Politics

[mark-hunter]

I am told, but don't know if factual, that the main issue with international shipping has been the requirement to shift from the traditional fuel oil used for container shipping to a low sulphur fuel.

True.
main propulsion for big ship is heavy fuel oil. (it is like asphalt at normal temperature)
HFO needs to be heated up to become fluid. heating of fuel tanks is done by steam piping inside the storage tank. Storage tanks are usally kept at around 40 degrees Celsius.
Before shutting down the engines some had to be switched to diesel otherwise would not start again, on HFO

Then environment friendly frenzy started, and in some areas it was required to switch to low Sulphur fuel. It means diesel.
One of the first to implement this is California, when entering 12 miles limit, engines had to be switched to diesel (with proper entries to log books, etc).
FYI Roughly, Heavy fuel oil is 500 USD per ton, diesel is 1200 USD per ton.

Large container ship can burn 200 tons per day. (imagine the cost$$$), or if environmentally aware imagine pollution, biggest engines are 75..000 Hp up to 100.000 HP.

Cylinder diameter is 960 mm, two strokes, 7.500 HP per cylinder, then they put them in line, 10 cylinders or 12 cylinders.

Regardless of cost and daily consumption, it is fact that bigger the ship and engine is, cost of transport of one container unit drops with size of vessel. (transport is most expensive per unit on small vessels). So shipping industry builds bigger and bigger ships every year

Vessels of 400 meters are common today, and their size is not limited by shipbuilding industry limitations.
the size of vessel is limited only by: port facility to accommodate large vessels, draft and crane reach, plus world channels: suez and panama.
So, thats why they continuously dredge suez canal to make it deeper, and made new panama canal for so called post panamax size vessels. (containers, bulkers, tankers, etc)

 

[WAB]

Don't a lot of old ships burn something like a number 6 diesel fuel? I know some old boilers here in the US burn something similar. Some kind of black crap...

I was told by my Russian exchange students (some 20 years ago) that the diesel they burned in farm tractors over there was black. They were amazed how clean our diesel fuel looked.

Yes but 6 oil is not diesel, it’s much heavier. Diesel is 2 oil and kerosene is 1 oil.

 

[WAB]

The black crap, bunker fuel A,B or C is the shit left after the distillation of gasoline, diesel fuel and other lighter hydrocarbons.
It is true that it contains tons of sulphur and other contaminants, but if it wasn’t used for ship fuel what would it be used for asphalt? That already comes out of the distillation process. Maybe they could but it back in the well to mature into light crude. The fucking greenies have as much brains as a pet rock. The stuff is already out of the ground, use it the best as possible. The process to use this as fuel really only lends itself to huge motors suitable to big ships.

Resid is used for asphalt, fuel oil, or it can be converted into lighter hydrocarbons (gasoline, jet, diesel,etc.) in an RFCC, Coker or other thermal crackers. These are expensive processes and the intermediate produces requires a lot of hydrogen in the hydro treating process before it can be utilized. Refineries set up this way are heavy oil refineries, typically twice the cost of a refinery set up to handle lighter crudes.

 

[Wheels]

 

[Wheels]

True.
main propulsion for big ship is heavy fuel oil. (it is like asphalt at normal temperature)
HFO needs to be heated up to become fluid. heating of fuel tanks is done by steam piping inside the storage tank. Storage tanks are usally kept at around 40 degrees Celsius.
Before shutting down the engines some had to be switched to diesel otherwise would not start again, on HFO

Then environment friendly frenzy started, and in some areas it was required to switch to low Sulphur fuel. It means diesel.
One of the first to implement this is California, when entering 12 miles limit, engines had to be switched to diesel (with proper entries to log books, etc).
FYI Roughly, Heavy fuel oil is 500 USD per ton, diesel is 1200 USD per ton.

Large container ship can burn 200 tons per day. (imagine the cost$$$), or if environmentally aware imagine pollution, biggest engines are 75..000 Hp up to 100.000 HP.

Cylinder diameter is 960 mm, two strokes, 7.500 HP per cylinder, then they put them in line, 10 cylinders or 12 cylinders.

