Politics

[Doubleplay]

I guess we better not complain about fuel prices, wasteful spending, greed, or anything else draining our wallets.

You're complaining about something that stayed the same or went down since 1978 if you understand inflation adjusted price.

 

[Tanks]

Oh yeah, some of the regulations and people enforcing them are insane. We had a permitting issue with an IC engine that was using refinery gas. Finally, the refinery told SCAQMD that if they did not approve it, they'd just flare out the gas instead of using it for fuel and the flare permit was double what they were asking in NOx for the IC engine.

Stories I could tell of my interactions with the SCAQMD people last 30 years...

 

[Doubleplay]

I'm curious, where did you find this chart?

The reason I ask is I went to the CPI Calculator at bls.gov. I entered in 93 cents (from your chart) for July, 1986. I calculated that worth for February, 2024 (most recent month available). The calculator returned $2.64, which is much less than the $4.20 shown on the chart. I didn't do all the fields as I have a lot of chores I need to finish today, but something just seems off there.

I would also argue that it's not that things are so expensive, it's that your money isn't worth anything. But that's a different conversation.

Calculator can be found here: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Oh, and for those economists saying "things aren't so bad..." Same government calculator. It requires $1.19 today to have the same worth as $1.00 in January, 2021. Good thing inflation is under control, right?

www.usinflationcalculator.com
btw this chart stops 2022.

 

[Tanks]

You're complaining about something that stayed the same or went down since 1978.

The "greedy, evil corporation" theme seems to be a common point of congruency between the alt-right Trumpies and the progressive lefties.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Clean air is not a woke issue. And yes, they live in a different atmosphere in the sense that their pollution mostly stays there and does not impact us as much as our pollution . When I lived in Houston in the 80s I could tell which direction the wind was coming from the stench of pollution coming from Baytown (which has had highest instances of cancer btw).

When I parked at Exxon Olefin plant in Baytown by the time I made it to the control room from the parking lot my nose would be running, and I'd have a headache.

Because someone is damaging their own environment does not mean we should keep damaging ours. We can mostly control only what we do.


Well, since CA implemented strict environmental policies, smog has gone down heck a lot more than the remaining 20%. I have been in CA since 1991 and can tell the difference. We no longer have smog alerts where people are advised to stay indoors. Not everything you read on the Internet is a fact. We measure the pollutants in parts per million and the observations I stated were based on fact.

Finally, I was talking about environmental pollution not "climate change". They are different issues.


Next, you guys will rail against seat belt and child seat rules and airbags.

I agree with many things you are saying but IMO it IS tied somewhat to reducing emissions to combat the false narrative of humans are only responsible for causing climate change since the beginning of the last century. Emissions reductions are great as long as they’re cost effective and benefit the health of humans in a measurable way. AND, I don’t look at stuff on the internet. I only read news articles from mainstream media. The scientific study I was referring to was an article from one of the mainstream media sites. Maybe it was proven false but I haven’t read anything about it since.

 

[Doubleplay]

The "greedy, evil corporation" theme seems to be a common point of congruency between the alt-right Trumpies and the progressive lefties.

%100.
However most of the issues they complaint about has nothing to do with presidents and all about supply and demand in a capitalist environment.

 

[ActionBob]

Oh yeah, some of the regulations and people enforcing them are insane. We had a permitting issue with an IC engine that was using refinery gas. Finally, the refinery told SCAQMD that if they did not approve it, they'd just flare out the gas instead of using it for fuel and the flare permit was double what they were asking in NOx for the IC engine.

Stories I could tell of my interactions with the SCAQMD people last 30 years...

Sounds like the Feedlot Permit System. People who produce nothing telling people who produce everything how they should do it.

Atlas Shrugged....

