Same outfitter or try something new?

[ScottG]

I can see the trust factor. Spending that much hard earned money going back somewhere you are comfortable with can be important. Doing your dudilagence is probably key. Referrals, from outfitters you hunted with or trust is probably the best way to start.

 

[CAustin]

The trust factor is big for everyone. If you have an outfitter you trust from your last hunt it is hard to break that connection. Doesn't mean there will not be another hunt someday with that first outfitter if you make the choice to go elsewhere with another . In my case I gave been on two hunts with the same outfitter and PH and I really like them!
The question has already been put.....what do you want to see and where do you want to go? What animals do you want to take? At some point venturing into new territory is a great idea.

 

[Hank2211]

The trust factor is big for everyone. If you have an outfitter you trust from your last hunt it is hard to break that connection. Doesn't mean there will not be another hunt someday with that first outfitter if you make the choice to go elsewhere with another . In my case I gave been on two hunts with the same outfitter and PH and I really like them!
The question has already been put.....what do you want to see and where do you want to go? What animals do you want to take? At some point venturing into new territory is a great idea.

Agree completely that venturing into new territory is a great idea. In fact, it's a necessary idea. My point was that often you can do that with someone you already know, which reduces risk and increases comfort factor.

 

[vinnymbogo]

Much of Africa's charm is its mystique, the adventure, and not knowing what's around the corner...try someplace new. (Safe is boring!)

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog,
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I've never booked a hunt through an agent as I go directly to the hunt source via word of mouth recommendations by others. I'm not saying everyone should do it that way but it's worked for me for many years. Having said that I'm surprised to hear you were treated that way by the likes of Cabela's. I would have thought they were a company that would have at least acknowledged your complaint and done a little follow-up. Disappointing to be sure.

Big5,

I booked my first African hunt through Cabela's for that exact reason you stated (figured they'd be sympathetic/helpful, in the unlikely event anything went wrong).
I figured wrong.

Definitely learned a huge lesson there though.

Always speak thoroughly with multiple references, to get an over-all feel for any Safari Company / PH you are considering a hunt with.

Do a computer search for other related posts on them.

Some are anti-hunters trying to harm reputations of good people and some are good people who have been harmed by the one you might be looking at booking with.

I plan to work hard toward not being fooled again.

Furthermore, Cabela's just built a new store about 6 miles from my house and I do buy a box of bullets or a pair of gloves, some fly tying materials, etc. from them now and again.

Might even apply for a part time job there one day, if my current employer is not too keen on me working part time, as I draw close to that stage in my life (I'm in my 60's so, sooner than later).

Once, a few years after the first safari incident, I did book another hunting trip through Cabela's (pronghorn antelope and grouse over pointing dog special in Montana).

That time however, I did all my homework on the Guide's reputation, before actually booking.

It turned out well and I have always wanted to hunt with that outfit again (Bishop's Guide Service, based in Malta, Montana), they were awesome and the hunting was excellent as well.

Incidentally, back when inquiring of Cabela's about this pronghorn/grouse hunt, I described my bad experiences with my first booking through them.

The person I spoke with said Russell Selle no longer worked for Cabela's and they would do everything they could to regain my trust (I used to order heaps of sporting goods from them back when I was hunting and fishing like mad here in Alaska and their computer confirmed this to him).

Whatever, again, I was not killed by the sort of bum experience with "Burchell Safaris", just very annoyed for a few years.

Well anyway .... blah, blah, blah.

Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[hunting4sanity]

Thanks for the continued discussion/input. There are still plenty of plains game animals that I didn't get on the first safari; blue wildebeest, gemsbuck, waterbuck, warthog, bushbuck, eland, etc and even a few animals that another one of would be just fine too. I wouldn't say no to another zebra or kudu for example. Cape buffalo has always been a dream hunt and moving up the list fast if finances allow, that's an animal that I've heard some say is best outside of RSA and others saying the exact opposite. The first trip with Kido, near Mkuze KZN, was in a beautiful area and enough fun that now my wife wants to go next time - and if she wants to go I figure I best be taking advantage of the opportunity.

