Politics

Altitude sickness · Mar 21, 2024

Hunter, you’re correct. That’s why those Russians were led into that trap. They obviously are not trained in modern warfare. The battlefield visibility and real time awareness alone gives the Ukrainians a huge advantage.

I actually feel bad for those Russians. Led into an obvious trap. Then scattered and hit with drones.

The quote “ Gary needs to be fired” cracked me up.

The guy moving the Ukrainian chess pieces was doing a nice job. But man, I would have to tell him to lay off the coffee and quit yelling in my ear. :5 of that and I would remove my ear bud

Dude I can hear you. Take a breath and calm down

PARA45 · Mar 21, 2024

Brent in Az · Mar 21, 2024

albravo said:
Yeah, better to let Russia win so fuel cost stays low until they decide to take Alaska.

History repeats itself and an isolationist US is asking for a reminder of that fact

Yeah, sure! Russia will just come marching into Alaska.....LOL

Brent in Az · Mar 21, 2024

PARA45 said:
View attachment 594589

You forgot to add George Soros to the meme.

jpr9954 · Mar 21, 2024

Tundra Tiger said:
Rock solid at this price since late summer/early fall. Ours usually only changes once or twice a year, based on barge delivery of fuel. While some will gasp, it's been as high as seven and a half, so I'm not complaining.

View attachment 594531

I won't be complaining about paying $2.92 a gallon in NC. Barge delivery is going to be much more costly than being near a pipeline coming up from the Gulf Coast.

Doubleplay · Mar 21, 2024

Whoever here complaining about fuel prices better take a look at this:

nflation Adjusted Gasoline Prices (1978-2022)
Category: Gasoline (All types, Per gallon)

Year	Average Gasoline Prices by Year*	Average Annual CPI for Gasoline**	Gas Prices Adjusted for Inflation (In 2022 Dollars)
1978	0.652	51.900	$4.37
1979	0.882	70.200	$4.37
1980	1.221	97.500	$4.36
1981	1.353	108.500	$4.34
1982	1.281	102.800	$4.33
1983	1.225	99.400	$4.28
1984	1.198	97.800	$4.26
1985	1.196	98.600	$4.22
1986	0.931	77.000	$4.20
1987	0.957	80.100	$4.16
1988	0.964	80.800	$4.15
1989	1.060	88.500	$4.17
1990	1.217	101.000	$4.19
1991	1.196	99.200	$4.19
1992	1.190	99.000	$4.18
1993	1.173	97.700	$4.17
1994	1.174	98.200	$4.16
1995	1.205	99.800	$4.20
1996	1.288	105.900	$4.23
1997	1.291	105.800	$4.24
1998	1.115	91.600	$4.23
1999	1.221	100.100	$4.24
2000	1.563	128.600	$4.23
2001	1.531	124.000	$4.29
2002	1.441	116.000	$4.32
2003	1.638	135.100	$4.22
2004	1.923	159.700	$4.19
2005	2.338	194.700	$4.18
2006	2.635	219.900	$4.17
2007	2.849	237.959	$4.16
2008	3.317	277.457	$4.16
2009	2.401	201.555	$4.14
2010	2.836	238.594	$4.13
2011	3.577	301.694	$4.12
2012	3.695	311.470	$4.13
2013	3.584	302.577	$4.12
2014	3.425	290.889	$4.09
2015	2.510	212.007	$4.12
2016	2.204	187.602	$4.08
2017	2.469	211.770	$4.05
2018	2.794	240.599	$4.04
2019	2.698	232.003	$4.04
2020	2.242	194.130	$4.02
2021	3.133	264.017	$4.13
2022	4.192	347.747	$4.19

Brent in Az · Mar 21, 2024

Greed—not inflation, true motivation behind skyrocketing car and home insurance rates say Arizona residents - Northeast Valley News