 

[ActionBob]

I agree with many things you are saying but IMO it IS tied somewhat to reducing emissions to combat the false narrative of humans are only responsible for causing climate change since the beginning of the last century. Emissions reductions are great as long as they’re cost effective and benefit the health of humans in a measurable way. AND, I don’t look at stuff on the internet. I only read news articles from mainstream media. The scientific study I was referring to was an article from one of the mainstream media sites. Maybe it was proven false but I haven’t read anything about it since.

I'm always curious about things like Windmill electric generators..... When doing the math on those, do they count the electricity used to smelt the steel? Do they count the mining and transport? Do they count the considerable transport of the windmill components to the construction site? The huge amount of concrete to anchor them and the emissions required to produce that? And have you driven the roads in Kansas and Oklahoma where grooves are worn into the roads from the multitude of trucks? How about the required rebuilding of those roads.... That is not done without burning considerable amounts of fossil fuels...

The same voodoo math was used on ethanol decades ago... that has gotten much more efficient but it used to take more energy to produce it than it provided.

Never trust the math without it being fully explained. Math doesn't lie but people do.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I'm always curious about things like Windmill electric generators..... When doing the math on those, do they count the electricity used to smelt the steel? Do they count the mining and transport? Do they count the considerable transport of the windmill components to the construction site? The huge amount of concrete to anchor them and the emissions required to produce that? And have you driven the roads in Kansas and Oklahoma where grooves are worn into the roads from the multitude of trucks? How about the required rebuilding of those roads.... That is not done without burning considerable amounts of fossil fuels...

The same voodoo math was used on ethanol decades ago... that has gotten much more efficient but it used to take more energy to produce it than it provided.

Never trust the math without it being fully explained. Math doesn't lie but people do.

None of those “inconvenient” real world things you’ve described are being counted. “Nothing to see here”. Not to mention the disposal of all the hazardous waste being produced by windmills and solar panels at the end of their useful lives. They are an addition to our energy security and not a replacement for oil and natural gas at THIS point in time. Small, technologically advanced nuclear power plants are the only viable solution to our long term energy needs and security and to make humans feel good about our fruitless efforts to halt climate change. Yet, even the group think radical climate activists are against nuclear energy. Go figure.

 

[Brent in Az]

Brilliant!

 

[BSO Dave]

However most of the issues they complaint about has nothing to do with presidents and all about supply and demand in a capitalist environment.

If you are inferring that a sitting President has no affect or control of the cost of goods and services, and specifically fuel prices, you could not be more wrong...

There are many components which you are ignoring that directly influence the supply and demand dynamic. Market speculation is perhaps the biggest component directly affected by Presidential policy with specific examples in Brandon's Administration being his war on fossil fuels... His closing of pipelines, the prohibition of new ones, non-renewals of federal leases, and restrictions of new leases just to name a few, have all had direct and profound effects on market confidence toward future production. These policies are huge red flags that sent speculation soaring and precisely why crude prices jumped 69% from November 2019 to February 1st, 2020... This was a direct market reaction to Brandon's litany of EO's ending our energy independence almost immediately. I assume you understand that the cost of fuel is incorporated into every aspect of the economy which translates into higher consumer prices?

Additionally, taxes, new regulation, and RECORD INFLATION are other major contributors to the cost of goods and services affecting supply and demand that are a direct result of terrible Presidential policy... Your chart does not account for the spikes which in this particular case, as it pertains to energy costs across the board, are a self-inflicted wound that didn't have to be... Pro-energy policies like we enjoyed under Trump would have had us well under your chart's historical averages...

 

[rookhawk]

If you are inferring that a sitting President has no affect or control of the cost of goods and services, and specifically fuel prices, you could not be more wrong...

Meeting in the middle between the two points, how about this? A sitting president has no power to naturally influence the supply/demand of the free market.

A sitting president does have the opportunity to collude with leaders to spike the price of fuel leading into an election, or interfere with refinery capacity, etc. In turn, a sitting president does have the unnatural power to flood an otherwise orderly free market with a glut of unforecasted supply. He could dump the strategic petroleum reserves 60 days from an election to first unnaturally drive up price and then unnaturally drive down price to give the illusion his leadership delivered free market results.

