT a license!
Nature conservation will still have to issue a license after a proper application and fees have been paid.

Details, details...

As you point out, there is still the matter of an Outfitters Permit/License being acquired before hunts can be legally offered/promoted.

That will be up to Nature Conservation!