Resignation PHASA President

[PHOENIX PHIL]

You JERK!!!

You beat me to It!

 

[LivingTheDream]

Glad I got things back on track.

I think we will see some of the import bans slow down, maybe not a reversal though, from my understanding that is a pretty tough thing to turn around.

So I know it has been said but it is up to hunters to decide how the import ban effects us.

The one exception is I think there was some type of advertising or marketing ban at the major hunting shows for CBL. This would seem to make it harder for a hunter to find these hunts. Im not 100% sure what the exact terms were and I'm sure I am missing a key detail but even though hunters can still do it, the community caved to pressure.

 

[IdaRam]

Holy crap, ya step away for 5 minutes... This has been a very dynamic thread

On a serious note, thank you to all the participants. You guys may have taken the dirt road, but this has been a great discussion. I applaud you all on both sides of the CBL issue. @Red Leg and @Hank2211 you two guys truly have a gift for eloquent and concise expression in written form. I stand in awe of both of you. Well done and thank you!

This is the irony, that some will hunt because of the ban. Unfortunately outweighed by those hunters who support the ban by not hunting (which is their right and a personal subjective ethical choice. @Hank2211 made it clear that I have to support hunters that don't want to hunt because they can't collect trophies ).

From a purely selfish and self serving perspective I like import bans. They are great! They allow me to either afford hunts that I couldn't before the ban, or to drive the price down to the point that I'd consider hunting an animal that would have been too low "on the list" before.

Looking at the bigger picture though, they hurt the animal's, no doubt... it's a real shame that so many hunters choose to make them so effective.

I find myself in the same position @Royal27 . These import bans frustrate me to no end, but because of them, and maybe only because of them, may I actually be able to experience hunting elephant.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Back to the thread derailment......if we continue on with this puppet activity, I think we should include:

 

[Hank2211]

This is the irony, that some will hunt because of the ban. Unfortunately outweighed by those hunters who support the ban by not hunting (which is their right and a personal subjective ethical choice. @Hank2211 made it clear that I have to support hunters that don't want to hunt because they can't collect trophies ).

I've also made it clear that supporting is not the same as agreeing!

I believe bans to be ridiculous, at least in circumstances where quota is otherwise available. CITES apparently believes that you can take elephants from Zimbabwe, and science would back that up, so why does the US government decide that it knows best? Well, because it can, I assume, and because politicians bow to (a) public pressure or (b) donors. Neither involves science to any degree. Just like trying to ban the hunting of captive bred lions, by the way . . .

What an imbecilic thing to say?

Now this is interesting. This is, to my knowledge, the first appearance in AH of the word "imbecilic," a word I suggest should be used far more often than it is. But Phil seems to be unsure of himself. Why the "?", I ask? Are you unsure if it's imbecilic Phil? Take a leaf from my book and sound confident, even if you aren't. As my wife says about me "rarely right but never in doubt." Words to live by.

 

[Pheroze]

My personal favourite insult (from another thread) was numpty. I am trying to figure out how to use it in court...

 

[lwaters]

Now anybody who can afford a cape buffalo hunt can now afford a tuskless or non importable elephant hunt. Don't really care about the trophy it's the hunt.

 

[Foxi]

"out with it, a new client is comming"

this terrible habit of a hunt,is with distance, the biggest nail on the casket of African hunting.
I will never get tired to say this.
Foxi

 

[BRICKBURN]

context......

 

[lwaters]

They all loved bambi until she ate the bushes by the house and the garden. Now some places deer are look on to as large rats

 

[Hank2211]

context......

View attachment 186836



View attachment 186837



View attachment 186838


View attachment 186839

If I were an insurance company, I would pass on these places!

 

[BRICKBURN]

Liability waiver states you are freely entering a Darwin Award Competition, specify year, and then please proceed.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

My personal favourite insult (from another thread) was numpty. I am trying to figure out how to use it in court...

