Same outfitter or try something new?

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

As a starter in my experience this is mostly a web based discussion and tendency due to the high concentration of outfitters available on a semi (or lower than normal personal basis) in the industry hunters tend to stick to operations,

I believe in building up relationships (my life style) I have clients that have hunted with me for 13 years we have hunted all over Africa and South Africa, each trip is like a reunion of old friends.
Talk to your outfitter hear what he has for resources.
One of the largest reasons I stopped hunting in Zim is because I had so little under my control, and for one in many cases the camps were not run to my standard and my clients are not treated the way I would treat them.

Hence our expansion into Moz in which I am licensed as well. This all because of clients demand.
This year I will be heading back to Tanzanis (Kilwa) due to a long standing friends wish to hunt Tanzania again.

I get why some hunters go to different outfitters, in some cases it pricing.... But as a client I would be hard pressed to jump from place to place, IMO it is a case of sooner or later you're going to set your self up for a miserable time, I had clients who did so and ended up coming back.

My best always

 

[ActionBob]

After my first hunt I definitely wanted to go back with that same PH, Mark. And I met another PH there, Tyson and really hit it off with so would go with him if our guy was not available... What I really want to do is go back with my wife and brother and sister-in-law and mix it up with both of those PH's. Hunt with my wife and some days hunt with my brother and let the ladies go together. I don't have a lot of low end animals left to hunt in those areas so I think it would work out well as my brother and his wife might want to take those mid to low priced species and we can go after the ones we don't have yet. We would just need to pool tips and keep everyone happy and I think that would be easy. Only problem is my brother is not ready to go yet.

Andrew also has several different areas and camps and we only made it to two.. So we can go again and hunt entirely different areas!

I also got along well and respect the outfitter, Andrew Pringle of Crusader Safaris. Had a chance to talk to Andrew in Dallas and looked at the list of animals he has available. We can easily take another safari with them and take all different species from what we have already. Andrew is young but very professional and I trust he will be there when my brother is ready.

On the other hand, there are several other outfitters offering better deals (slightly) and many I would like to hunt with. But when I remember our trip with Crusader, I never think of the cost unless someone asks. However it is a deal that gets the attention to draw me to look at another outfit.

On our second trip, it was just that. A deal and a whole different area, animal (elephant), country and completely different experience. And Mark (our first PH) is licensed and interested in only PG. So not an option for DG. In fact he never carried a gun rather carrying sticks himself. I would say he was much more tuned in to PG where the other PH was really tuned in on elephant. Just simply different. Both experiences that enriched our lives! Very glad to have had the opportunity for both.

Now we are booked for a 3rd trip with yet another outfit and actually to split between two PH's! A week with each. This was because of scheduling conflicts and how we worked it out... I see it as an opportunity to have different experiences. This is again through necessity when looking for a lion hunt, neither of the other's can provide what I was looking for. And I got a great reference from a board member on this outfit being top notch!

So yea, both! Go elsewhere but also do not hesitate to repeat if you had a great time and especially if you can get to different locals and species.

 

[JTEX]

Hi Hunting4sanity

Have you thought about hunting species in their natural habitat where they actually ARE from? For example hunting Bushbuck in the Cape, Springbuck & Gemsbuck in the Kalahari...

That's the way I am looking at it! South Africa is great but with all the game ranching and moving animals everywhere it kinda puts me off. I don't want to shoot a Lechwe in the East Cape. Or a buff in the Kalahari.

We are all different

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

it is going to vary from client to ckient you get outfitters that manage to hold on to they're clients and then you get hunters that jump around.

The latter being in the minoroty and a foreign concept to myself, especially if you are registered in multiple provinces...

My best always

 

[Diamondhitch]

Hi Hunting4sanity

Have you thought about hunting species in their natural habitat where they actually ARE from? For example hunting Bushbuck in the Cape, Springbuck & Gemsbuck in the Kalahari...

This is exactly what I try to do. Not all species are hunted in the right place but as many as possible are. This also opens up a lot of low fence options as well.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

What would be the difference between a oryx shot in Cumberland and a Oryx shot in Bray?

I understand particular species such as springbuck, and black wildebeest but that's about it....
I see no need to jump around, it is a internet based fashion IMO.

Many outfitters and/or PH's are lisenced in multiple provinces and countries. As a client I would keep on hunting with a guide that has been loyal to myself if as a client I felt like a small fish in a big pond I would probably move along swiftly...

My best

 

[Jacques.strauss]

Hi Jaco

If that's the case then, why not just hunt in ranches on Texas where you can shoot a Oryx there? It would definitely save you daily rates, air fare etc. There is no difference between an Oryx here & there.... But to hunt an animal in it's natural area just seems like the right thing to do.

In my opinion it gives you the opportunity to see more of the country and experience new things. It's part of the fun...

