Resignation PHASA President

[billc]

I know the stupid movie did not help us but never got the attention the people doing it thought it would. The general public was not running to see it. But the general public had the cecil story shoved down there throat if they watched any news channel. I was talking mainly that the cecil story hit more of the general public that everyone thinks we need to win over.

I also saw the cecil story on tv way after the times you posted and have heard it brought up in the last few month even on shows just not with the same amount of drama around it now.

Either way to blame raised lions on all the problems we face now is bs. They hated hunting before the first raised lion was shot and will still hate hunting if it is stopped. Like I said before I am sure the same guys who talk bs on raised lions will be asking us who think it is ok to stand with them when they really try and stop leopard hunting. Then us shooters not hunters will be needed because it is about something they think is ok.



Simon I hear you about Bobs hunt but he was also told what it was by some of us before he went. We offered a lion hunt for what we knew it was but he was taken for a ride by someone he believed was giving him what he was asking for. It was a sad deal and bob was cheated for sure.

 

[johnnyblues]

I for one could never afford a true wild lion hunt. After reading my buddy @gizmo's report on his lion hunt I was literally on the edge of my seat. I would hunt captive breed lion in a heart beat. No one can tell me there every bit as dangerous as a wild lion.

 

[Red Leg]

Is it more profitable to raise game over is sheep cattle and goats a better deal. I once head that game produced more pounds or meat per section of land in parts of Africa.

It's not the meat - it is the total profit on the respective animals. You have to get up to an eland to equal the meat volume of a steer. But we aren't really talking a meat volume comparison. Total profit includes whatever margin is created from the daily rate, trophy fees, meat sales (and cost avoidance by utilizing wild game meat), and tips. Top line is quite a bit higher than a simple cattle ranch. HOWEVER, expenses are much higher as well. Infrastructure costs for guests, higher cost employees (additional PHs), stocking costs for animals not indigenous to the farm, advertising, etc, etc. And just over the horizon is the next market correction which keeps people like you and me home for a few years. In a well run hunting operation, the balance sheet likely will be better than the typical cattle ranch, but not many folks are getting rich at it (or cattle ranching for that matter).

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

This news article quotes the producer of Blood Lions........


http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...nt-resigns-over-captive-lion-hunting-20170523

Hunting Association's president resigns over 'captive lion hunting'
2017-05-23 20:11
Simon Bloch, News24 correspondent

Johannesburg- Reeling under a massive backlash from supporters of the captive lion hunting industry and a huge split within the ranks of its membership, the president of the Professional Hunting Association of South Africa [Phasa], Stan Burger, unexpectedly announced his resignation on Tuesday with immediate effect.

In a statement, Phasa said its President-Elect, Dries Van Coller, will now be at the helm.

Asked what had led to Burger's resignation, and why the executive was not supporting Burger against the backlash, spokesperson Retha van Reenen said, "let me put it into perspective. A lot of the members decided not to sign an affidavit sent out last year that they would not support or promote captive lion hunting or captive lion breeding activities."

As a body representing and promoting the interests of professional hunters, Phasa has faced an inordinate amount of challenges.


None more so than the fallout after the 2015 announcement that it had adopted a resolution at its annual general meeting to distance itself from the captive lion breeding and captive lion hunting industries.

In November 2016, a group of 13 Phasa members challenged the resolution and its constitutionality and took Phasa to the High Court in Pretoria where it argued Phasa had acted illegally when it took steps to suspend their memberships.

In its affidavit opposing their application‚, Phasa said some of the applicants were members of another hunting organisation, known as the South African Predators Association‚ which was in favour of captive-bred lion hunting.

Phasa said after receiving responses from the 13 members‚ it decided to lift the suspension of three members who had explained that they were not involved in the breeding and hunting of captive lions.

At the time, Burger said his organisation stood by its resolution to distance itself from captive-bred lion hunting and would defend its resolution in court.

Phasa said it gave the applicants seven days within which to provide reasons why their membership should not be terminated.

According to the judgment that was eventually handed down, Phasa lost the case.

In a statement, Burger said, "It has been a privilege to serve the association, but the time has come for others to now carry the torch". Van Coller said Phasa would continue with minimum disruption as the association continued to serve the members of the professional hunting fraternity of South Africa.

Andrew Venter, CEO of Wildlands Trust and executive producer of the documentary film Blood Lions, told News 24, “It would be tragic for the South African hunting and tourism industries if Phasa were to backtrack on its commitment to stop the hunting of captive bred lions in South Africa.

“Stan Burger has led the charge to clean up the hunting industry in this regard, something I can attest to that there is little doubt."

He said Phasa had, for the past 18 months, been under significant pressure from the "unethical hunting fraternity in South Africa".

"It's unfortunate that it appears that this faction may be prevailing. The fallout from the local and global outrage will further damage the industry and South Africa's conservation reputation," Venter said.