The president's power is only to F'up an efficient market, not to enhance one.

 

[Doubleplay]

If you are inferring that a sitting President has no affect or control of the cost of goods and services, and specifically fuel prices, you could not be more wrong...

There are many components which you are ignoring that directly influence the supply and demand dynamic. Market speculation is perhaps the biggest component directly affected by Presidential policy with specific examples in Brandon's Administration being his war on fossil fuels... His closing of pipelines, the prohibition of new ones, non-renewals of federal leases, and restrictions of new leases just to name a few, have all had direct and profound effects on market confidence toward future production. These policies are huge red flags that sent speculation soaring and precisely why crude prices jumped 69% from November 2019 to February 1st, 2020... This was a direct market reaction to Brandon's litany of EO's ending our energy independence almost immediately. I assume you understand that the cost of fuel is incorporated into every aspect of the economy which translates into higher consumer prices?

Additionally, taxes, new regulation, and RECORD INFLATION are other major contributors to the cost of goods and services affecting supply and demand that are a direct result of terrible Presidential policy... Your chart does not account for the spikes which in this particular case, as it pertains to energy costs across the board, are a self-inflicted wound that didn't have to be... Pro-energy policies like we enjoyed under Trump would have had us well under your chart's historical averages...

I'm not here to defend Biden ,Trump whoever... I don't give a rat.
However I hope you realize we have the highest production of oil in our history and prices are inflation adjusted lower than 1970's per the chart I posted.
Also Brandon did not closed any pipelines, he cancelled the Keystone's permit and did not allow it to be built.
Oil is a World commodity and on average acts on supply and demand.
Us having enough oil now does not mean that Exxon, Chevron etc.. will sell domestically for less.
We are lucky that we have the lowest prices of oil among developed countries because of low Federal and State taxes on it.
If I were president I would tax the oil hell a lot more and bring it par with other advanced countries and built our crumbling infrastructure and lower our national debt.
But no politician would do it.

 

[BSO Dave]

Meeting in the middle between the two points, how about this? A sitting president has no power to naturally influence the supply/demand of the free market.

A sitting president does have the opportunity to collude with leaders to spike the price of fuel leading into an election, or interfere with refinery capacity, etc. In turn, a sitting president does have the unnatural power to flood an otherwise orderly free market with a glut of unforecasted supply by dumping the strategic petroleum reserves 60 days from an election to first unnaturally drive up price and then unnaturally drive down price to give the appearance his leadership delivered free market results.

The president's power is only to F'up an efficient market, not to enhance one

I respectful appreciate your take on my post, but I wasn't stating an opinion... What I posted is fact...

Brandon's opening of the oil reserves was a desperate attempt to do something in the midst of one of the worst fuel spikes on record. (That he caused...!) It was a hollow gesture that had little to no effect on the immediate or long-term cost of gasoline at the pumps... What it did do was deplete our supply to dangerous levels in a time of global unrest for no other reason than to try and gain a few points in his plummeting poling numbers which are at record lows of any sitting POTUS because of 3+ years plus years of horrible policy...

 

[Altitude sickness]

Picking up on another angle of this, schools and medical professions love labels. It’s where insurance kicks in, its where staffing expansion is authorized, it’s where mediocre academic progress can be justified or faculty accountability deflected.

Labels are largely harmful, weakening the confidence of the labeled person, while generating excuses to fail.ADD and ADHD are horrible, terminal diagnosis for kids these days until they aren’t. 70%-90% of CEOs have ADD or ADHD. The mode of operating is a gift in certain lucrative positions and occupations, provided the kid can get past the gauntlet of label-assigners in their childhood.

I cannot imagine how a kid with ADD / ADHD would enjoy the current educational model, crawling out of their skin having to listen to poorly qualified teachers. About 25 years ago I had to pass a credential in my career that involved technical instruction. One of the test standards was judging a teacher’s ability to deliver content effectively in 15 minute pieces, since 80% of people disengage at the 15 minute mark.