Regards
Jacques

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Jacques,
Bray and Cumberland are 400km apart and looks the same the entire band stretching along the molopo to the marico and continued onto the limpopo is exactly the same terrain, grass, camel thorns, black thorns and habitat, with minimal soil variation.

If we truly want we can pull the duck out from underneath the pond...

I understand lechwe, blackwildebeest beest (which Namibia has now) and springbuck.

But the rest is so established in many cases since the early 80's that it does not matter.

Ps you can shoot an oryx there also a kudu you must just be willing to pay for it.

My best

 

[jeffpg]

Yes as a service to fellow hunters we would like to learn from your experience. Did you book directly or through a agent? Sorry that a dream hunt went so wrong!

I did book through a agent who also happens to be a great guy and a personal friend of mine. The aftermath from the outfitters massive failure has no doubt caused some hurdles in our agent/client relationship, but we are both working towards putting a decent ending to this sad saga.

I will say that as a hunter, the only way that I will officially endorse a PH or outfitter 100%, is after I have personally spent a substantial amount of time hunting with them as a client. That is the only way to really know for sure exactly what goes on with them.

In my personal opinion, any hunting agent who is representing a outfit to a client should attempt to do the same.

 

[BRICKBURN]

...............
Ps you can shoot an oryx there also a kudu you must just be willing to pay for it.
...

You can hunt almost anything down there, for a price. Somehow hunting Kudu in Texas does not compute.

A buddy is hunting in Texas as I write this. He is supposed to be chasing Ibex.
On this Ibex hunt he has now shot a pig and is now looking at a Dall's sheep to stalk today.
Does not compute for me.

 

[sierraone]

Hello Mr. 16 gauge,

Yes I complained to Cabela's, by phone, email and the hand written questionnaire included in the package deal that I had bought on that first safari of mine.
In each, I opened my complaint with making it extremely clear; I did not want anything except acknowledgement that they needed to have a closer look at "Burchell Safaris" before sending any more beginners like me over there.

No response to any of it.

The man at Cabela's who actually booked it for me was named Russell Selle and he never did return my two calls or respond to my emails or my written information, nobody did.
Last I heard of "Burchell Safaris" was that they had folded under a hail storm of law suits from angry clients.
Even though my wife is a Lawyer, (she writes contracts - definitely not a defense lawyer or ambulance chaser) I'm too lazy to have joined the legal fray.
Besides, I did get some hunting in and the only real financial loss is from them obviously doing their own taxidermy, as my sculls and skins were pretty much ruined by whatever chemical bath they soaked everything in.
And they obviously dummied up a fake Taxidermist license / export permit number, because that is one of the corner stone complaints in the law suits filed against those crooked bastards.
I have kept the ruined items as conversation pieces but they are in my garage instead of in my man cave, because they still have a bit of an odor, even after almost 13 years now.

In other news, I am totally with you on not worrying about record book animals.
For me, tape measures are perfect for carpentry and similar projects, not much else.
Hunters who agonize over "gold medal" this and "silver medal" that, a half inch here and a centimeter there must be miserable half the time.
I just like to go hunting, in fact most of the deer and caribou I have shot, have been does, cows, spike bucks, fork horn bucks, half grown bulls and such (and I have shot a pile of both over my life).
Now and then I have shot a big male and kept the antlers but have never measured any of them, because "scoring" mean nothing to me and I truly mean nothing.

Other than culling in Africa (which I have done) the PHs have put me on some fine animals but, I cannot tell you what any of them measure, except that I think the PH told me the buffalo in my avatar was a bit over 42 inches, if my memory serves me correctly for once.
The reason this is familiar to me is because he seemed very excited about this measurement.
But, one of my Alaskan friends here thinks it's closer to 44 inches.
Seems like the PH is likely more accurate but who cares, not me.
I would have preferred one with a single horn anyway, as a result of fighting other bulls.
And what would that have measured, perhaps 24 inches? - LOL.

Also, like yourself I am but a simple working man and therefore must be careful not to over-spend.
I have my retirement pension from a completed career, plus I am a Security Guard and my wife is retired as well but now on her 2nd career.
However, she racked up a huge student loan (over $150,000.) plus, we recently bought a new house (new old house).
Not to mention that one of our two cars is about to give up the ghost and so, even though we both have steady incomes, we do not have huge incomes and definitely don't have money to burn.

"Cast down thy tape measure and look not upon the Record Book, for by this thou shalt free thyself from the great shackles and heavy chain of meaningless data."

Regards,
Velo Dog.

There you go again, I only asked what time is it! But still a great post!

 

[Bos en Dal SAFARIS]

Great topic and i kinda agree with Jaco and Louis!

For us Outfitters and PH it is nice to see old friends again when they are in a returning hunt! Give your outfitter the oppertunity to arrange your next hunt in a different area if you enjoyed hunting with him!! If the opposite is true feel free to look at a different outfitter as there are many good opperatations and people out there!!