Pheroze: I guess you never saw "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"

French Knight: I unclog my nose in your direction, sons of a window dresser. So, you think you could outclever us French folks with your silly, knees-bent, running-about, advancing behavior? I wave my private parts at your aunties, you cheesy-leather, second-hand, electric donkey bottom biters.

King Arthur: In the name of the Lord, open this door!

French Knight: No chance english bed-wetting types. I burst my pimples at you and call your door-opening request a silly thing; you tiny brained wipers of other peoples’ bottoms.

Monty Python and the Holy Grail


“I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.”
― Graham Chapman, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

 

[buck wild]

So I've be following along and never looked into lion hunting in SA before, at least not to any real degree.

View attachment 186832
"out with it, a new client is comming"

this terrible habit of a hunt,is with distance, the biggest nail on the casket of African hunting.
I will never get tired to say this.
Foxi

Is this really how the majority of the high fence lion hunting is done there ( and yes I'm being serious) ? I knew they were basically raised off site but I assumed they were released on these large Kalahari places well in advance of the hunt to the point the loins had become self sufficient. I think we can all get passed the 10 acre enclosure true canned hunt as not being anything the majority of hunters would support, but sitting loose 5 lions on 50,ooo acres well in advance of the hunt. I assumed this was how they were conducted. I'll appreciate more info about the how so I can be better informed on the subject.
Thanks

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Pheroze: I guess you never saw "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"

French Knight: I unclog my nose in your direction, sons of a window dresser. So, you think you could outclever us French folks with your silly, knees-bent, running-about, advancing behavior? I wave my private parts at your aunties, you cheesy-leather, second-hand, electric donkey bottom biters.

King Arthur: In the name of the Lord, open this door!

French Knight: No chance english bed-wetting types. I burst my pimples at you and call your door-opening request a silly thing; you tiny brained wipers of other peoples’ bottoms.

Monty Python and the Holy Grail


“I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.”
― Graham Chapman, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

@Pheroze,

In case you've not seen it, for full enjoyment, see video below. I'm beginning to think that Jerome @AfricaHunting.com is the taunter.

 

[gizmo]

So I've be following along and never looked into lion hunting in SA before, at least not to any real degree.



Is this really how the majority of the high fence lion hunting is done there ( and yes I'm being serious) ? I knew they were basically raised off site but I assumed they were released on these large Kalahari places well in advance of the hunt to the point the loins had become self sufficient. I think we can all get passed the 10 acre enclosure true canned hunt as not being anything the majority of hunters would support, but sitting loose 5 lions on 50,ooo acres well in advance of the hunt. I assumed this was how they were conducted. I'll appreciate more info about the how so I can be better informed on the subject.
Thanks

No it's not and that's why I'm so damn sick of many beating this to death. I have done it, 99% of those who criticize have not. They make assumptions on hear say and a very small percentage of bad apples that have been in the media. Many of them do much more to spread half truths and whole lies through arrogance and ignorance. I hunted my lion in as fair chase conditions in the kalahari as any other lion hunt in Africa. Further I didn't shoot it from them comfort of a baited blind. I walked miles tracking on foot and took him honorably on his terms. And yes there were lionesses and yes they could breed and yes we saw plenty of lion kills on a 39,000 hectare hunting reserve. There is very minimal human intervention. I am under no illusions that the lions there were not at some point brought in. The fact is that there are numerous laws regarding lion hunts in SA and miles of paperwork to ensure it's done ethically and legally. I know I've done it. I'm sure there are outfitters that have broken the laws in regards to lion hunts and I will be the first to crucify them if they have violated the law.
Further, @Reg Leg, I happen to have Texas Dall as well as many other sheep and exotic species under 700 acres of high fence. Before the high fence I had the exotic sheep and goats under a low fence which we sold these "shoots" as you call them. There are several long time members here on this very website that hunted with me who you are insulting in addition to myself. You have never been to my place and have no knowledge of how my hunting operations are conducted. So by saying that it's a "shoot" and talking down to me and those members here, of which there are many, who hunt with me is very insulting. I don't give a damn if it's not your cup of tea. I don't care what you deem as a hunt or not and I wholly support your right to your opinion and your right to hunt in any manner you deem fit. I don't appreciate being talked down to and insulted repeatedly by you or anyone else, especially when you have never stepped foot on my ranch or met me and spent any time around me. So if you wonder why I've called you self entitled and hollier than thou ( please note I wanted to make sure thou wasn't autocorrected to tho this time though I make no garauntee on the rest as I'm working this weekend and only have a limited time to post) then there you have it.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