Arizonans expect temperatures to increase this time of the year but no one anticipated the rapid rise in home and car insurance rates and Valley residents are asking why. Insurance rates have skyrocketed across the country but Arizonans are puzzled by the large increases in a short amount of...

nevalleynews.org

Brent in Az · Mar 21, 2024

Doubleplay said:
Whoever here complaining about fuel prices better take a look at this:

nflation Adjusted Gasoline Prices (1978-2022)
Category: Gasoline (All types, Per gallon)

Year
Average Gasoline Prices by Year*
Average Annual CPI for Gasoline**
Gas Prices Adjusted for Inflation (In 2022 Dollars)
1978
0.652
51.900
$4.37
1979
0.882
70.200
$4.37
1980
1.221
97.500
$4.36
1981
1.353
108.500
$4.34
1982
1.281
102.800
$4.33
1983
1.225
99.400
$4.28
1984
1.198
97.800
$4.26
1985
1.196
98.600
$4.22
1986
0.931
77.000
$4.20
1987
0.957
80.100
$4.16
1988
0.964
80.800
$4.15
1989
1.060
88.500
$4.17
1990
1.217
101.000
$4.19
1991
1.196
99.200
$4.19
1992
1.190
99.000
$4.18
1993
1.173
97.700
$4.17
1994
1.174
98.200
$4.16
1995
1.205
99.800
$4.20
1996
1.288
105.900
$4.23
1997
1.291
105.800
$4.24
1998
1.115
91.600
$4.23
1999
1.221
100.100
$4.24
2000
1.563
128.600
$4.23
2001
1.531
124.000
$4.29
2002
1.441
116.000
$4.32
2003
1.638
135.100
$4.22
2004
1.923
159.700
$4.19
2005
2.338
194.700
$4.18
2006
2.635
219.900
$4.17
2007
2.849
237.959
$4.16
2008
3.317
277.457
$4.16
2009
2.401
201.555
$4.14
2010
2.836
238.594
$4.13
2011
3.577
301.694
$4.12
2012
3.695
311.470
$4.13
2013
3.584
302.577
$4.12
2014
3.425
290.889
$4.09
2015
2.510
212.007
$4.12
2016
2.204
187.602
$4.08
2017
2.469
211.770
$4.05
2018
2.794
240.599
$4.04
2019
2.698
232.003
$4.04
2020
2.242
194.130
$4.02
2021
3.133
264.017
$4.13
2022
4.192
347.747
$4.19

I guess we better not complain about fuel prices, wasteful spending, greed, or anything else draining our wallets.

ActionBob · Mar 21, 2024

Doubleplay said:
Whoever here complaining about fuel prices better take a look at this:

nflation Adjusted Gasoline Prices (1978-2022)
Category: Gasoline (All types, Per gallon)

Year
Average Gasoline Prices by Year*
Average Annual CPI for Gasoline**
Gas Prices Adjusted for Inflation (In 2022 Dollars)
1978
0.652
51.900
$4.37
1979
0.882
70.200
$4.37
1980
1.221
97.500
$4.36
1981
1.353
108.500
$4.34
1982
1.281
102.800
$4.33
1983
1.225
99.400
$4.28
1984
1.198
97.800
$4.26
1985
1.196
98.600
$4.22
1986
0.931
77.000
$4.20
1987
0.957
80.100
$4.16
1988
0.964
80.800
$4.15
1989
1.060
88.500
$4.17
1990
1.217
101.000
$4.19
1991
1.196
99.200
$4.19
1992
1.190
99.000
$4.18
1993
1.173
97.700
$4.17
1994
1.174
98.200
$4.16
1995
1.205
99.800
$4.20
1996
1.288
105.900
$4.23
1997
1.291
105.800
$4.24
1998
1.115
91.600
$4.23
1999
1.221
100.100
$4.24
2000
1.563
128.600
$4.23
2001
1.531
124.000
$4.29
2002
1.441
116.000
$4.32
2003
1.638
135.100
$4.22
2004
1.923
159.700
$4.19
2005
2.338
194.700
$4.18
2006
2.635
219.900
$4.17
2007
2.849
237.959
$4.16
2008
3.317
277.457
$4.16
2009
2.401
201.555
$4.14
2010
2.836
238.594
$4.13
2011
3.577
301.694
$4.12
2012
3.695
311.470
$4.13
2013
3.584
302.577
$4.12
2014
3.425
290.889
$4.09
2015
2.510
212.007
$4.12
2016
2.204
187.602
$4.08
2017
2.469
211.770
$4.05
2018
2.794
240.599
$4.04
2019
2.698
232.003
$4.04
2020
2.242
194.130
$4.02
2021
3.133
264.017
$4.13
2022
4.192
347.747
$4.19

