Pre-64 Winchester 70 9.3x64 Brenneke - The mystery continues

[spike.t]

A dear friend and forum member has educated me on this. And yes its freeking nuts. I prefer the way we look at firearms in the UK. I'll just stick to the British and European stuff.

Good now I have done my international peace keeping duties ...let's move on to the next one....

 

[Red Leg]

You beat me to it. That and I didnt beleve you

So peace? I'll buy the next round in the post-covid world.

 

[lwaters]

The Model 42 is a wonderful thing. Like all collectable firearms it depends. For basic models like this "Blue Book of Gun Values" is hard to beat.

Your photo is crap which complicates valuation because percentage of original condition is everything. One in 100% condition without a solid rib is a $2K gun and frankly, in the right auction would push $3K. HOWEVER, the same gun in 60% condition is valued at $875. I can't tell anything about the metal condition from the photo or whether it has ever been reblued. HOWEVER, that white line pachmayr pad and cut stock to attach it are value killers. If the metal is otherwise 90% and never been refinished, it might be considered a 80% gun and would be worth a grand or a little more. I suspect most dealers would mark it $1200. If it is a 70 - 80% gun with the pad, I would fetch around $800 - $900.

That is my opinion without being able to hold it.

Yes I have heard that the recoil pad hurt the value.

 

[norfolk shooter]

So peace? I'll buy the next round in the post-covid world.

I'll get the first round in as long as @spike.t isnt within a 100km radius

 

[rookhawk]

Yes I have heard that the recoil pad hurt the value.

in the states the first step would be verifying there isn’t a build sheet for that serial number in the Cody museum. Step 2 would be finding a vintage Winchester pad and installing it with the perfect amount of wear to match the gun. Step 3 would be to lie, swearing it was your grandads gun and he ordered it from the factory that way and you’re positive of that fact. Step 4 would be selling the gun for an extra $1200 based on such persuasion. <-and that’s why I hate Winchester collecting!

 

[Red Leg]

in the states the first step would be verifying there isn’t a build sheet for that serial number in the Cody museum. Step 2 would be finding a vintage Winchester pad and installing it with the perfect amount of wear to match the gun. Step 3 would be to lie, swearing it was your grandads gun and he ordered it from the factory that way and you’re positive of that fact. Step 4 would be selling the gun for an extra $1200 based on such persuasion. <-and that’s why I hate Winchester collecting!

Sad, but all too true.

 

[spike.t]

I'll get the first round in as long as @spike.t isnt within a 100km radius

 

[norfolk shooter]

in the states the first step would be verifying there isn’t a build sheet for that serial number in the Cody museum. Step 2 would be finding a vintage Winchester pad and installing it with the perfect amount of wear to match the gun. Step 3 would be to lie, swearing it was your grandads gun and he ordered it from the factory that way and you’re positive of that fact. Step 4 would be selling the gun for an extra $1200 based on such persuasion. <-and that’s why I hate Winchester collecting!

Thats a sad state of affairs. Whats the appeal in collecting Winchesters if its so fraught with fraud??

 

[norfolk shooter]

I know you would order an entire bottle of 35 year old Macallan and I would need a bank loan for it

 

[rookhawk]

Thats a sad state of affairs. Whats the appeal in collecting Winchesters if its so fraught with fraud??

for you and me? Nothing.

but you know what’s a bargain? ”ruined” Winchester’s.

that unfired, never handled, in the box with papers pre-64 model 70 is worth $8000, but you can't even handle it. Same gun with a recoil pad added, drilled and tapped for a scope, no box and papers, 98% condition? A glorious hunting rifle for $1000, Better than anything new you can buy for $1000. Honest, reasonably used Winchesters are great guns for fair value. Just avoid buying “true” collector grade ones or your errors will quickly mount to a $50,000 “tuition” as you learn about forgeries.