Good luck and enjoy your trip

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

You can hunt almost anything down there, for a price. Somehow hunting Kudu in Texas does not compute.

A buddy is hunting in Texas as I write this. He is supposed to be chasing Ibex.
On this Ibex hunt he has now shot a pig and is now looking at a Dall's sheep to stalk today.
Does not compute for me.

Agreed, it does not compute for me either but neither does traveling to the Kalahari to hunt a oryx when there are vast numbers of them in limpopo, from whence on can hunt mature males from sustainable established breeding herds.

I understand lechwe, springbuck, black wildebeest due to the fact that they don't adapt and those who do have them in marginal areas only have males, for this very reason and focus on turn over on animals
But that's just me.

Point is an established outfitter has access to multiple areas in the country and there should be no reason to move away from him unless you have been let down.

Just my opinion and I indrrstand that many might not agree.

My best

 

[Diamondhitch]

...Point is an established outfitter has access to multiple areas in the country and there should be no reason to move away from him unless you have been let down...

There is a lot to be said for a good PH and friend, there is a much to be said for seeing the world as well. After all it is a very big place.

 

[hunting4sanity]

I'm still enjoying all of your responses to my question. After looking at A.Dahlgren's hunting report about Pakistan here on AH, I went and looked at his website where I found this quote, “The world is a book, and those who don't travel only read one page.” St. Augustine. I'm not quite ready for Pakistan, but I think I want to see a new part of Africa, even if it's still in South Africa. I'll see what my former PH has to offer and go from there, but I need to see more pages in the world's book.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

There is a lot to be said for a good PH and friend, there is a much to be said for seeing the world as well. After all it is a very big place.

True very true especially seeing it with a trusted ph.
As said earlier it is a foreign concept to me and I believe it's an Internet based trend (jumping from outfit to outfit) I have multiple clients that has hunted with me for 10 + years and some for 15 I have hunted all over south and the entire Southern Africa with most.

There are varying approaches I tend to build relationships especially with those I trust. Many of my clients do the same and still see Africa, and we get to experience it side by side.


Just this past season I had two relatively new friends/hunters that tried something different and got burnt they're back this year.

I guess it depends on the type of person one is everyone's different.

My best

 

[jeff]

I have friends but I still like to make new ones, some I've met in the last few years have become great hunting partners.

 

[Diamondhitch]

True very true especially seeing it with a trusted ph.
As said earlier it is a foreign concept to me and I believe it's an Internet based trend (jumping from outfit to outfit) I have multiple clients that has hunted with me for 10 + years and some for 15 I have hunted all over south and the entire Southern Africa with most.

There are varying approaches I tend to build relationships especially with those I trust. Many of my clients do the same and still see Africa, and we get to experience it side by side.


Just this past season I had two relatively new friends/hunters that tried something different and got burnt they're back this year.

I guess it depends on the type of person one is everyone's different.

My best

This would be ideal but I imagine the extra cost of bringing your own PH into other countries and other outfitter areas is more than most can justify, unless they already have an arrangement with outfitters in those countries I guess? as an agent that also is licenced to do the guiding?

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I have overcome this problem by being licensed in Moz, I am in tete, as well as Niassa and hold quota to the areas, as well as multiple other provinces in South Africa, a license in Tanzania is $6k so no obstacle there either (should I elect to operate there again)
Zim I got cheated so I refuse to go there.....Namibia I only use to hunt Leopard as SA has more variety, But Moz solved this problem for me and I prefer to hunt my own clients as I am set in certain things.

Hey as mentioned earlier the jump here and there system, is a relatively new thing and I believe more internet based,....it is a new system of marketing and has brought forward a entire new system in clients picking outfitters.

Prices are more competitive on the net than any other floor, so hence my theory as above.

Yes I might be stuck in the old days but it works for me, from hunters that have hunted with myself and left...... it did not work that well following the jump here and there system and we always hunt together again....so in my experience it is not what many make it out to be.

I learnt from an old selous scout major..... He always said.... You hunt with me once.... You'll hunt with me again....
Everyday I hunt with a client I work especially hard to hold true to this theory.

(I have two safaris set up with mayo oldiri for early 2016 on clients demand, and I'll be guiding.)

I believe that that is the exact reason why my clients come back even after hunting other countries with other outfitters.

It's legal and it works.

My best always

 

[jeff]

What animals are commonly hunted that are introduced in S.A. and Namibia? I know that gemsbok in the EC, and I think blesbok in Kwazu Natal. I hunted black wildebeest and blesbok in northern Limpopo at Bushmans Safaris that were both sustainable breeding populations that were introduced. I see that some Namibia outfits have blesbok and black wildebeest. What else , it gets confusing? I hunted sable in Limpopo is it native to the area?