So what I'm reading here is that markets work!

It also shows that the gasoline market has been able to maintain Parity. I thought that industry has gained more efficiency than that.

Agriculture's Holy Grail has been to maintain Parity Prices with the old heyday base period of 1914.

Agriculture is no where close. We have gained so much efficiency that it has not been reasonable to maintain prices that high. I maintain that is the single biggest reason the economy has grown so much. Us 1.5% of the population produce the food, fiber, alcohol, pet food and bio fuels for the entire population. The rest of you all can therefore do other things....

Tanks · Mar 21, 2024

ActionBob said:
It also shows that the gasoline market has been able to maintain Parity. I thought that industry has gained more efficiency than that.

It has gained more efficiency, the refined products are being produced in a much safer and cleaner manner. NOx, SOx and CO emitted through the stacks is a fraction of what it was decades ago. My company has installed CEMS (continuous emissions monitoring system) at every refinery in the LA basin since mid 90s and I have seen the pollution totals come down tons each year.

ActionBob · Mar 21, 2024

Tanks said:
It has gained more efficiency, the refined products are being produced in a much safer and cleaner manner. NOx, SOx and CO emitted through the stacks is a fraction of what it was decades ago. My company has installed CEMS (continuous emissions monitoring system) at every refinery in the LA basin since mid 90s and I have seen the pollution totals come down tons each year.

I was referring to financial efficiency as well as production. That industry must be pocketing much more profits than I thought if they have gained a lot of operational efficiency AND maintained Pricing Parity.

Unless taxes have eaten up the difference.

Perhaps distribution and retail?

It would probably be more telling to see the same chart on crude oil in addition to gasoline at the pump.

SaintPanzer · Mar 21, 2024

Doubleplay said:
Whoever here complaining about fuel prices better take a look at this:

nflation Adjusted Gasoline Prices (1978-2022)
Category: Gasoline (All types, Per gallon)

Year
Average Gasoline Prices by Year*
Average Annual CPI for Gasoline**
Gas Prices Adjusted for Inflation (In 2022 Dollars)
1978
0.652
51.900
$4.37
1979
0.882
70.200
$4.37
1980
1.221
97.500
$4.36
1981
1.353
108.500
$4.34
1982
1.281
102.800
$4.33
1983
1.225
99.400
$4.28
1984
1.198
97.800
$4.26
1985
1.196
98.600
$4.22
1986
0.931
77.000
$4.20
1987
0.957
80.100
$4.16
1988
0.964
80.800
$4.15
1989
1.060
88.500
$4.17
1990
1.217
101.000
$4.19
1991
1.196
99.200
$4.19
1992
1.190
99.000
$4.18
1993
1.173
97.700
$4.17
1994
1.174
98.200
$4.16
1995
1.205
99.800
$4.20
1996
1.288
105.900
$4.23
1997
1.291
105.800
$4.24
1998
1.115
91.600
$4.23
1999
1.221
100.100
$4.24
2000
1.563
128.600
$4.23
2001
1.531
124.000
$4.29
2002
1.441
116.000
$4.32
2003
1.638
135.100
$4.22
2004
1.923
159.700
$4.19
2005
2.338
194.700
$4.18
2006
2.635
219.900
$4.17
2007
2.849
237.959
$4.16
2008
3.317
277.457
$4.16
2009
2.401
201.555
$4.14
2010
2.836
238.594
$4.13
2011
3.577
301.694
$4.12
2012
3.695
311.470
$4.13
2013
3.584
302.577
$4.12
2014
3.425
290.889
$4.09
2015
2.510
212.007
$4.12
2016
2.204
187.602
$4.08
2017
2.469
211.770
$4.05
2018
2.794
240.599
$4.04
2019
2.698
232.003
$4.04
2020
2.242
194.130
$4.02
2021
3.133
264.017
$4.13
2022
4.192
347.747
$4.19

