Viability of the Big Horn Armory Model 89 in .500 S&W (22" Barrel) for Cape Buffalo?

[Altitude sickness]

Yes every one knows a sardine isn’t enough. You need a minimum of a Tuna. I prefer at least a Bluefin tuna. As long as you can put that first tuna in the vitals every time.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks one and all for your feedback. I gather from most it's probably not a good idea. What lead me down this path is just looking at the numbers and comparing DG Calibers and Bullets. I personally have never seen any of these rounds on a chronograph but I did dig into a lot of sources. When I put it together in a chart I thought this looks interesting at least on paper.

Dangerous Game Cartridge Comparison Chart​

Cartridge	Bullet Weight	Muzzle Velocity (fps)	Muzzle Energy (ft-lbs)	Notes – DG Load Type
.500 S&W Mag (22")	500 gr solid	2,150–2,200	5,135–5,375	Mono solid or Punch in BHA Model 89
.375 H&H Mag	300 gr solid	2,450–2,550	4,000–4,320	Swift A-Frame / TSX / Hydro
.404 Jeffery	400 gr solid	2,150–2,300	4,100–4,700	Woodleigh solid or North Fork FP
.450/400 NE 3"	400 gr solid	2,050–2,150	3,730–4,100	Classic NE load; soft then solid
.416 Rigby	400 gr solid	2,350–2,450	4,900–5,340	Trophy Bonded / TSX / Hydro.

No "herring or sardine" just data. How accurate Im not sure but I did look at multiple sources. Please remember this is just an Idea. I do have a 375 H&H and a 416 Rem Mag. When I do get a chance to go to Africa Im sure I would bring one or both of those rifles. Im just one of those people that likes to look outside the box and wanted to see what people who have been there think.
Once again I do appreciate the feedback.

@DaBill
If they are actual figures and not pie in the sky then with the PROPER bullet I can't see why not.
I would chronograph them to make sure they are real. It looks good on PAPER but we all know about Murphy.
The reverse is also true. Some cartridges don't look that impressive in paper but kill out of all proportion to what they should. Take the little 358 win and 45-70. Kill far above what paper ballistics say they should.
Also with that much power in a lever action follow up shots may not be as quick as you think when recovering from recoil.
From personal experience full power 400gn 45-70 loads in a marlin guide gun makes it hard to do fast or any follow up shots. My hand is to sore from the pounding the lever gives it. Big hands and small levers don't mix. Yeh I know I need to learn to shoot a hard kicking lever properly.
I'm not saying it can't be done it is your choice.

The only BIG bovine I've shot was a big bull in a paddock for meat for the farm. One shot with my old 303 and it was done. Range was around fifty yards and it was a perfect front in brain shot.
So only a cranky old farm bull far from qualifies me to comment.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I dont know why. If you get into any dangerous field of work you know the risk you are taking on.

And the risk for hunting dangerous game by non standard equipment is it really as high as the risk of a bad shot by someone over guned because there going after something dangerous?

I knew a old bear hunter that would rather you bringing a 243 and put the bullets where they needed to go than a 338 mag.

He singled out the 338 because of the number of them that showed up brand new .

@Flbt
I would rather NO-ONE show up at my camp with a 243 or 338. One is to light the other overrated.
If they showed up with a 25, 7mm, 30-06 or a Whelen that would make more sense to me.
When people could actually hunt and shoot they didn't need big magnums. They stalked closer and shot straight.
Gun writers and advertising convinced people thew were under gunned when what they had been using for years actually worked. Alas the were believed and we were convinced bigger and faster is better.
The musings of a grumpy old fart.
Bob

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt
I would rather NO-ONE show up at my camp with a 243 or 338. One is to light the other overrated.
If they showed up with a 25, 7mm, 30-06 or a Whelen that would make more sense to me.
When people could actually hunt and shoot they didn't need big magnums. They stalked closer and shot straight.
Gun writers and advertising convinced people thew were under gunned when what they had been using for years actually worked. Alas the were believed and we were convinced bigger and faster is better.
The musings of a grumpy old fart.
Bob

Well I like the 6mm Remington.
But if they open bear season back up.
I have no interest in using it the 358 probably #1 the 4570-44 mag 350l 450bm and then the 6.5x55.
Probably on that order lol

I actually like the 338 I have used the Winchester and have uses my brothers ultra mag a few times
I wanted the 338 marlin but don’t like hornday being the only manufacturer.
I thought the 338 win did well 200 gr silver tip to 300 gr hornady round nose but I was shooting deer and hogs so you know not really nessary.
The more 35 I used it appears to me the 35 hits harder.

