Politics

[CoElkHunter]

Yup, that's the deal. I'm all for a strong military but not stupid wars for profit. The reason we don't win (technically we won every one in my view and the USA has never lost a war, that is fact) is that there wasn't anything to win that really mattered. They are for money and some minor political interests. It's great that S. Korea survived and did well but look what it got us? The soldiers who died there did it for their freedom but that doesn't really appease their families I would bet. No country is perfect and the USA is light years the greatest force for good the world has ever known and much better than having china or russia try to run things.

I disagree. The Korean war ended as a stalemate due to politics and an illegal Chinese intervention with some 40K Americans dead and over 100K wounded in THREE years! Sure, the North Koreans didn't invade the US, but look at now nuclear North Korea threatening every country in their hemisphere AND the US! How can you say we didn't lose? We kept the Korean Communists North, but LOST the initiative to quash it's nuclear aspirations at their onset and the WORLD is now paying the price. Vietnam was a TOTAL clusterfuck! Ho Chi Minh never said he wanted to expand Communism beyond Vietnam. He wanted only to "reunite" North and South Vietnam under his version of Communism. The prevailing thought at the time amongst politicians and military leaders in the US was the "domino effect", whereby once South Vietnam fell, Noth Vietnam would continue to pursue their Communist agendas (or invasion) into the Philippines and points beyond. We won Vietnam militarily (after some of our 58K soldiers dead) but not politically. Now, they are a "quasi" Capitalist embracing society with amazingly, no nuclear weapons.

none are vital to our survival, that's why

I think the fact that Putin has a large stockpile of nuclear weapons and has now threatened to use them IS vital to our survival? If we had dealt with the situation at the end of WW2, we wouldn't be facing the prospects of armageddon now?

 

[Nature Boy]

I disagree. The Korean war ended as a stalemate due to politics and an illegal Chinese intervention with some 40K Americans dead and over 100K wounded in THREE years! Sure, the North Koreans didn't invade the US, but look at now nuclear North Korea threatening every country in their hemisphere AND the US! How can you say we didn't lose? We kept the Korean Communists North, but LOST the initiative to quash it's nuclear aspirations at their onset and the WORLD is now paying the price. Vietnam was a TOTAL clusterfuck! Ho Chi Minh never said he wanted to expand Communism beyond Vietnam. He wanted only to "reunite" North and South Vietnam under his version of Communism. The prevailing thought at the time amongst politicians and military leaders in the US was the "domino effect", whereby once South Vietnam fell, Noth Vietnam would continue to pursue their Communist agendas (or invasion) into the Philippines and points beyond. We won Vietnam militarily (after some of our 58K soldiers dead) but not politically. Now, they are a "quasi" Capitalist embracing society.

I think the fact that Putin has a large stockpile of nuclear weapons and has now threatened to use them IS vital to our survival? If we had dealt with the situation at the end of WW2, we wouldn't be facing the prospects of armageddon now?

We didn't want a war with China and S. Korea prospered so to me that's a win. I'm not that worried about NK and their nukes. West had their chance but showed no balls. Vietnam was about oil, a bullshit war in all ways.

Putin wouldn't be threatening us had we stayed put of it. Guess who is giving every weapon we have to the Ukrainians and who put us at risk? All for money and the MI complex. Gabbard was on Joe Rogan today and said as much. Doesn't anybody think it's odd that this is the ONE THING both parties agree on and vote for without any disagreement. It's about $$$ period. Ukraine means jack shit to the USA for the most part. I feel sorry for the innocent civilians that said. I would never send a loved one to fight for them though and neither would any of the hawks on here. They are disconnected and don't want their guts blown out for Ukraine. They want some poor kid's guts blown out while they sip bourbon. It's our own pols who have us at nuclear risk.

 

[CoElkHunter]

We didn't want a war with China and S. Korea prospered so to me that's a win. I'm not that worried about NK and their nukes. West had their chance but showed no balls. Vietnam was about oil, a bullshit war in all ways.

Putin wouldn't be threatening us had we stayed put of it. Guess who is giving every weapon we have to the Ukrainians and who put us at risk? All for money and the MI complex. Gabbard was on Joe Rogan today and said as much. Doesn't anybody think it's odd that this is the ONE THING both parties agree on and vote for without any disagreement. It's about $$$ period. Ukraine means jack shit to the USA for the most part. I feel sorry for the innocent civilians that said. I would never send a loved one to fight for them though and neither would any of the hawks on here. They are disconnected and don't want their guts blown out for Ukraine. They want some poor kid's guts blown out while they sip bourbon. It's our own pols who have us at nuclear risk.