 

[Velo Dog]

Thanks for the continued discussion/input. There are still plenty of plains game animals that I didn't get on the first safari; blue wildebeest, gemsbuck, waterbuck, warthog, bushbuck, eland, etc and even a few animals that another one of would be just fine too. I wouldn't say no to another zebra or kudu for example. Cape buffalo has always been a dream hunt and moving up the list fast if finances allow, that's an animal that I've heard some say is best outside of RSA and others saying the exact opposite. The first trip with Kido, near Mkuze KZN, was in a beautiful area and enough fun that now my wife wants to go next time - and if she wants to go I figure I best be taking advantage of the opportunity.

My wife asks me to shoot another zebra for her to have another rug made, every time I book a safari.
She digs 'em for some reason.

 

[jeffpg]

I think this is a great subject and one that you are wise to seek the input of the guys here on AH. There is definitely very much to consider, and a whole lot to learn.

I only began hunting Africa about 2.5 years ago but I got a little crazy with it and I've done 6 different trips in that time varying in length from 2 to 3 weeks in time. I actually spent over 50 days on safari in Africa from August to November this past year, including one 37 day straight day stint with 3 different outfitters in 2 different countries.

Anyway, I repeated with 2 different guys that I had great times with on both trips with them. When you find a PH that is good and his property is good, and you love to hunt and do so with a positive attitude, you will generally have a great time.
I believe if you have the capability to make multiple trips, it's a great idea to hunt a place a second time, especially if you rifle hunt the first time in order to collect certain species and then return with your bow to really get into the close up hunt and learn more about the animals. Of course, my favorite way to hunt Africa is on a fairly long trip where you hunt very opportunistically and mix up the gun and bow hunting so that you never tire of either method. Use the current conditions to hunt most effectively with the bow on waterholes, and then do the traditional safari thing with your rifle the rest of the time. This is the most enjoyable for me personally. If you are fortunate enough to find yourself in the game rich areas found in certain areas of South Africa, you can completely wear yourself out by adding night hunts for the many predators and creatures found mainly in the dark of the African night. This can be extremely adventurous and one heckuva lot of fun!

By all means try to get out and hunt different countries and areas in order to experience the huge variety of flora and fauna that IS Africa. It is an amazing continent that you will likely never even begin to get the real taste of, but it's dang sure fun trying and it WILL change you and how you think. The most comfortable way to jump around while keeping your risks of having a "bad" experience is to first do your research in order to find the good guys. This is not all that difficult to do, but you can mess up. All of my trips except one were totally outstanding, but I did fall into a pit on one hunt and it if this happens to you it will also change how you think and you will never forget this experience either. Just be very careful to only choose someone that you are completely confident in using. Do this by trusting one or preferably more friends who have been hunting with the PH and/or has other people that he can put you in contact with who also have great things to say about the PH and his operation. If you see a red flag, do not hesitate to run like the wind elsewhere, as there are far too many really great outfitters in every huntable country in Africa for you to gamble on your investment of Time and Money! Once you have committed to a place, you are basically stuck there for the duration of your hunt and you will simply have to work to make the best of a bad situation should this be the case.

But do not get paranoid about it, just move forward carefully and enjoy the entire experience while keeping your personal welfare in mind.

Finding those really good guys that you can trust is the key to truly outstanding experiences. There's plenty of them here!

 

[LouisB]

Hi Hunting4sanity


My two cents are that if the PH/Outfitter does a good job he should at least be afforded the opportunity to try and cater to your next hunts needs. We depend strongly on returning clients in this industry.


Should the Outfitter have disappointed you or you feel for some reason did not deliver as expected I doubt anyone would blame you for choosing another outfit (it does not come across that way in this post at all).


In saying that he could be an great Outfitter and PH but not have access to land in a particular area that you would like to hunt or not be interested in hunting another area but then at least you gave him the opportunity of trying to cater to your hunting needs.


According to the species you mentioned you would want to be in Limpopo on your next hunt.


Please feel free to contact me with any other questions or concerns.


