Resurrecting the 270 Win

[Rock375]

Sgt Zim
I agree mate the 270 won't do anything the 280 or 06 won't do a bit better.
If it wasn't for Jack O'Connor jamming it down our throats I don't think it would be where it is today. If it wasn't for a bucket full of advertising the 270, 243 and a few others may have died at birth.
Cheers mate Bob

That’s probably true for any cartridge. I love the 270 Win. The 6.5 Creedmoor is especially a success due to marketing. I own and love it also. In Africa I’ve primarily used a 300 WBY & 375 H&H. However, I plan on taking my beloved 30-06 on my next trip. If it was strictly legal, I’d take one of my 270’s. Instead. I’m a gun caliber freak and personally own many. If I could only own one for plains game sized game. it would definitely be a 270 or good old 30-06.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

That’s probably true for any cartridge. I love the 270 Win. The 6.5 Creedmoor is especially a success due to marketing. I own and love it also. In Africa I’ve primarily used a 300 WBY & 375 H&H. However, I plan on taking my beloved 30-06 on my next trip. If it was strictly legal, I’d take one of my 270’s. Instead. I’m a gun caliber freak and personally own many. If I could only own one for plains game sized game. it would definitely be a 270 or good old 30-06.

@Rock375
Mate I'm a,died in the wool 35 Whelen nut and also love my 25s
Bob

 

[Red Devil]

...A good 7mm 160 grain bullet at 3,000 fps is about the best medicine for game that you could get...
Cheers mate Bob

7mm/160 gr. - recoil = .270/150 gr.

Math, who knew.

8>)




Red

 

[mdwest]

Ive been a dyed in the wool 308 guy most of my adult life... its been my go-to cartridge for all big game in NA since my early 20's (as a teen and through my early 20's I mostly hunted with a 30-30)..

Ive got to admit in recent years I have become a much bigger fan of .270 and 7x57 though..

I've found there is little a .308 can do that a .270 cant.. and the .270 can do it with less recoil, flatter at longer distances, etc..

then factor in that amid all of the COVID scare, 2020 election BS, etc.. that ammo for anything remotely "tactical" (556, 308, 9mm, .45 ACP, etc) is virtually unobtainable.. but there is still .270 to be found on the shelves at places like Scheels, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Walmart, etc.. and is still "normally" priced (where 9mm/556, etc is now selling at 2-4x what it was selling for 10 months ago)..

It is quickly becoming one of my favorite cartridges..

 

[rookhawk]

Ive been a dyed in the wool 308 guy most of my adult life... its been my go-to cartridge for all big game in NA since my early 20's (as a teen and through my early 20's I mostly hunted with a 30-30)..

Ive got to admit in recent years I have become a much bigger fan of .270 and 7x57 though..

I've found there is little a .308 can do that a .270 cant.. and the .270 can do it with less recoil, flatter at longer distances, etc..

then factor in that amid all of the COVID scare, 2020 election BS, etc.. that ammo for anything remotely "tactical" (556, 308, 9mm, .45 ACP, etc) is virtually unobtainable.. but there is still .270 to be found on the shelves at places like Scheels, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Walmart, etc.. and is still "normally" priced (where 9mm/556, etc is now selling at 2-4x what it was selling for 10 months ago)..

It is quickly becoming one of my favorite cartridges..

I have several .270s even though I'm not that big of a fan...the caliber has been a classic for a long time so pretty guns often are chambered as such and I'm a sucker for pretty guns. But at any rate, the throat and OAL factors do play a role in making the 7mm and .270 very different calibers.

.270 Winchester = .277" bullet
7mm of all types = .284" bullet

Sounds microscopic in differences, but they aren't.

The .270 family was truly built around the .270 Winchester and then suped up to .270 weatherby, etc. Its sweet spot is the 130gr bullet. Yes, there are 140gr bullets available but its an uncommon loading. In fact, my favorite .270 does not like 140gr bullets AT ALL.