Regardless of cost and daily consumption, it is fact that bigger the ship and engine is, cost of transport of one container unit drops with size of vessel. (transport is most expensive per unit on small vessels). So shipping industry builds bigger and bigger ships every year

Vessels of 400 meters are common today, and their size is not limited by shipbuilding industry limitations.
the size of vessel is limited only by: port facility to accommodate large vessels, draft and crane reach, plus world channels: suez and panama.
So, thats why they continuously dredge suez canal to make it deeper, and made new panama canal for so called post panamax size vessels. (containers, bulkers, tankers, etc)

Yes but 6 oil is not diesel, it’s much heavier. Diesel is 2 oil and kerosene is 1 oil.

One of the neat things about AH is the massive knowledge base that spreads across most industries. I'm learning all kinds of things today.

All this time I thought oil was rendered from whales.

 

[Wheels]

 

[Bullthrower338]

 

[sgt_zim]

Yes but 6 oil is not diesel, it’s much heavier. Diesel is 2 oil and kerosene is 1 oil.

And in the typical hubristic ignorance of greens, switching all of our shipping over to Diesel will just make Diesel that much more expensive.

I knew Diesel was more expensive than 6, but I didn't realize it was about 150% more expensive. With more buyers chasing the same amount of Diesel available on the market today, it wouldn't surprise me if Diesel went to 200% or even higher, than #6.

Course, on the upside, that'll make their quinoa and other vegan rubbish even more expensive, which they'll of course blame on greedy businessmen rather than themselves and the assholes in government who enforce this insanity. If we're lucky, they'll all starve to death.

 

[Jeff505]

The black crap, bunker fuel A,B or C is the shit left after the distillation of gasoline, diesel fuel and other lighter hydrocarbons.
It is true that it contains tons of sulphur and other contaminants, but if it wasn’t used for ship fuel what would it be used for asphalt? That already comes out of the distillation process. Maybe they could but it back in the well to mature into light crude. The fucking greenies have as much brains as a pet rock. The stuff is already out of the ground, use it the best as possible. The process to use this as fuel really only lends itself to huge motors suitable to big ships.

Back in my Navy days 40 years ago almost all big ships were steam powered. The difference was how the steam was produced. Most of the carriers and subs were nukes. There were some gas turbine cruisers but the vast majority of the surface ships burned fuel oil (that black crap) to produce steam. I was on a destroyer and I remember it took 92 gallons of fuel to travel one nautical mile.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

Back in my Navy days 40 years ago almost all big ships were steam powered. The difference was how the steam was produced. Most of the carriers and subs were nukes. There were some gas turbine cruisers but the vast majority of the surface ships burned fuel oil (that black crap) to produce steam. I was on a destroyer and I remember it took 92 gallons of fuel to travel one nautical mile.

In relation to the size of a destroyer that sounds like pretty fair mileage to me.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Back in my Navy days 40 years ago almost all big ships were steam powered. The difference was how the steam was produced. Most of the carriers and subs were nukes. There were some gas turbine cruisers but the vast majority of the surface ships burned fuel oil (that black crap) to produce steam. I was on a destroyer and I remember it took 92 gallons of fuel to travel one nautical mile.

You forgot to end this post with YMMV.

 

[Newboomer]

Back in my Navy days 40 years ago almost all big ships were steam powered. The difference was how the steam was produced. Most of the carriers and subs were nukes. There were some gas turbine cruisers but the vast majority of the surface ships burned fuel oil (that black crap) to produce steam. I was on a destroyer and I remember it took 92 gallons of fuel to travel one nautical mile.

Good old Bunker C. Miserable shit. I worked in a plant where we installed and repaired tank trucks. Some of them hauled Bunker C. Aluminum tanks with surge heads and the damn heads were always cracking at the welds. We had to steam them for two days before we could get into them to reweld. Even then there would be traces of BC in the cracks and when I tried to weld it would blow a hole in the head. Many times I chased a crack all the way around a head before it would finally weld shut.

 

[mark-hunter]

All this time I thought oil was rendered from whales

In the good old times, the best gun oil was made of whale fat. They dont kill whales anymore, so they had to find other sources...

 

[sgt_zim]

I believe we may have just reached peak stupid.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587818985894051841

 

[cpr0312]

 

[cpr0312]

 

[cpr0312]

 

[Hunter4752001]

Please don't say

I believe we may have just reached peak stupid.

Some of these &*^%s regard it as a challenge.

 

[Randy F]

 

[OldnLazy]

View attachment 498100

I watched the whole thing Fetterman will do very well as a comedian.