Best Regards

Louis van Bergen

 

[Buff-Buster]

Great topic. I believe this is one of those that will pretty much be a split between all that respond. Good thing is that there isn't a wrong answer. That's one of the great things about hunting, it means the same thing to most, but at the same time, the why part is totally individual and spiritual. (getting too deep here, I know) Point is that whether you feel more comfortable staying with the same PH/Outfitter time and time again, or you choose to share your experience with someone new each trip, neither is a wrong answer.
For me personally, so far, I choosen to experience new places and new people each trip. I have been blessed by hunting with fantastic companies and PH's everywhere I have been. So much so, that very few weeks go by that I'm not in contact with every one of them in some form or fashion. Every one of them are true friends to me and my family. I enjoyed spending time and learning from every one of them and their wonderful trackers. My wife and I go to work every day and we are both getting up there closer to retirement age. We have been lucky and have taken four safaris over the last ten years. These trips are our "vacations" so I usually skip any inbetween vacations to devote the funds to the "next safari". The bad part is, realistically, I can only afford to make one safari every three or so years so I have to decide what type of adventure that safari will be. What makes this decision making process even harder is that over the years I have become friends with many in this industry. So much so, that I long to hunt with all of them! (Jaco, Jacques, Luis, Jerome, just to name a few!) Unfortuneatly, unless I win the Mega Millions Lottery I'll have to weigh the need for certain adventures verses the wanting to hunt with these "fun to be with PH's". "Come on Lotto!!!!"

 

[billc]

jeffpg you spent some serious time hunting over in Africa the last few years. What happened on that one hunt you talked about that was not good compared to the others. What was the hunt for and was it bad because you did not take what you were after?

 

[jeff]

There are so many top notch outfits advertising here that I don't think fear of something new is warranted if you do just a little research, I've done two hunts that I booked from the forum, both good.

 

[jeffpg]

jeffpg you spent some serious time hunting over in Africa the last few years. What happened on that one hunt you talked about that was not good compared to the others. What was the hunt for and was it bad because you did not take what you were after?

Well Bill, it's a pretty long story if told in full, that in my opinion is so bad that it's almost unbelievable if you weren't there to actually witness it. I have shared some of it with some guys in order to protect them from making a mistake, and I intend to be more proactive in sharing my disaster of a trip after some dust settles and I have the time to properly report it in order to help other guys avoid the same type experience I had.

I have always had good things to say about the great outfits that I have had the pleasure of hunting with, and to be honest it is not easy for me to publicly lay down negative facts about someone in the hunting business, but to not share what I went through with my fellow hunters in the effort to help them avoid the same kind of deal would be very wrong on my part. It just goes against my nature to openly invite the drama that can accompany these situations, as I am more prone to avoid drama at all costs when I can.

I will say that I recently invested 22 days in a Leopard hunt in Namibia with a outfitter that I failed to thoroughly investigate. I tried to do everything possible in an attempt to improve my odds of success on a Leopard, such as booking the only hunt of the entire year on the massive property said to be loaded with cats during the specific dates recommended by the outfitter who was also the landowner and PH. I am very thorough with my hunt planning, and I did everything I could to prepare for success by studying the quarry and the hunting process as well as asking all of the questions that I could think of that may help me to prepare for the event. I even spent a week hunting Cape buffalo in a camp in South Africa right before my leopard hunt, where I was able to lay my hands on a freshly killed leopard that was taken by a fellow hunter and brought into camp one evening. I had been following the leopard hunt by visiting with the hunter and PH on a daily basis as their hunt unfolded. Between this and actually getting to inspect, touch and handle the dead cat, I felt that I was very prepared to approach my own leopard with confidence and avoid the feeling of being overwhelmed by the excitement of seeing my first leopard that sometimes happens to a hunter.

Anyway, the long story made extremely short, I did not get a chance at harvesting a leopard but that isn't the real problem. The worst thing is that my PH did not even put forth an effort to hunt me for a leopard. In 22 days in camp, I was only taken to a blind for 4 full nights. I was taken for another half-night, on which the PH said that he had to leave early to go into town the next day to attend a land auction but that he would be back that evening. He did not return that evening, nor the next evening. There would be several days in a row that I would never see or hear from him. Yes, I did constantly confront the guy about all of this, but he always nervously made lame excuses and then quickly excused himself to run off to attend to some suddenly remembered errand.

Since I couldn't seem to get him to take me to a blind to hunt a leopard, I attempted to fill the days by hunting some plains game. This produced mixed results, as I was constantly denied access to certain properties that I was told we could hunt, and I was also denied many simple requests of things such as sighting in rifles and shooting mature animals that were open for hunting.