But the 7mm family was truly built around the 7x57 Mauser. That gun was long throated and the bullets that were "standard" were the max-size bullets of 180gr, FMJ. Thus, the 7mm bullet tradition was always heavy for caliber sized bullets that give incredible BCs and sectional density. Even as soft points, most are shooting lead jacketed 175gr SPs (Partitions / Accubonds / A-Frames) in all the 7mm family of guns, OR they are shooting a 140gr-150gr pure copper bullet that has the VOLUMETRIC size of a 175gr-180gr lead core bullet with flatter shooting due to lighter weight. Adding to that, the 7mm mag exists, the 7x64 brenneke exists, and the 7x61 S&L, and the 7x61 STW, .280 AI, the .28 nosler, and the a host of others if you need more power. The geometry of a .284" bullet and the longer throat tradition makes a gigantic difference of performance even though you'd think .277" versus .284" should be a rounding error.

My 9 year old shoots a 7x64 brenneke and I'm here to tell you, NOTHING in a .270 creates the game reaction that the 7x64 does. Similar recoil, dramatic differences in performance. Additional speed and bullet weight are part of the reason, increased bore diameter means increased bullet size upon expansion, and of course, the vastly superior BCs play a role.

 

[mdwest]

I agree with all points...

but.. for me the issue becomes "so what"?

when we're talking about taking deer/elk/hog type game in north america at reasonable hunting distances.. what does the 7x57, 7x64, 308, or any other 270 or larger caliber offer that the tried and true old 270 does not?

If we're talking long range shooting.. sure.. big differences.. if we're talking about larger/tougher game... perhaps a noticeable difference depending on the cartridge.. but typical NA "deer" type game at typical distances... Im not sure any of it matters.. Its really more about personal preferences than anything else..

"Game reaction"? Im not sure there is any difference at all... Not when every NA animal I've ever shot or witnessed being shot with a .270 at 200 yards or less, has gone less than 40 yards before dropping (most have either dropped on the spot or gone less than 20 yards)..

If we transition the conversation to Asian or African game.. something with a thicker hide, that is subjected to more predation, has a stronger "will to live", etc.. then everything changes.. I know a lot of guys hunt Africa with a .270... for me its a bit light.. I've hunted 1 warthog with a 7x57... everything else I have taken in Africa has been with either a .308 or a .375 H&H..

 

[rookhawk]

I agree with all points...

but.. for me the issue becomes "so what"?

when we're talking about taking deer/elk/hog type game in north america at reasonable hunting distances.. what does the 7x57, 7x64, 308, or any other 270 or larger caliber offer that the tried and true old 270 does not?

If we're talking long range shooting.. sure.. big differences.. if we're talking about larger/tougher game... perhaps a noticeable difference depending on the cartridge.. but typical NA "deer" type game at typical distances... Im not sure any of it matters.. Its really more about personal preferences than anything else..

"Game reaction"? Im not sure there is any difference at all... Not when every NA animal I've ever shot or witnessed being shot with a .270 at 200 yards or less, has gone less than 40 yards before dropping (most have either dropped on the spot or gone less than 20 yards)..

If we transition the conversation to Asian or African game.. something with a thicker hide, that is subjected to more predation, has a stronger "will to live", etc.. then everything changes.. I know a lot of guys hunt Africa with a .270... for me its a bit light.. I've hunted 1 warthog with a 7x57... everything else I have taken in Africa has been with either a .308 or a .375 H&H..

The logic goes that if .270 is less than sufficient for Africa and the 7mm is sufficient for Africa, 7mm is delivering more efficacy. In guns of same cost and quality, same recoil, why wouldn't you want that same efficacy advantage for North American game? Going for a .270 is knowingly selecting an inferior option and that may make a marginal shot even more marginal than if it were a .284" bullet.

I'm not speaking of long range shooting either, I'm speaking of close work as well, most shots being inside that 200 yard mark with many under 50 yards. I'd certainly prefer hitting a bear or boar with a 7mm than a 270 when bone causing deflection is a higher probability.

In the world of "magical cartridges" that provide unique performance against their peers, there is a short list. 270, .30, and .338 don't seem to have that magical combo of stopping, flat shooting, recoil management, and inherently superior BCs that some other calibers tend to have.

The "does more than it should really be able to do" column includes:

.243 Winchester
.256 gibbs / 257 roberts / 257 weatherby
6.5x55 Swede / 6.5 MS
7x57 / 7x64 / 7mm
375HH
404 Jeff / 450-400
470 Nitro

Those caliber families in those loads provide the best BC, SD, low recoil, and best expansion in their respective classes as history has found out. Some by great BCs and high velocities, some by heavy for caliber bullets with great BCs at moderate velocities.