I'm curious, where did you find this chart?

The reason I ask is I went to the CPI Calculator at bls.gov. I entered in 93 cents (from your chart) for July, 1986. I calculated that worth for February, 2024 (most recent month available). The calculator returned $2.64, which is much less than the $4.20 shown on the chart. I didn't do all the fields as I have a lot of chores I need to finish today, but something just seems off there.

I would also argue that it's not that things are so expensive, it's that your money isn't worth anything. But that's a different conversation.

Calculator can be found here: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Oh, and for those economists saying "things aren't so bad..." Same government calculator. It requires $1.19 today to have the same worth as $1.00 in January, 2021. Good thing inflation is under control, right?

Daniel Cary · Mar 21, 2024

Illegal Immigrants: May now be allowed to own Firearms! .. really going places here.

rookhawk · Mar 21, 2024

SaintPanzer said:
I'm curious, where did you find this chart?

The reason I ask is I went to the CPI Calculator at bls.gov. I entered in 93 cents (from your chart) for July, 1986. I calculated that worth for February, 2024 (most recent month available). The calculator returned $2.64, which is much less than the $4.20 shown on the chart. I didn't do all the fields as I have a lot of chores I need to finish today, but something just seems off there.

I would also argue that it's not that things are so expensive, it's that your money isn't worth anything. But that's a different conversation.

Calculator can be found here: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Oh, and for those economists saying "things aren't so bad..." Same government calculator. It requires $1.19 today to have the same worth as $1.00 in January, 2021. Good thing inflation is under control, right?

More than one way to measure CPI. Here's an article that explains all the versions and their differences: https://www.bls.gov/opub/hom/cpi/presentation.htm

CoElkHunter · Mar 21, 2024

Tanks said:
It has gained more efficiency, the refined products are being produced in a much safer and cleaner manner. NOx, SOx and CO emitted through the stacks is a fraction of what it was decades ago. My company has installed CEMS (continuous emissions monitoring system) at every refinery in the LA basin since mid 90s and I have seen the pollution totals come down tons each year.

I’m sure glad we’re on top of reducing emissions here in the U.S. Meanwhile, China is STILL building TWO coal fired plants a WEEK and India isn’t far behind that. But they live in a different atmosphere so no worries.

Boyd Brooks · Mar 21, 2024

CoElkHunter said:
I’m sure glad we’re on top of reducing emissions here in the U.S. Meanwhile, China is STILL building TWO coal fired plants a WEEK and India isn’t far behind that. But they live in a different atmosphere so no worries.

Wealthy Chinese and Indians don’t invest in Green Energy. They invest in industrial and manufacturing, which requires energy. They don’t make money in there homeland by being woke.

CoElkHunter · Mar 21, 2024

CoElkHunter said:
I’m sure glad we’re on top of reducing emissions here in the U.S. Meanwhile, China is STILL building TWO coal fired plants a WEEK and India isn’t far behind that. But they live in a different atmosphere so no worries.

