Politics

War is a racket, if given the chance one should read Smedly Butler’s book. Nothing has changed except the names of a few countries.
yup, think he said something along the lines of unless it is 500 miles form us not our problem
 
“The only thing we should go to war over is defending our homes or the bill of rights” or words to that effect. He was right in 1935 and his words are still right today.
 
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Met to discuss response to Crimea bridge attack ....... :ROFLMAO:
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“The only thing we should go to war over is defending our homes or the bill of rights” or words to that effect. He was right in 1935 and his words are still right today.

It gets a little more complicated than 500 miles if the intent is to defend your home..

asymmetric warfare is a completely different animal today than it was in the 1930's.. Warfare isn't just fought by traditional combatants on the dirt between two forces..

Cyber is one of, if not the single greatest threat to the American "home".. and is routinely being funded and executed by state sponsored agencies (the usual suspects are among the biggest.. Russia, North Korea, China, Pakistan, etc).. Sometimes the best solution for an "online" threat is a drone and a hellfire more than 5000 miles from our borders.. Sometimes the best solution is using political muscle to force a host country to allow Interpol to raid the offices of the very people that same country has been paying to engage in cyber attacks against the US Govt and US corporations..

A good buddy of mine is a VP of Cyber at JP Morgan Chase.. if you had any idea how often our largest private businesses and organizations come under attack by groups directly funded by foreign governments.. and how deeply involved private sector cyber officials are in engaging in the defense of the cyber war that has been waged.. it would truly blow you away...

Terrorism is very often state sponsored and funded.. There is a well developed concept that if you don't want them fighting their war on your soil, you better keep them occupied on theirs... Thereby you end up in places like Syria, Afghanistan, etc... (don't read this wrong.. Im not saying we actually executed any of our recent wars correctly or incorrectly.. or agreeing or disagreeing with any of the other premises associated.. Im simply saying if all of the jihadis are running to Syria to fight with you, there are far less of them trying to figure out how to commandeer planes and fly them into buildings in your home town.. )...

I do believe that the US has allowed itself to become engaged in conflicts that it likely shouldn't have involved itself in several times over the course of our history.. but I also believe that strict isolationism when it comes to military power and the willingness to use it is a very bad move for a country that wishes to remain a global power and reap the benefits of being one...
 
It gets a little more complicated than 500 miles if the intent is to defend your home..

asymmetric warfare is a completely different animal today than it was in the 1930's.. Warfare isn't just fought by traditional combatants on the dirt between two forces..

Cyber is one of, if not the single greatest threat to the American "home".. and is routinely being funded and executed by state sponsored agencies (the usual suspects are among the biggest.. Russia, North Korea, China, Pakistan, etc).. Sometimes the best solution for an "online" threat is a drone and a hellfire more than 5000 miles from our borders.. Sometimes the best solution is using political muscle to force a host country to allow Interpol to raid the offices of the very people that same country has been paying to engage in cyber attacks against the US Govt and US corporations..

A good buddy of mine is a VP of Cyber at JP Morgan Chase.. if you had any idea how often our largest private businesses and organizations come under attack by groups directly funded by foreign governments.. and how deeply involved private sector cyber officials are in engaging in the defense of the cyber war that has been waged.. it would truly blow you away...

Terrorism is very often state sponsored and funded.. There is a well developed concept that if you don't want them fighting their war on your soil, you better keep them occupied on theirs... Thereby you end up in places like Syria, Afghanistan, etc... (don't read this wrong.. Im not saying we actually executed any of our recent wars correctly or incorrectly.. or agreeing or disagreeing with any of the other premises associated.. Im simply saying if all of the jihadis are running to Syria to fight with you, there are far less of them trying to figure out how to commandeer planes and fly them into buildings in your home town.. )...

I do believe that the US has allowed itself to become engaged in conflicts that it likely shouldn't have involved itself in several times over the course of our history.. but I also believe that strict isolationism when it comes to military power and the willingness to use it is a very bad move for a country that wishes to remain a global power and reap the benefits of being one...
+1
And I would add, the moral responsibility to help the innocent against aggressors when in our power to do so. I cannot stand idly by and watch them be slaughtered, tho we often do so. Armenia in 1915 comes to mind...
 
I have read more than once that the real James Bond type activity is in corporate espionage.
 
The point of General Butlers “War is a Racket” is that while young Americans get sent off to fight wars for corporations, the politicians and the corporations, and those invested in those companies, make billions of dollars off dead Americans. War is a money making endeavor and it’s a known fact. There are, at the moment, the talking head retired officers, begging for the U.S. to get further involved in the Ukrainian Russian war. There is nothing in either of those S$&t holes worth even one American life.
 