 

[ZG47]

The logic goes that if .270 is less than sufficient for Africa and the 7mm is sufficient for Africa, 7mm is delivering more efficacy. In guns of same cost and quality, same recoil, why wouldn't you want that same efficacy advantage for North American game? Going for a .270 is knowingly selecting an inferior option and that may make a marginal shot even more marginal than if it were a .284" bullet.

I'm not speaking of long range shooting either, I'm speaking of close work as well, most shots being inside that 200 yard mark with many under 50 yards. I'd certainly prefer hitting a bear or boar with a 7mm than a 270 when bone causing deflection is a higher probability.

In the world of "magical cartridges" that provide unique performance against their peers, there is a short list. 270, .30, and .338 don't seem to have that magical combo of stopping, flat shooting, recoil management, and inherently superior BCs that some other calibers tend to have.

The "does more than it should really be able to do" column includes:

.243 Winchester
.256 gibbs / 257 roberts / 257 weatherby
6.5x55 Swede / 6.5 MS
7x57 / 7x64 / 7mm
375HH
404 Jeff / 450-400
470 Nitro

Those caliber families in those loads provide the best BC, SD, low recoil, and best expansion in their respective classes as history has found out. Some by great BCs and high velocities, some by heavy for caliber bullets with great BCs at moderate velocities.

You missed the .250 Savage. Good work on keeping this thread going, guys.

 

[walk-in]

As stated prior, the 270 Winchester still seems popular in my parts of Alaska.
Last week a friend's daughter filled her cow moose permit. Per his feedback, 270 Win, at about 75 yds, cow pretty much broadside, after shot travel distance about 25 yds, 1 rib going in, massive internal destruction, exit opposite side, Remington 150 grain factory load, believed to have been pointed Core Lokt bullet. I saw the picture and this was a sizable mature cow.

Oddly enough, even though I see 270 ammo on the shelves at local stores, I've never come across another Interior Alaska hunter that regularly uses it. I imagine it may be more popular in Southeast than in the Interior. Personally, I think it is the ideal caribou and sheep gun, and a good moose gun.

 

[HuntingGold]

I bought my first center fire rifle at the ripe age of 14. The rifle is a Remington 700 ADL chambered in .270 Winchester. Thirty-eight years later I cannot in all honesty tell you why I chose that rifle in that caliber. Even at the age of 12, 13, and 14, I read and studied quite a bit before making decisions; my guess is that though O'Connor had passed several years before, his influence was still strong and contributed to the cartridge choice. The fact that Parker's Rod and Gun Rack had a nice looking ADL on the rack probably had as much to do with my decision to go with Remington than anything else. That and Gene Parker was a incredibly kind soul and allowed a 14 year old to buy the gun on a lay away plan. With all the above said, I have shot an unknown amount of mule and black-tailed deer, better than a dozen elk, a handful of pronghorn, a moose, and all kinds of other critters from Belding ground squirrels to coyotes with that rifle.

Many times since then I have considered another rifle cartridge combo. The only other cartridge in this class I have considered is a 280 Ackley Improved. I have even gone as far as having one built but so far it's not gone on a hunt as I always reach in and grab the 270. I have picked up a handful of 30-06s the last few years so that I have a rifle to give each of my grandchildren. The versatility of the '06 is impressive and if I were giving advice to that 14 year old me again, I'd point to it. With that said, I still reach in and grab the 270.

I plan on meeting with a custom gun maker in the next 2 months, likely actually before Christmas, to lay out plans for a custom built rifle to carry me into the latter half of my life. Again after months of research and internal deliberations, I've decided to build a .270 Winchester. It will be used heavily again in North America and will likely make a trip or two to Africa. None of the kudu I've killed to date have been as big as Rocky Mountain elk let alone a Roosevelt Elk. I'm more than confident the .270 will handle plains game to that size. There are many here that will deride my decision, I don't care. I'm building the rifle to please me alone.

A mule deer, Rocky Mtn Elk, and blacktail all taken with the 270 I bought when I was 14.

 

[Lee M]

Confidence is everything assuming the caliber is adequate. If you know your rifle and put the bullet in the right spot it is game over. Sure the bigger the game, the bigger caliber helps, but only if you can shoot it accurately.

 

[Dr Ray]

The 270 is a fabulous cartridge and is called the queen of the plains.
I really like my 270.