Witch of I am trying to talk a nice older gentleman out of his 35 Remington he no longer hunts. It’s a Remington model 14 pump rifle in 35
There no blueing left on the old girl but no rust
The tube magazine is spiral and looks like it has a brass tag that looks like a cartridge head showing the caliber
It’s a carbine from handling it fells like it weighs 6 lbs or less

 

[DaBill]

I know a lever-action rifle probably isn’t the best choice for dangerous game, especially Cape buffalo. There are a lot of options out there that just barely meet the minimum standards — and I get that. But as I’ve read through different topics and listened to the wide range of experience and opinions from the members here, one piece of advice really stuck with me:

“Bring the rifle you’re most comfortable with, in a caliber you can shoot well.”

That hit home.

When and where I grew up, lever actions were just what we used. That’s what I learned to shoot with, hunted with, and handled without thinking. Even though that was many years ago, it’s still what feels natural in my hands. So I started thinking — if I ever get the chance to hunt Cape buffalo, and the situation gets intense, that’s probably the rifle that would come up to my shoulder without hesitation.

That said, given what I know now, I would definitely want something chambered in a more potent round — something with the energy and penetration to do the job right with proper bullets and smart handloads.

That’s why I’ve been curious about what’s actually available in that space — big-bore lever guns like the .50 Alaskan or .500 S&W in a strong platform, modern solid bullets, and 22-inch barrels. I really appreciate the knowledge everyone here has shared. It’s given me a lot to think about — and even more to be curious about.

Thanks, guys.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I personally do not believe that you can run a 500 gr .500 caliber bullet in the 500 S&W to 2000+. There is not enough case capacity, nor suitable powder to achieve that velocity, in that case. 400 gr, Yes.........
And here is why I have that opinion;


The 50 B&M Super Short is very near identical to the 500 S&W cartridge. 50 B&M SS is a cut/trimmed WSM case to 1.650 and the S&W case is 1.625, so the 50 B&M case is slightly bigger, 69 gr of water capacity, S&W at 65 gr. This is important in the following information.

50 B&M SS is designed for the WSSM M70 action. And can handle 65000 PSI without issue. The rifles have 16 inch barrels. In .500 caliber, there is a lot of interior burning cubic inches. This makes .500 pretty efficient using appropriate powders. In my research here these cases have a very narrow window of the type powder that is efficient. In the beginning WW 296 was top end, until I tried LilGun. Lilgun edges out WW 296 by just a smidge, with slightly more velocity at lower pressures. But just by a smidge. Going with a slower powder on the scale you run into case capacity before reaching optimum velocity. Going faster you reach Pressure limits before getting to optimum velocity. A very narrow window.

I also have the capability of running Pressures here as well. I tested the 500 gr Hornady FN Soft many years ago in the 50 B&M SS. I was able to get 1777 fps with 39/LilGun at 64500 PSI. 40/WW 296 ran 1715 fps at 60000 PSI, I did not go any further with it, could have probably made 1750 fps with WW 296 without going over 65000 PSI, but I did not see a point in it.

To claim 2000-2150 fps with a 500 gr .500 caliber in the S&W Case, which is smaller than the B&M just does not add up to me, even at 22 inch barrel. I am pretty sure there is no way you would gain that much velocity in 6 inches extra barrel. Remember inside Cubic Inch Burn? You don't gain 40-50 fps per inch with these powders. If you gain anything at all, which is also a little doubtful, then it would be between 10 fps and 20 fps per inch at the most.

400 gr bullets we can get 2050 to almost 2100 fps in the 16 inch B&M version without going over 65000 PSI. You might get to 2150 with a 400 with the 22 inches....... or close, Maybe..........

Now, can the Big Horn handle 65000 PSI? I really don't know, but honestly I would suspect it might. Reason being, I had contact with the owner of Big Horn before his lever action was ready for market, they were still design and making....... Very nice fellow, and seemed to be very serious about the Big Horn being what they claim it to be today, and I do not doubt it is very Top Of The Line. I suspect he built a lot of strength in the action. He was very interested in my 50 B&M Alaskan, also a lever cartridge based off the .510 Alaskan, just squeezed down to .500 caliber. This cartridge can be done on the 1895 Marlins and the Winchester/Browning M71s. I can tell you this for sure on these guns, the 1895 Marlin can handle 45000 PSI before running into issues, and I think you can run 50000 PSI or so in the M71s. The Alaskan case is much bigger, 2.1 inches and 85 gr water capacity.

Regardless of the above, it is really a moot point. You don't need a 500 gr .500 caliber bullet to conduct business on DG in the field. If you use proper designed bullet tech, then you can rule the world. I needed proper bullet tech for all the B&M cartridges, but in particular the various .500 caliber cartridges. At the time I started this, there was only S&W Handgun bullets available. I needed something much more substantial to do things I wanted to do, so we went to work.