On one occasion I was actually verbally and then even physically abused by the guy as he went into a rage after I politely questioned why I was being forcibly taken back to the lodge after a afternoon of hunting plains game with 2 hours of daylight still left in the day to hunt. This altercation practically put me into a state of shock and I believe I then settled into a survival mode in which I simply chose to try to ride the storm out and to get away from the place without getting into some really serious trouble with the guy. If I had been in my home country I would have reacted quite differently than I did, but I had no desire to risk getting into trouble where I was.

This is a very condensed version of what my nightmare trip was like. It will take several pages to really lay it all out there and I do not really look forward to reliving the experience, to be honest.

 

[enysse]

Sorry to hear jeffpg, I thought people would not do that kind of thing anymore....what a bunch of BS!!!!!!

 

[bluey]

jeez, you need to air this one jeff
verbal abuse in the heat of an argument , is something that happens ,and can be laughed about after you both cool your heads .... but physical abuse for wanting to fullfill a hunt and a dream , aint good .

 

[ScottG]

You want to say kick his butt, but you are right in another country with no means of transportation and who only knows what he tells the local police. You could not be heard from for a long time. Good info still, I wouldn't think that would go on. For a first timer this is valuable intell.

 

[owenowen]

I've only been on one safari, so far. I went with Kido Safaris in KZN and had a great hunt, I really want to & plan on hunting with them again. However, my question is, do I go back to what I know was good or do I see somewhere different? I'm just looking for people's opinions and what they've done, how they make that decision. I see guys going back to the same PH/outfitter for the third, fourth or even more times and think, 'that must be a great place to hunt.' Again, I've only been on one safari, but it was a great one; at the same time as much as I want to go back again and again, the reality is getting back to Africa more than a couple more times would be very tough to do. As I read hunt reports and spend time here on AH, I find there are several PHs/outfitters I would like to hunt with just making the decision harder. So, do I go back to what I know was great or try something new?

Hi there, ask your previous PH if they can do other species in other provinces. Doing it this way you will have your same PH and you will be able to see other provinces and species in SA.

 

[jeff]

Yes as a service to fellow hunters we would like to learn from your experience. Did you book directly or through a agent? Sorry that a dream hunt went so wrong!

 

[Warbird782]

I had your same dilemma a few months back. I was sure that I wanted to hunt a lioness early in 2015 due to pending decision by the USFWS. I had only hunted in RSA once with an outfitter who did an outstanding job at making my first hunt the way I wanted it. I contacted him three times to get me a quote on a lioness hunt. He has taken a few clients to hunt lions before but he mostly specializes in PG in the EC. Each time I e-mailed him he responded by saying that he would not get me any prices until after the first of January. I told him that I was ready to book and had cash for the deposit right then but needed to know what the price would be. I did venture out and spoke with 7 other outfitters who gladly provided a price quote so I booked with one of them. I gave him the first crack at my business but it seemed that he did not want it so I moved on. I still consider him a friend and actually had dinner with him a few weeks back. He did not even ask about my lion interest so I told him that I booked with another outfitter.

My advise to you is if you have a good relationship with your previous outfitter give him a chance as repeat bookings are important to their business. If he cannot fulfill your wants/needs/price take a look at the the many on this site who could meet your needs. Do not be afraid to look to another outfitter that may have the animals or hunt in the different areas that you would like to go. I would start by asking him for what you want but also ask other outfits at the same time to see what they have. Compare and make your decision and do not look back!
Dave

 

[Jacques.strauss]

Hi Hunting4sanity

Have you thought about hunting species in their natural habitat where they actually ARE from? For example hunting Bushbuck in the Cape, Springbuck & Gemsbuck in the Kalahari...

It might be a fun thing to do if you have the time and money to see Africa from all different angles... And get to experience different outfitters and get the BEST species from their natural areas. The big thing is, how do you know a good outfitter from a bad one from one trip? I mean, I like Coca-cola because I tried Pepsi and it sucked.... Get where I'm going? I guess this is what makes this site great...! You can compare...

Namibian greetings
Jacques Strauss