 

[Pheroze]

Asked what had led to Burger's resignation, and why the executive was not supporting Burger against the backlash, spokesperson Retha van Reenen said, "let me put it into perspective. A lot of the members decided not to sign an affidavit sent out last year that they would not support or promote captive lion hunting or captive lion breeding activities."

I would say that as a spokesperson Retha van Reenen gets a failing grade What a stupid way of presenting anything. Surely to Pete the Board had considered a position statement?

 

[BWH]

Won't disagree.... seems there are the hunters & the antis....... Joseph vs Goliaths..... we speak individually they speak in masses. Mainly, they do in protest or in stardom.... typically, we do not or crave.

Typo.... meant David vs Goliath.

 

[Red Leg]

Crazy idea, but the one worst part about belonging to DSC or SCI is the over the top banquets held each year to "honor" the person that has killed the most animals, how about give the "award" a bit more quietly and take the money used for the banquet for a film or at least a lobbyist. DSC has at least 700 people and at a minimum of $40 each would be $28K and at least 2 banquets a year, add in what is done at SCI and you could easily raise $100K . I know they auction hunts at the banquets but you can bid on them online without even showing up. Anybody know anyone on the board to give them the idea?

But that is what SCI does, to include utilizing any margin generated by the banquets. All of the profit generated from the show goes into the SCI budget. A meaningful portion of that is then directly used for hunter advocacy to include lobbying activity. Huge arguments and battles have been waged over how effectively the leadership has targeted those dollars (enough that DSC splintered off), but that is the intent.

Actual award costs are a pretty small entry on the balance sheet. The typical member awards for completing some slam or the other are funded by the member. The big awards are typically targeted at folks who generate resources as well as hunt a lot - say someone like Larry Potterfield of Midway. That "expense" is really thus an investment.

If you don't like how they are doing it, by all means get involved and sell members on your ideas.

 

[K-man]

But that is what SCI does, to include utilizing any margin generated by the banquets. All of the profit generated from the show goes into the SCI budget. A meaningful portion of that is then directly used for hunter advocacy to include lobbying activity. Huge arguments and battles have been waged over how effectively the leadership has targeted those dollars (enough that DSC splintered off), but that is the intent.

Actual award costs are a pretty small entry on the balance sheet. The typical member awards for completing some slam or the other are funded by the member. The big awards are typically targeted at folks who generate resources as well as hunt a lot - say someone like Larry Potterfield of Midway. That "expense" is really thus an investment.

If you don't like how they are doing it, by all means get involved and sell members on your ideas.

Thanks for the clarification. Sometimes ideas sound better until you have all the information.

 

[wesheltonj]

SCI has a office in DC, with lawyers that sue USFWS all the time and lobby. SCI has more or less 50,000 members. DSC on the other had has 6000 members. They have a long way to go before they have the resources of SCI to set up a DC office. Why a good DC lawyer would be a lot more then $100k.

 

[siml]

@375 Ruger Fan , that post will send this thread to at least 22 pages!!!

 

[wesheltonj]

I was just thinking....

. . . I mean things are pretty good here in the States, we don't have any race issues at all, no chance of repatriation of land at all, so let the SA farmers figure it out for themselves. Its their problem and not mine. Something like thst could never happen here. Right?

Far fetched analogy? Maybe... Maybe not....

Your joking about the land repatriation, right. That could happen here, and has.

 

[Royal27]

Your joking about the land repatriation, right. That could happen here, and has.

Correct. Making a point, or was trying too.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@375 Ruger Fan , that post will send this thread to at least 22 pages!!!

 

[BRICKBURN]

........

BTW, we got to 12. Now, it's to infinity and beyond!

 

[IdaRam]

This news article quotes the producer of Blood Lions........


http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...nt-resigns-over-captive-lion-hunting-20170523

Hunting Association's president resigns over 'captive lion hunting'
2017-05-23 20:11
Simon Bloch, News24 correspondent

Johannesburg- Reeling under a massive backlash from supporters of the captive lion hunting industry and a huge split within the ranks of its membership, the president of the Professional Hunting Association of South Africa [Phasa], Stan Burger, unexpectedly announced his resignation on Tuesday with immediate effect.

In a statement, Phasa said its President-Elect, Dries Van Coller, will now be at the helm.

Asked what had led to Burger's resignation, and why the executive was not supporting Burger against the backlash, spokesperson Retha van Reenen said, "let me put it into perspective. A lot of the members decided not to sign an affidavit sent out last year that they would not support or promote captive lion hunting or captive lion breeding activities."

As a body representing and promoting the interests of professional hunters, Phasa has faced an inordinate amount of challenges.


None more so than the fallout after the 2015 announcement that it had adopted a resolution at its annual general meeting to distance itself from the captive lion breeding and captive lion hunting industries.

In November 2016, a group of 13 Phasa members challenged the resolution and its constitutionality and took Phasa to the High Court in Pretoria where it argued Phasa had acted illegally when it took steps to suspend their memberships.