Well, the good decisions in the past that would/could have changed the geopolitical climate of today, weren't made and now the world has been and will continue to suffer for it, if we survive at all as the human race.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

On your second issue, I agree with you. The major complaint I have about Trump was his seeming inability to appoint good subordinates. This could be because he was not a politician and did not have a machine in place or he was taking bad advice. Either way, a second term probably would have corrected this. As for some people's complaint that Trump didn't "act presidential", how presidential does Biden act? The return to normalcy hasn't worked out too well, unless its the "new normal".

I don't see a connection. One does not correlate to the other. Neither acts presidential, yes, that's true. But I voted for Trump: I expected, or at least hoped for, better. I didn't vote for Biden. I had no expectations for him, except to maybe serve out his term (so Harris doesn't get a chance), and then to get the hell out when that term is over.

 

[Zambezi]

Just a little calculation for those that think NATO/USA should stay out of Ukraine and leave Putin to run riot... Since the start of the war fuel has increased, let's say by $1/L. Now multiply that by the 100 million vehicles on the US roads at an average of 5 litres used a day. That is $500 MILLION dollars a day!

So saying that what happens on the other side of the world is of no consequence shows a staggering lack of understanding! That's just fuel. Let's add the rising cost of LNG for heating etc, the rise in food prices et al ... that's just the surface, we haven't even taken the fall in the stock values etc into account. This little war is costing the USA in the region of a BILLION dollars a day.

Still think it's not your fight? Putin/Russia is hitting your pocket whether you like it or not. So you can sit back and squeal as much as you want but it will only get worse if you ignore it. First Ukraine, then the old Eastern European counties, then further and further. If he is not stopped at this first attempt he will be emboldened and you will have a Russia with expanded influence and more money to play with. Then your problems will get real.

As for all this bleating about the MI complex making obscene money... it is money that is being spent in the USA, it is supplying thousands of jobs and employing materials mined and manufactured in the USA. It is stimulating YOUR economy. Do the big wigs make obscene profits? Hell yes! Are kids sent off to die? well no not in this proxy war. But you still bitch about it being a proxy war. As I said if you don't yet realise that you actually ARE being attacked then I just don't know what to say!

We live in a global village and if you think isolationism is still a viable policy you're so stuck in the past that.... well let me just leave it there.

 

[Randy F]

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Vietnam was about oil.

What? You made that up, right.

 

[cpr0312]

 

[Nature Boy]

Just a little calculation for those that think NATO/USA should stay out of Ukraine and leave Putin to run riot... Since the start of the war fuel has increased, let's say by $1/L. Now multiply that by the 100 million vehicles on the US roads at an average of 5 litres used a day. That is $500 MILLION dollars a day!

So saying that what happens on the other side of the world is of no consequence shows a staggering lack of understanding! That's just fuel. Let's add the rising cost of LNG for heating etc, the rise in food prices et al ... that's just the surface, we haven't even taken the fall in the stock values etc into account. This little war is costing the USA in the region of a BILLION dollars a day.

Still think it's not your fight? Putin/Russia is hitting your pocket whether you like it or not. So you can sit back and squeal as much as you want but it will only get worse if you ignore it. First Ukraine, then the old Eastern European counties, then further and further. If he is not stopped at this first attempt he will be emboldened and you will have a Russia with expanded influence and more money to play with. Then your problems will get real.

As for all this bleating about the MI complex making obscene money... it is money that is being spent in the USA, it is supplying thousands of jobs and employing materials mined and manufactured in the USA. It is stimulating YOUR economy. Do the big wigs make obscene profits? Hell yes! Are kids sent off to die? well no not in this proxy war. But you still bitch about it being a proxy war. As I said if you don't yet realise that you actually ARE being attacked then I just don't know what to say!

We live in a global village and if you think isolationism is still a viable policy you're so stuck in the past that.... well let me just leave it there.

The so-called president of the USA (I don't recognize him or his handlers as he's a senile shit stain) is shutting down our energy and that is the issue. Has nothing to do with Russia. We have 200 years worth of oil. We have a metric shit ton of LNG and sell it. We don't need it.

No it won't, putin can't touch NATO countries else he euros might actually lift a finger for once. We are not losing a billion a day, we are selling oil to europe and we don't need any food from Ukraine.