It gets a little more complicated than 500 miles if the intent is to defend your home..

asymmetric warfare is a completely different animal today than it was in the 1930's.. Warfare isn't just fought by traditional combatants on the dirt between two forces..

Cyber is one of, if not the single greatest threat to the American "home".. and is routinely being funded and executed by state sponsored agencies (the usual suspects are among the biggest.. Russia, North Korea, China, Pakistan, etc).. Sometimes the best solution for an "online" threat is a drone and a hellfire more than 5000 miles from our borders.. Sometimes the best solution is using political muscle to force a host country to allow Interpol to raid the offices of the very people that same country has been paying to engage in cyber attacks against the US Govt and US corporations..

A good buddy of mine is a VP of Cyber at JP Morgan Chase.. if you had any idea how often our largest private businesses and organizations come under attack by groups directly funded by foreign governments.. and how deeply involved private sector cyber officials are in engaging in the defense of the cyber war that has been waged.. it would truly blow you away...

Terrorism is very often state sponsored and funded.. There is a well developed concept that if you don't want them fighting their war on your soil, you better keep them occupied on theirs... Thereby you end up in places like Syria, Afghanistan, etc... (don't read this wrong.. Im not saying we actually executed any of our recent wars correctly or incorrectly.. or agreeing or disagreeing with any of the other premises associated.. Im simply saying if all of the jihadis are running to Syria to fight with you, there are far less of them trying to figure out how to commandeer planes and fly them into buildings in your home town.. )...

I do believe that the US has allowed itself to become engaged in conflicts that it likely shouldn't have involved itself in several times over the course of our history.. but I also believe that strict isolationism when it comes to military power and the willingness to use it is a very bad move for a country that wishes to remain a global power and reap the benefits of being one...
I agree with that we need to fighter cyber warfare, etc. The war on terror got us TSA (40,000 strong welfare program) and 20 years later they are STILL searching grandma and they are proven to be 65% ineffective. 20 years in Iraq and we spent trillions and they are still corrupt and voila! We get no oil from them? Huh? Why don't you hear about them and oil today? (You'll cringe when you find out). The taliban again runs Afghan and they have 80B we left them. My dad fought in Korea. How'd that work out? A terrible and horrible trade deal that is sickening. We still defend them when they are a rich country. For what? Vietnam was about $$ and guess what they are a tourist destination now. 58,000 dead, many wounded and scarred, billions pissed away. How many wars has Germany fought lately? How many has China fought? I'm trying to find out how the middle class person benefits? These wars are about $$ that simple. Russia will go right back to sending LNG and oil to the euros. We will get nothing from Ukraine but likely hostility. Pols will get rich and the MI complex/contractors will soak the taxpayer for more weapons. The real enemy is at home but let them keep you distracted with bullshit proxy wars.
 
The point of General Butlers “War is a Racket” is that while young Americans get sent off to fight wars for corporations, the politicians and the corporations, and those invested in those companies, make billions of dollars off dead Americans. War is a money making endeavor and it’s a known fact. There are, at the moment, the talking head retired officers, begging for the U.S. to get further involved in the Ukrainian Russian war. There is nothing in either of those S$&t holes worth even one American life.
Correct and the "retired" Generals, etc ARE politicians and they all go to work for defense contractors so they can kill poor kids and get a fkn beach house. Sick business in all ways.


"The Pentagon has spent an enormous amount of money—an estimated $14 trillion—in the 20 years since the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 following the 9/11 terror attacks, according to a paper by William D. Hartung, director of the Arms and Security Program at the Center for International Policy. As much as half of that amount went to private defense contractors, with the five biggest companies scoring as much as one-third of these private contracts.

As these five companies—Boeing, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and Raytheon—earned up to $2.3 trillion in Pentagon contracts during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, they collectively spent a considerable amount, over $1.2 billion, on federal lobbying and campaign contributions, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics and analyzed by the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD).

Meanwhile, these companies’ stocks combined to increase in value almost ten-fold over the past 20 years, and numerous members of Congress have personally benefited. According to an analysis by Sludge, a bipartisan group of at least 11 senators and 36 representatives own as much as $6.7 million worth of defense industry stocks, including all five of the defense giants."
 