In its affidavit opposing their application‚, Phasa said some of the applicants were members of another hunting organisation, known as the South African Predators Association‚ which was in favour of captive-bred lion hunting.

Phasa said after receiving responses from the 13 members‚ it decided to lift the suspension of three members who had explained that they were not involved in the breeding and hunting of captive lions.

At the time, Burger said his organisation stood by its resolution to distance itself from captive-bred lion hunting and would defend its resolution in court.

Phasa said it gave the applicants seven days within which to provide reasons why their membership should not be terminated.

According to the judgment that was eventually handed down, Phasa lost the case.

In a statement, Burger said, "It has been a privilege to serve the association, but the time has come for others to now carry the torch". Van Coller said Phasa would continue with minimum disruption as the association continued to serve the members of the professional hunting fraternity of South Africa.

Andrew Venter, CEO of Wildlands Trust and executive producer of the documentary film Blood Lions, told News 24, “It would be tragic for the South African hunting and tourism industries if Phasa were to backtrack on its commitment to stop the hunting of captive bred lions in South Africa.

“Stan Burger has led the charge to clean up the hunting industry in this regard, something I can attest to that there is little doubt."

He said Phasa had, for the past 18 months, been under significant pressure from the "unethical hunting fraternity in South Africa".

"It's unfortunate that it appears that this faction may be prevailing. The fallout from the local and global outrage will further damage the industry and South Africa's conservation reputation," Venter said.

If ever we needed a "shoots self in foot" emoji! God help us.
Can someone please hand Ms. Reetha van Reenen another can of petrol?

I realize and fully admit, when it comes to PHASA I cannot speak from a position of informed intelligence. All I can do is evaluate what I see from a distance and form an opinion based on that. But what I have seen from PHASA (and in some cases NAPHA) is internal politics, changing the rules after the fact, attempts to thin the ranks of those who dissent by any means, etc.
Really? Seven whole days within which to provide reasons why their membership should not be terminated? That doesn't seem like a whole lot of time.
I get it, PHASA adopted a position which does not support CBL hunting. Fine. If that is the mood of the majority, so be it. But please don't do and say stupid crap that anyone can clearly see is just going to add fuel to the fire, embolden and empower the anti's with ammunition for their talking points and undermine hunting in general.
In summary, my "at a distance perception of PHASA" is the governing body of that organization is behaving like a bunch of morons!
Rant over

 

[lionman]

In 2010 i booked a 21 day safari for myself in Tanzania with Robin Hurt Safaris. Hunted a full bag with legendary Andre de Kock. We drove a total of 227 km putting up baits and dragging bait (buffalo and zebra) and check them every day. We build 3 hides where bait were hit by lion. One afternoon a large black maned came into eat. Sitting safely on a chair behind a grass shelter seeing this lion feeding was great. Here i am in 500 000 plus acres and not walked 1 mile om any lion track and having this opportunity to "hunt" this free ranging lion. I did not take this shot and declined to shoot this or any lion this way again. Andre understood my feelings. I do not condemn shooting lion this way but for personal reasons. I will congratulate any hunter shooting his lion from hides.. its just not my cup of tea..but i will never condemn any other hunter for doing so. We are on the same team we just differ in ways we hunt

 

[BRICKBURN]

If ever we needed a "shoots self in foot" emoji! God help us.
Can someone please hand Ms. Reetha van Reenen another can of petrol? .......

There are huge wells just waiting to blow out.

It is an issue that is certainly not resolved. A majority at a meeting made a decision and then someone apparently made a booboo in interpretation (or otherwise).

The organization needs to present a resolution and include all the facets of the issue so they may move forward with a vote and get on with hunting.

I wish them well.

 

[gizmo]

I think PHASA is a mess at the moment. They tried to do the politically correct thing and it blew up in their face. The phrase, "biting the hand that feeds you" comes to mind. As hunters we need to be very careful to not cave to political correctness. For every inch we give we loose miles. We need to unite, stand up, and flood the media with truthful information. As it is we stay divided, bicker amongst ourselves over who's ethics are right or wrong, and are wholly reactive. Taking the initiative on a united front would go a long way to winning. Unfortunately that's not going to happen.

 

[gizmo]

If we would just stand up together and win the war there would be plenty of time to fight and bicker over the small stuff later.

 

[IdaRam]

I have seen bickering, politics and self serving agendas within organizations and what we seem to be seeing from PHASA bears a striking resemblance to that.
Some within PHASA seem to have made such a monumental and divisive issue of the CBL topic that it has consumed the organization and is probably inhibiting their effectiveness on every other front.
A house divided soon falls...
I too wish them the very best. Someone needs to knock some heads and tell everyone to pull up their big boy pants, un-bunch their panties and get down to the business of coming together and moving forward as a cohesive group. Unfortunately I fear the leadership are the ones who need to hear that message.
The organization's behavior and press releases are not helping their image at all!