Bigger point that nobody gets is we are at the brink of nuclear war due to being stupid. Putin may or may not be crazy. Ukraine can never win this in the long run. Our pos thing along with the euros should be negotiaiting a settlement, not sending more weapons. But if the risk is so great the euros can do the fighting vs the USA for the millionth time. Or you can send your kid to protect oligarchs and corrupt Ukrriane who was not let into Nato for that reason and they shouldn't be as they are a drag and it will instigate Putin.

 

[Nature Boy]

What? You made that up, right.

nah, but believe what you want

 

[Nature Boy]

View attachment 494074

I want that!

 

[Nature Boy]

Most of the investment in South Vietnam involved bonus payments for offshore acreage to the Government. In the early nineteen‐seventies some peace groups charged that the war was being fought by the United States because of the oil wealth off the shores of Vietnam.Apr 27, 1975

What? You made that up, right.

 

[Nature Boy]

nah, but believe what you want

Gulf of Tonkin is a US gov't admitted lie, FYI

 

[Zambezi]

The so-called president of the USA (I don't recognize him or his handlers as he's a senile shit stain) is shutting down our energy and that is the issue. Has nothing to do with Russia. We have 200 years worth of oil. We have a metric shit ton of LNG and sell it. We don't need it.

No it won't, putin can't touch NATO countries else he euros might actually lift a finger for once. We are not losing a billion a day, we are selling oil to europe and we don't need any food from Ukraine.

Bigger point that nobody gets is we are at the brink of nuclear war due to being stupid. Putin may or may not be crazy. Ukraine can never win this in the long run. Our pos thing along with the euros should be negotiaiting a settlement, not sending more weapons. But if the risk is so great the euros can do the fighting vs the USA for the millionth time. Or you can send your kid to protect oligarchs and corrupt Ukrriane who was not let into Nato for that reason and they shouldn't be as they are a drag and it will instigate Putin.

You still don't get it. In every post you conflate Biden with the Ukraine issue. Yes they may have interwoven aspects but they are separate issues. You won't agree. If you want to discuss Biden and his idiocy cool. If you want to discuss the war and should you isolate cool. But they are not the same thing.

In your second paragraph you are either being obtuse or simply don't understand what you're talking about. I'll type this slowly so you can follow: whether you're selling oil or LNG is irrelevant your petrol prices have still increased by at least a dollar DUE TO THE WAR. The other many dollars/gallon increase is due to Biden. The war has raised your LNG prices that is hurting your pocket. The only pocket it is not hurting is the LNG shareholders. Stock prices suffered ergo value of companies and workers have suffered. It makes sod all difference if you are selling LNG and don't need the grain.

Secondly maybe you should acquaint yourself with the other things the come out of Ukraine that you DO need. It is not just grain. That is the strategic angle that you are fighting this proxy war for.

Your last paragraph: If you think we are on the brink now what will it be like in 10-15 years when Putin has expanded and subjugated half of eastern Europe? Think of the 1960-1989 period. That's where you'll be except with a strong, more imperial Russia. As for your bullshit about the US doing all the fighting and everyone sits and does nothing. You actually sound racist and full of it.
Vietnam = Originally French soldiers then French/US
Desert Shield = US/UK/Australia/France/Germany/and many others
Desert Storm = See above
Ukraine = NO US TROOPS

If you really think appeasing a bully like Putin will end with Ukraine then I have a bridge to sell you. Negotiate, what a laugh! As for sending my kid to fight for Ukraine, nobody is sending their kids except the Ukrainian parents. Nobody is saying that Ukraine has to join NATO. But allowing it to become part of Russia is a colossal mistake purely on the grounds of their resources. Why do you think Putin wants it?????

 

[jeanes]

I don't see a connection. One does not correlate to the other. Neither acts presidential, yes, that's true. But I voted for Trump: I expected, or at least hoped for, better. I didn't vote for Biden. I had no expectations for him, except to maybe serve out his term (so Harris doesn't get a chance), and then to get the hell out when that term is over.

Not sure what connection or correlation you are talking about. If its not appointing good subordinates, I'm afraid he didn't, at least at first. If its about the acting presidential, there was a choice, Trump or Biden. Glad you made the correct choice. Sorry it didn't work out. The country is much the worse for the outcome.

 

[Nature Boy]

You still don't get it. In every post you conflate Biden with the Ukraine issue. Yes they may have interwoven aspects but they are separate issues. You won't agree. If you want to discuss Biden and his idiocy cool. If you want to discuss the war and should you isolate cool. But they are not the same thing.