I agree with that we need to fighter cyber warfare, etc. The war on terror got us TSA (40,000 strong welfare program) and 20 years later they are STILL searching grandma and they are proven to be 65% ineffective. 20 years in Iraq and we spent trillions and they are still corrupt and voila! We get no oil from them? Huh? Why don't you hear about them and oil today? (You'll cringe when you find out). The taliban again runs Afghan and they have 80B we left them. My dad fought in Korea. How'd that work out? A terrible and horrible trade deal that is sickening. We still defend them when they are a rich country. For what? Vietnam was about $$ and guess what they are a tourist destination now. 58,000 dead, many wounded and scarred, billions pissed away. How many wars has Germany fought lately? How many has China fought? I'm trying to find out how the middle class person benefits? These wars are about $$ that simple. Russia will go right back to sending LNG and oil to the euros. We will get nothing from Ukraine but likely hostility. Pols will get rich and the MI complex/contractors will soak the taxpayer for more weapons. The real enemy is at home but let them keep you distracted with bullshit proxy wars.
You DO have some very valid points.
 
I would like to see specific facts to support all the allegations of misappropriation of funds. All of these innuendos and misinterpretations are frankly boring and a waste of time.

And the suggestion that US corporations would participate in espionage is really quite entertaining. You really should review the FCPA statutes before making these assertions. I clearly remember my FCPA and insider trader training when I became an officer of a fortune 50 company. It is basically a short story; ‘the 100 ways you can spend the rest of your life in prison’.

Are there rogues? Sure. But I think you guys are making up a fairy tale world.
 
You mean like Nancy? Yea, the laws certainly cover every one……. A question that always comes to mind is how can the people that regulate the doings of certain companies be allowed to invest in those companies however the “insider trading “ laws don’t apply to them and if it does, it doesn’t apply to family members that trade? Are we really that naive as to believe that the law applies equally to everyone? Or is it some are just more equal than others?
 
I'm not sure what to do about it but people at least need to learn how it works, lol.
Unfortunately, our "military industrial complex" (remember Eisenhower's quote, "Beware the industrial military complex") has been intertwined in our economy since the end of WW2. Sometimes a good thing as it provides for tens of thousands of good paying jobs and tax income. Sometimes a REAL BAD thing, as many soldiers (usually those with little means) have died because of it. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (I believe the initial Afghanistan campaign was justified and successful until we pivoted towards Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"), etc. In my view, the problem is that ever since WW2, we DON'T WIN the conflicts we engage in anymore? We compromise and lose. MacArthur urged Truman to authorize the use of tactical nuclear weapons against North Korea in the UN "police action" (not a war, what a joke!) when Mao sent six Chinese divisions across the Yalu River in support of North Korea in direct violation of the UN charter. Would it have been justified? Don't know, but look at the "Hermit Kingdom" now under KIm Jong-un. They're now nuclear and firing ballistic missiles at will and threatening every nation in the region and beyond, including the US. Then we had Vietnam. North Vietnam invaded the South and we got involved via the Gulf of Tonkin resolution to come to the South's defense. Great. But then we have President Johnson who ran the war from the Oval Office. "My fly boys' can't bomb an outhouse without my permission!" At that early point we already had lost the war and some 58K soldiers subsequently died because of that mindset. Then Iraq's possession of "weapons of mass destruction". Shady intelligence led to a prolonged war in which many US and other countries soldiers were killed. We should have left the brutal dictator Saddam in power to control Iran, Hezbollah and the radical Islamics now running Iraq. WE, as a country, have made MANY poor decisions in the defense (real or imagined) of countries without taking stock as to the ultimate cost to the US in terms of money and more importantly the sacrifices made by our brave men and now women in uniform. Rant over.
 
I would like to see specific facts to support all the allegations of misappropriation of funds. All of these innuendos and misinterpretations are frankly boring and a waste of time.

And the suggestion that US corporations would participate in espionage is really quite entertaining. You really should review the FCPA statutes before making these assertions. I clearly remember my FCPA and insider trader training when I became an officer of a fortune 50 company. It is basically a short story; ‘the 100 ways you can spend the rest of your life in prison’.

Are there rogues? Sure. But I think you guys are making up a fairy tale world.
Lot of proof but I'm not going to list it all. The clinton foundation is a good start though if you want to look at that. I don't know anything about corporate espionage but it would shock me if there wasn't some type of coordination at times.
 