That epiphany hit me in that moment: If you’re being sent to a class that might cost your company $5000-$12000 a week, the instructor is trained to captivate you and convey content in <15 minute vignettes. On the other hand if its a kid going to grade/high school, an instructor can ramble on for 1-2 hours even though retention for virtually everybody is about nil after 15 minutes.

CZ 450 Rigby Rimless

The "greedy, evil corporation" theme seems to be a common point of congruency between the alt-right Trumpies and the progressive lefties.

Tanks, as you know, we all unfortunately fall for the politicians game of pitting us against each other.

It’s not by accident that they keep us divided by class, race, gender identification Etc.

 

[Tanks]

...Pro-energy policies like we enjoyed under Trump would have had us well under your chart's historical averages...

Except, it didn't seem to have made any significant difference (1-2% better) during the 4 years of his Presidency.

 

[BSO Dave]

However I hope you realize we have the highest production of oil in our history and prices are inflation adjusted lower than 1970's per the chart I posted.
Also Brandon did not closed any pipelines, he cancelled the Keystone's permit and did not allow it to be built.
Oil is a World commodity and on average acts on supply and demand.
Us having enough oil now does not mean that Exxon, Chevron etc.. will sell domestically for less.
We are lucky that we have the lowest prices of oil among developed countries because of low Federal and State taxes on it.
If I were president I would tax the oil hell a lot more and bring it par with other advanced countries and built our crumbling infrastructure and lower our national debt.
But no politician would do it.

With all due respect, your posts suggest that you don't have the understanding of the energy market and how prices are set that you think you do...

The US is currently exporting more oil now than ever, but there is much more to that dynamic and how it affects pricing at the pump. We are producing and exporting heavy crude because we don't have the refineries to make gasoline from it. It' s much more expensive to refine light sweet crude than heavy... It's currently cheaper for US companies to import refined gasoline rather than to refine it because of the current bad policy...

Oil companies are not investing in the U.S. on exploration or refining capabilities precisely because of Brandon's war on fossil fuels domestically. If pipeline regulations were to be lifted, new leases opened and current productive leases renewed, that would re-establish confidence by the energy companies domestically to once again resume exploration, expansion, drilling and refining capability. ALL of which translates into energy independence, increased global supply, global competition and lower energy prices across the board...

Having lower fuel prices than any European country is nothing to be happy about... They pay considerably more because they are completely depended on foreign fuel. Our current dependence is elective which is sad...

 

[BSO Dave]

Except, it didn't seem to have made any significant difference (1-2% better) during the 4 years of his Presidency.

What are you saying here exactly? Gas Prices at the pumps was only 1-2% lower than we are paying under Brandon? Please tell me that's not what you are saying, because that is ridiculous...

 

[Tanks]

...

Oil companies are not investing in the U.S. on exploration or refining capabilities precisely because of Brandon's war on fossil fuels domestically. If pipeline regulations were to be lifted, new leases opened and current productive leases renewed, that would re-establish confidence by the energy companies domestically to once again resume exploration, expansion, drilling and refining capability. ALL of which translates into energy independence, increased global supply, global competition and lower energy prices across the board...

Having lower fuel prices than any European country is nothing to be happy about... They pay considerably more because they are completely depended on foreign fuel. Our current dependence is elective which is sad...

Building refineries also depends on State government permits. Blue States like CA will never allow more refineries regardless of who is President.

In regards to European countries, most of the cost is taxes. Here is a chart for UK.

Basically 52% is taxes, a lot less than what we pay in taxes.

 

[Tanks]

What are you saying here exactly? Gas Prices at the pumps was only 1-2% lower than we are paying under Brandon? Please tell me that's not what you are saying, because that is ridiculous...

Just looking at the inflation adjusted data nothing more, nothing less.