BTW, the “experts “ have discovered that some 80 percent of Californicate’s “smog” is blowing across the Pacific Ocean from China. I read a detailed scientific article on that sometime ago and I’ve never seen it since. The radical Climate Change Green Energy only crowd don’t want that study to be read by the masses. It would take away from THEIR false narrative that Climate Change is somehow a new phenomenon created by humans since the Industrial Age. Climate Change is REAL and has happened since the first massive volcano eruptions created a livable atmosphere for life on Earth. It will continue to happen until our Sun goes dormant in the next 100 billion years. We humans with our advanced brains (well, some of us) and arrogance believe somehow we can stop what has happened since the beginning of time. Rather, we should be planning to mitigate the effects of the coming changes, but we aren’t.

Randy F · Mar 21, 2024

Daniel Cary said:
Illegal Immigrants: May now be allowed to own Firearms! .. really going places here.

Yep, Where were the gun grabbers on that one?

Tanks · Mar 21, 2024

CoElkHunter said:
I’m sure glad we’re on top of reducing emissions here in the U.S. Meanwhile, China is STILL building TWO coal fired plants a WEEK and India isn’t far behind that. But they live in a different atmosphere so no worries.

Boyd Brooks said:
Wealthy Chinese and Indians don’t invest in Green Energy. They invest in industrial and manufacturing, which requires energy. They don’t make money in there homeland by being woke.

Clean air is not a woke issue. And yes, they live in a different atmosphere in the sense that their pollution mostly stays there and does not impact us as much as our pollution . When I lived in Houston in the 80s I could tell which direction the wind was coming from the stench of pollution coming from Baytown (which has had highest instances of cancer btw).

When I parked at Exxon Olefin plant in Baytown by the time I made it to the control room from the parking lot my nose would be running, and I'd have a headache.

Because someone is damaging their own environment does not mean we should keep damaging ours. We can mostly control only what we do.

CoElkHunter said:
BTW, the “experts “ have discovered that some 80 percent of Californicate’s “smog” is blowing across the Pacific Ocean from China.

Well, since CA implemented strict environmental policies, smog has gone down heck a lot more than the remaining 20%. I have been in CA since 1991 and can tell the difference. We no longer have smog alerts where people are advised to stay indoors. Not everything you read on the Internet is a fact. We measure the pollutants in parts per million and the observations I stated were based on fact.

Finally, I was talking about environmental pollution not "climate change". They are different issues.

Next, you guys will rail against seat belt and child seat rules and airbags.

WAB · Mar 21, 2024

Tanks said:
Clean air is not a woke issue. And yes, they live in a different atmosphere in the sense that their pollution mostly stays there and does not impact us as much as our pollution . When I lived in Houston in the 80s I could tell which direction the wind was coming from the stench of pollution coming from Baytown (which has had highest instances of cancer btw).

When I parked at Exxon Olefin plant in Baytown by the time I made it to the control room from the parking lot my nose would be running, and I'd have a headache.

Because someone is damaging their own environment does not mean we should keep damaging ours. We can mostly control only what we do.

Well, since CA implemented strict environmental policies, smog has gone down heck a lot more than the remaining 20%. I have been in CA since 1991 and can tell the difference. We no longer have smog alerts where people are advised to stay indoors. Not everything you read on the Internet is a fact. We measure the pollutants in parts per million and the observations I stated were based on fact.

Finally, I was talking about environmental pollution not "climate change". They are different issues.

Next, you guys will rail against seat belt and child seat rules and airbags.

Fair points, and I totally support clean air, however your CARB is insane. CARB mogas specs no longer produce any environmental benefit, and yet they won’t move off them. As a result, intermediates are shipped from California refineries to WA refineries and vice versa to juice your mogas to make CARB spec. For that you get the privilege of paying an extra $1.50+ per gallon.

Politics

Altitude sickness

PARA45

Brent in Az

Brent in Az

jpr9954

Doubleplay

Brent in Az

Greed—not inflation, true motivation behind skyrocketing car and home insurance rates say Arizona residents - Northeast Valley News

Brent in Az

ActionBob

Tanks

ActionBob

SaintPanzer

Daniel Cary

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