For buffalo +, I really like for a bullet to start out at 2100 +. I was coming up just a little short with 400s in the 16 inch 50BM SS..... I dropped to 375 gr for the Solids, in both CEB and North Fork. CEB made a Raptor from the 375 Solid at 335 gr. North Fork made a matching 375 gr Expanding CPS for me. These bullets would prove their worth in the field, and turn this cartridge into a serious hammer, even with its tiny size compared to anything else...... overall 36 inches total, and 6.25 lbs without scope. 375 Solids from 2150-2200 fps running a modest 60000-62000 PSI, same with the 375 North Fork Expanding CPS and we could bump up the 335 Raptor to 2225-2250 fps.

In 2012 I took the entire family Down Under to do some shooting with Paul Truccolo. My best friend Sam Rose was along as well, he was testing some new CEB bullets for his 500 NE guns. My Son Matthew had his 50 B&M Super Short, loaded with CEBs and North Forks. Mark David had his 475 B&M Super Short loaded also with CEB and North Forks designed for his 475 SS at .474 caliber, they came in at 350 and 375 as well. Sam was shooting a new 475 Raptor and 510 Solid from CEB in his 500 NE.

The boys really put on a show. Sam and Paul both watched intensily as Matthew worked the little 50 SS with ease, both made the comments that it was just as effective on buffalo as Sam's 500 NE! They said, not me, but it was getting the buffalo's attention in a very serious way. None of the Solids were recovered, they all burned .500 caliber holes through and through. Mostly broadside and very angled shots, I don't know of any rear to front or front to rear that the boys did. Some Raptor bases were recovered from broadside shots.......

This is a 325 Raptor .474 from the 475 Super Short;

Matthew slammed this big body tank of a bull with his 50 Super Short..... two North Fork Expanding CPS, angled shots...... both recovered see below, and 1 375 North Fork Solid from severe angle forward that exited..........

Matthew shot 20 or so buffalo on this trip with the 50 SS, it was a solid hammer on buffalo without any doubt at all. This was observed by 3 very experienced individuals. In addition, the .474 caliber SS did just as good. 20 or so buffalo for Mark David, and he never came up "Short" at all either. Mark David would go on later to take elephant with his 475 B&M SS with a 350 CEB Solid at 2200 fps, side brain at 10 steps, done and over, and exited far side..........

So can the Big Horn Armory in 500 S&W stand the test of Big Dangerous Game? Oh yes without any doubt, but you need to use proper bullet tech. As far as that goes, it don't matter if you use a 500 NE, you still have to have proper bullet tech! If you do not have the right bullets, you will fail regardless of the cartridge or rifle.

I have taken the notion several times that I wanted a Big Horn 500 S&W...... but with the 50 Super Short in the Bolt gun, and my own 50 B&M Alaskan lever guns, I can't really justify it, and it won't do anything that what I have already won't do........ But they are super nice and I believe they are top notch first class firearms and would be damn hard to beat.......... Well done Big Horn.

@michael458
Us usual EXCELLENT ADVICE BASED ON ACTUAL FIELD EXPERIENCE. No one can ask for better than that.
I get great pleasure out of reading your information and trying to work out what I can do with other cartridges like the Whelen. I reckon those raptors would turn it into something really special for a just in case the SHTF load when hunting non dangerous game.
I personally think the Whelen would be fine on buffalo with a 310grainer at 2,450fps but I'm always open to new ideas.
Thank you for your informative comments
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I know a lever-action rifle probably isn’t the best choice for dangerous game, especially Cape buffalo. There are a lot of options out there that just barely meet the minimum standards — and I get that. But as I’ve read through different topics and listened to the wide range of experience and opinions from the members here, one piece of advice really stuck with me:

“Bring the rifle you’re most comfortable with, in a caliber you can shoot well.”

That hit home.

When and where I grew up, lever actions were just what we used. That’s what I learned to shoot with, hunted with, and handled without thinking. Even though that was many years ago, it’s still what feels natural in my hands. So I started thinking — if I ever get the chance to hunt Cape buffalo, and the situation gets intense, that’s probably the rifle that would come up to my shoulder without hesitation.

That said, given what I know now, I would definitely want something chambered in a more potent round — something with the energy and penetration to do the job right with proper bullets and smart handloads.

That’s why I’ve been curious about what’s actually available in that space — big-bore lever guns like the .50 Alaskan or .500 S&W in a strong platform, modern solid bullets, and 22-inch barrels. I really appreciate the knowledge everyone here has shared. It’s given me a lot to think about — and even more to be curious about.

Thanks, guys.

@DaBill
That's what I love about this forum
People willing to share hard gained first hand knowledge and experiences and people willing to genuinely learn from others and do it all in a good and friendly fashion. Just like a big ol campfire yarn but without the fire.
I'm still learning from people here
It surprising when you really think about it how much you do actually know and how much more you have to learn at the same time.
Bob