You mean like Nancy? Yea, the laws certainly cover every one……. A question that always comes to mind is how can the people that regulate the doings of certain companies be allowed to invest in those companies however the “insider trading “ laws don’t apply to them and if it does, it doesn’t apply to family members that trade? Are we really that naive as to believe that the law applies equally to everyone? Or is it some are just more equal than others?
Yeah, it's a joke and they won't stop doing it. sad
 
Unfortunately, our "military industrial complex" (remember Eisenhower's quote, "Beware the industrial military complex") has been intertwined in our economy since the end of WW2. Sometimes a good thing as it provides for tens of thousands of good paying jobs and tax income. Sometimes a REAL BAD thing, as many soldiers (usually those with little means) have died because of it. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (I believe the initial Afghanistan campaign was justified and successful until we pivoted towards Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"), etc. In my view, the problem is that ever since WW2, we DON'T WIN the conflicts we engage in anymore? We compromise and lose. MacArthur urged Truman to authorize the use of tactical nuclear weapons against North Korea in the UN "police action" (not a war, what a joke!) when Mao sent six Chinese divisions across the Yalu River in support of North Korea in direct violation of the UN charter. Would it have been justified? Don't know, but look at the "Hermit Kingdom" now under KIm Jong-un. They're now nuclear and firing ballistic missiles at will and threatening every nation in the region and beyond, including the US. Then we had Vietnam. North Vietnam invaded the South and we got involved via the Gulf of Tonkin resolution to come to the South's defense. Great. But then we have President Johnson who ran the war from the Oval Office. "My fly boys' can't bomb an outhouse without my permission!" At that early point we already had lost the war and some 58K soldiers subsequently died because of that mindset. Then Iraq's possession of "weapons of mass destruction". Shady intelligence led to a prolonged war in which many US and other countries soldiers were killed. We should have left the brutal dictator Saddam in power to control Iran, Hezbollah and the radical Islamics now running Iraq. WE, as a country, have made MANY poor decisions in the defense (real or imagined) of countries without taking stock as to the ultimate cost to the US in terms of money and more importantly the sacrifices made by our brave men and now women in uniform. Rant over.
Yup, that's the deal. I'm all for a strong military but not stupid wars for profit. The reason we don't win (technically we won every one in my view and the USA has never lost a war, that is fact) is that there wasn't anything to win that really mattered. They are for money and some minor political interests. It's great that S. Korea survived and did well but look what it got us? The soldiers who died there did it for their freedom but that doesn't really appease their families I would bet. No country is perfect and the USA is light years the greatest force for good the world has ever known and much better than having china or russia try to run things.
 
Unfortunately, our "military industrial complex" (remember Eisenhower's quote, "Beware the industrial military complex") has been intertwined in our economy since the end of WW2. Sometimes a good thing as it provides for tens of thousands of good paying jobs and tax income. Sometimes a REAL BAD thing, as many soldiers (usually those with little means) have died because of it. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (I believe the initial Afghanistan campaign was justified and successful until we pivoted towards Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"), etc. In my view, the problem is that ever since WW2, we DON'T WIN the conflicts we engage in anymore? We compromise and lose. MacArthur urged Truman to authorize the use of tactical nuclear weapons against North Korea in the UN "police action" (not a war, what a joke!) when Mao sent six Chinese divisions across the Yalu River in support of North Korea in direct violation of the UN charter. Would it have been justified? Don't know, but look at the "Hermit Kingdom" now under KIm Jong-un. They're now nuclear and firing ballistic missiles at will and threatening every nation in the region and beyond, including the US. Then we had Vietnam. North Vietnam invaded the South and we got involved via the Gulf of Tonkin resolution to come to the South's defense. Great. But then we have President Johnson who ran the war from the Oval Office. "My fly boys' can't bomb an outhouse without my permission!" At that early point we already had lost the war and some 58K soldiers subsequently died because of that mindset. Then Iraq's possession of "weapons of mass destruction". Shady intelligence led to a prolonged war in which many US and other countries soldiers were killed. We should have left the brutal dictator Saddam in power to control Iran, Hezbollah and the radical Islamics now running Iraq. WE, as a country, have made MANY poor decisions in the defense (real or imagined) of countries without taking stock as to the ultimate cost to the US in terms of money and more importantly the sacrifices made by our brave men and now women in uniform. Rant over.
As an addendum to this and "hindsight is 50/50", Patton was correct "militarily" when he said after the Nazis surrendered to the Allied powers in WW2, "Give me 100,000 gallons of gasoline for my tanks and I'll go all the way to Moscow, because we'll be fighting the communist Russians sooner or later anyway". How prophetic. Look where we are now. We DON'T WIN wars since WW2, because our politicians are running them and getting a BUNCH of soldiers killed.
 
As an addendum to this and "hindsight is 50/50", Patton was correct "militarily" when he said after the Nazis surrendered to the Allied powers in WW2, "Give me 100,000 gallons of gasoline for my tanks and I'll go all the way to Moscow, because we'll be fighting the communist Russians sooner or later anyway". How prophetic. Look where we are now. We DON'T WIN wars since WW2, because our politicians are running them and getting a BUNCH of soldiers killed.
none are vital to our survival, that's why
 

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