So I've be following along and never looked into lion hunting in SA before, at least not to any real degree.



Is this really how the majority of the high fence lion hunting is done there ( and yes I'm being serious) ? I knew they were basically raised off site but I assumed they were released on these large Kalahari places well in advance of the hunt to the point the loins had become self sufficient. I think we can all get passed the 10 acre enclosure true canned hunt as not being anything the majority of hunters would support, but sitting loose 5 lions on 50,ooo acres well in advance of the hunt. I assumed this was how they were conducted. I'll appreciate more info about the how so I can be better informed on the subject.
Thanks

The short answer to you question is no. Please see my hunt report from Serapa from this past October. I'd look up the link, but I got ribs to attend to.

EDIT: I would add however this is where the problem lies. It has happened in the past and may still be continuing. However, please don't wrap all operators in the same blanket.

 

[gizmo]

You can also look at my hunt report as well @buck wild. I will get the link if you'd like.

 

[siml]

@gizmo , I know you did your lion hunt to the book, we have had plenty discussions with each other about it. Unfortunately there are far too many that aren't been done to the book or ethically. 15 years ago I was all for bred lion hunting, (note I didn't say canned hunting) in my opinion it was saving the low numbers of wild lions. At that stage they were worried all the lions in the Kruger national park were going to die from TB, so if this had happened there would be enough lions in the Free State to restock the KNP or other areas. Then it all seem to change into a lion factory, big money, BUT the money wasn't being used to support conservation. Now we all argue that the $$$$ spent on hunting goes back into conservation and this is vital if hunting is going to continue, it's the best argument we have to support hunting. CBL was beginning to destroy the ethics of hunting. Some outfitters were shooting over 300 lions a season, just seemed to lose the plot to me.

Sitting in a blind is not a walk in the park, I have been chased out of blinds by elephant, had 3 leopards circling our blind, heard enough close calls by outfitters about sitting in blinds.

 

[billc]

Buck wild there is always good and bad told about lions. My sons hunt was on a place of 10,ooo plus acres and had 5 lions out with 3 of them being females. One female had been out for over 6 month and all had been out 2 weeks or more. The law is something like 5 or 7 days I believe they must be before being hunted. When we hunted my son Jacques at the time was with hartzview and hunting at the same time as us on that ranch. It was big enough we never saw him and he did not see us. We saw many different lion tracks crossing the roads as we searched for the lioness. There was game out for them to hunt on there own and that game acted like there was big cats around.

Now it may not be for everyone but I think what gave some of the bad issue with lions was you could pick from a picture what lion you may want to hunt and they were sold by mane and age class. So even with some lions out at all time a certain one could be added at anytime and normally was released a week before the hunter comes into camp for his hunt. I think this is one of the gray areas and what is hard for some to get over. To me I think a lion will always be wild and will hunt on there own as soon as they get hungry. I also think any of these lions would kill a hunter in a blink of an eye.

Sorry to say some of it just comes done to cost and what each hunter is willing to pay. Lions eat game so the longer they are out the more they cost to have out. I think it would be great if lions could be out for 6 month or more but the cost would put limits on who would hunt them. So for me it was find what I was ok with and could afford to pay and decide if that was ok for me. I was ok with it so we HUNTED a lioness.

I can say with out a doubt a raised lion hunt is not for everyone but has a place when done right.