 

[spike.t]

I know you would order an entire bottle of 35 year old Macallan and I would need a bank loan for it

Dont drink whiskey...but now I know what to order you are fkd.....but joe likes whiskey so I will give it to him and order something else for myself like a decanter of Taylors 1927 or 1945 vintage port...depending on what's available....that will add to your bank loan...

 

[norfolk shooter]

Dont drink whiskey...but now I know what to order you are fkd.....but joe likes whiskey so I will give it to him and order something else for myself like a decanter of Taylors 1927 or 1945 vintage port...depending on what's available....that will add to your bank loan...

What are you like

 

[norfolk shooter]

for you and me? Nothing.

but you know what’s a bargain? ”ruined” Winchester’s.

that unfired, never handled, in the box with papers pre-64 model 70 is worth $8000, but you can't even handle it. Same gun with a recoil pad added, drilled and tapped for a scope, no box and papers, 98% condition? A glorious hunting rifle for $1000, Better than anything new you can buy for $1000. Honest, reasonably used Winchesters are great guns for fair value. Just avoid buying “true” collector grade ones or your errors will quickly mount to a $50,000 “tuition” as you learn about forgeries.

So if I buy a Winchester keep the bill of sale box etc and dont use it by this time im 80 of 90 I can sell it to one of you guys across the pond for loads of money? I can take photos of my in the shop buying it to prove its the one

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

So if I buy a Winchester keep the bill of sale box etc and dont use it by this time im 80 of 90 I can sell it to one of you guys across the pond for loads of money? I can take photos of my in the shop buying it to prove its the one

to My limited knowledge not unless you’ve got a time machine and can do it prior to 1964.

 

[norfolk shooter]

to My limited knowledge not unless you’ve got a time machine and can do it prior to 1964.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge but what happened after 1964??

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Please excuse my lack of knowledge but what happened after 1964??

The techniques used in the construction of the rifles changed, one of our forum members will be able to shed more light on the specifics of the changes.

 

[norfolk shooter]

The techniques used in the construction of the rifles changed, one of our forum members will be able to shed more light on the specifics of the changes.

Got ya like when Remington took over Marlin

 

[Red Leg]

Thats a sad state of affairs. Whats the appeal in collecting Winchesters if its so fraught with fraud??

I won't touch them (literally or figuratively).

The same madness prevails with Colts - particularly the single action army, and increasingly pre-1945 Model 1911's. There was huge disturbance in the force a few years ago when one of the supposedly documented L.C. Smith "Deluxe" grade 20 bores came out of a well known collection for auction sale and was subsequently declared a fake.

As @rookhawk notes, the lightly used guns in standard grades and calibers can be great acquisitions. The rare grades or rare configurations in standard grades are the basis of the collecting world. I will not touch them.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge but what happened after 1964??

In 1964, the Winchester accountants took charge of production and the grand old company began to turn out some of the worst firearms ever produced anywhere outside the Iron Curtain. For instance, the CRF action of the Model 70 was discarded for a cheaper push feed design: cut checkering was replaced with machine pressed "checkering"; and dozens of other production short cuts across their product line. All of the Winchester collector pieces (I do not count the occasional contrived limited edition runs) were built before 1964.

 

[lwaters]

in the states the first step would be verifying there isn’t a build sheet for that serial number in the Cody museum. Step 2 would be finding a vintage Winchester pad and installing it with the perfect amount of wear to match the gun. Step 3 would be to lie, swearing it was your grandads gun and he ordered it from the factory that way and you’re positive of that fact. Step 4 would be selling the gun for an extra $1200 based on such persuasion. QUOTE]It did belong to my deceased father in law. Don't know if he bought it new or what. My wife ended up with it when he died. She was offered $800 for it but wouldn't sell.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

but you know what’s a bargain? ”ruined” Winchester’s.

I love ruined Winchester’s, I picked up a model 12 at an auction for $175. It had been re blued, but is an awesome shooter.