 

[Ray B]

The 270 is .007" smaller diameter than the 7mm so the differences lay in the bullets/rate of twist and other details more rifle than cartridge; so I'm wondering why Winchester decided on the .277 bullet when they were necking down the 30-06. I suspect that the USA's unpleasant experiences in Europe and the Caribbean played a significant role in avoiding the .284.

 

[bruce moulds]

what us experience in europe involved 7mm?
certainly cuba made them smart.
the first 270 round that i know of was i think a chinese military cartridge.
bruce.

 

[ZG47]

The 270 is .007" smaller diameter than the 7mm so the differences lay in the bullets/rate of twist and other details more rifle than cartridge; so I'm wondering why Winchester decided on the .277 bullet when they were necking down the 30-06. I suspect that the USA's unpleasant experiences in Europe and the Caribbean played a significant role in avoiding the .284.

I have said this before. The .270 Winchester is essentially the Chinese 6.8x57 military round with a larger case. The Chinese contract Mauser rifles chambered to 6.8x57 were never exported to China because of the Boxer rebellion and ensuing chaos. When WWI started they were issued to one or more regiments, the names of which I cannot currently recall. If you really do not have a life you could trawl back through my posts to get the names or alternatively try Google. Given that it is such an obscure subject I imagine that either way would be tedious.

My best guess is that Winchester obtained rifles and ammunition as war booty, i.e. reparations; rechambered at least one rifle to use a necked down .30-06 case and got themselves a high velocity round to market against the .256 Newton but with fewer pressure issues. A second advantage was that they avoided all the 7mm and .280 tolerance issues.

 

[ldmay375]

Oddly enough, even though I see 270 ammo on the shelves at local stores, I've never come across another Interior Alaska hunter that regularly uses it. I imagine it may be more popular in Southeast than in the Interior. Personally, I think it is the ideal caribou and sheep gun, and a good moose gun.

I know of 2ea 270’s that were used by other hunters this year. One used it for caribou and the other for moose. Both were successful without drama.
Agree, most folks that I know use other than the 270 Winchester. But, someone must be actually using them. Or it would seem the in stock ammo choices would slim down.

 

[colorado]

I know of 2ea 270’s that were used by other hunters this year. One used it for caribou and the other for moose. Both were successful without drama.
Agree, most folks that I know use other than the 270 Winchester. But, someone must be actually using them. Or it would seem the in stock ammo choices would slim down.

It was 30 years ago, but the most popular elk rifles in Montana were the 30-06 and the 270. They're were a lot of 8mm sporterized Mausers around too

 

[JuliusKlokow]

I am actually a bit nostalgic about the .270. My first hunt was with a .270 shooting with a friend and I liked the way it performed as a flat shooter when zeroed at 200 metres. We also had another hunter with his 30-06 in the group and he was trying to compare performance with the .270. I do not know why. Each has its own place in hunting and I just preferred the .270 between the two when I bought my own rifle for plains' hunting. I reload and hunt with 130gr Hornady Interbonds (still have a two boxes) on smaller buck and use 145gr ELD-X on larger game. The Hornady SST bullets is prone to blow up on deer with a lot of meat damage and I rather prefer a bonded bullet above it. Although the ELD-X is not bonded and seperate from cup and core many times we always find the cup on the other side of the deer indicating good penetration.

I enjoy my .270 and will buy a 30-06 or .308 rifle only if I hunt in the african bushveld where some game farms prefer larger bore rifles to be used in the bush.

 

[sgt_zim]

Sgt Zim
I agree mate the 270 won't do anything the 280 or 06 won't do a bit better.
If it wasn't for Jack O'Connor jamming it down our throats I don't think it would be where it is today. If it wasn't for a bucket full of advertising the 270, 243 and a few others may have died at birth.
Cheers mate Bob

I'd guess that if 280 Rem had been born before 270 Win, we'd have probably been reading about 280 being O'Connor's favorite cartridge, and especially 280 Rem AI - an honest 2900-3K fps with a 160 gr bullet.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'd guess that if 280 Rem had been born before 270 Win, we'd have probably been reading about 280 being O'Connor's favorite cartridge, and especially 280 Rem AI - an honest 2900-3K fps with a 160 gr bullet.

@Sgt Zim
The 280 and the AI version ore one caliber I have always liked. Unfortunately I don't own one but if I was limited to just one rifle but Australia that would be my cartridge of choice. Well balanced and efficient.
Bob