In your second paragraph you are either being obtuse or simply don't understand what you're talking about. I'll type this slowly so you can follow: whether you're selling oil or LNG is irrelevant your petrol prices have still increased by at least a dollar DUE TO THE WAR. The other many dollars/gallon increase is due to Biden. The war has raised your LNG prices that is hurting your pocket. The only pocket it is not hurting is the LNG shareholders. Stock prices suffered ergo value of companies and workers have suffered. It makes sod all difference if you are selling LNG and don't need the grain.

Secondly maybe you should acquaint yourself with the other things the come out of Ukraine that you DO need. It is not just grain. That is the strategic angle that you are fighting this proxy war for.

Your last paragraph: If you think we are on the brink now what will it be like in 10-15 years when Putin has expanded and subjugated half of eastern Europe? Think of the 1960-1989 period. That's where you'll be except with a strong, more imperial Russia. As for your bullshit about the US doing all the fighting and everyone sits and does nothing. You actually sound racist and full of it.
Vietnam = Originally French soldiers then French/US
Desert Shield = US/UK/Australia/France/Germany/and many others
Desert Storm = See above
Ukraine = NO US TROOPS

If you really think appeasing a bully like Putin will end with Ukraine then I have a bridge to sell you. Negotiate, what a laugh! As for sending my kid to fight for Ukraine, nobody is sending their kids except the Ukrainian parents. Nobody is saying that Ukraine has to join NATO. But allowing it to become part of Russia is a colossal mistake purely on the grounds of their resources. Why do you think Putin wants it?????

I'm an American, I know more about it than you. The left in the USA has been after Putin for whatever reason for a long time and he's no threat. Their economy is smaller than Cali's. This was their opening and they took it. Regime change is their goal. The USA did a coup in corrupt Ukraine in 2014 and they started poking the bear for no reason other than grifting money. Now, we are staring down a nuclear war and laugh all you want. They just ran tv ads in New York telling people what to do. How stupid could anybody be. Give them dongrass and keep them out of Nato. who cares.

I'll type it SLOW for you. That is BULLSHIT. We can produce a lot more at home but this commie admin is stopping it. Sending their EPA goons to the permean basin to geton them about LNG, which is clean. The USA produces among the cleanest oil in the world too.

About 11% of US natural gas production is now exported as LNG.Sep 19, 2022

We don;t need anything from Ukraine einstein. The only wheat we are buying now is for other poor countries as we have to feed the world unlike anybody else. The main thing we get are ferrous metals.

Lol, are you serious? see: NATO, our big bad allies and the "treaty" lmao

So you want nuclear war, sweet.

 

[Nature Boy]

You still don't get it. In every post you conflate Biden with the Ukraine issue. Yes they may have interwoven aspects but they are separate issues. You won't agree. If you want to discuss Biden and his idiocy cool. If you want to discuss the war and should you isolate cool. But they are not the same thing.

In your second paragraph you are either being obtuse or simply don't understand what you're talking about. I'll type this slowly so you can follow: whether you're selling oil or LNG is irrelevant your petrol prices have still increased by at least a dollar DUE TO THE WAR. The other many dollars/gallon increase is due to Biden. The war has raised your LNG prices that is hurting your pocket. The only pocket it is not hurting is the LNG shareholders. Stock prices suffered ergo value of companies and workers have suffered. It makes sod all difference if you are selling LNG and don't need the grain.

Secondly maybe you should acquaint yourself with the other things the come out of Ukraine that you DO need. It is not just grain. That is the strategic angle that you are fighting this proxy war for.

Your last paragraph: If you think we are on the brink now what will it be like in 10-15 years when Putin has expanded and subjugated half of eastern Europe? Think of the 1960-1989 period. That's where you'll be except with a strong, more imperial Russia. As for your bullshit about the US doing all the fighting and everyone sits and does nothing. You actually sound racist and full of it.
Vietnam = Originally French soldiers then French/US
Desert Shield = US/UK/Australia/France/Germany/and many others
Desert Storm = See above
Ukraine = NO US TROOPS

If you really think appeasing a bully like Putin will end with Ukraine then I have a bridge to sell you. Negotiate, what a laugh! As for sending my kid to fight for Ukraine, nobody is sending their kids except the Ukrainian parents. Nobody is saying that Ukraine has to join NATO. But allowing it to become part of Russia is a colossal mistake purely on the grounds of their resources. Why do you think Putin wants it?????

Also, if it's so serious why don't BORDERING NATO "allies" march on in?

 

[Nature Boy]

You still don't get it. In every post you conflate Biden with the Ukraine issue. Yes they may have interwoven aspects but they are separate issues. You won't agree. If you want to discuss Biden and his idiocy cool. If you want to discuss the war and should you isolate cool. But they are not the same thing.

In your second paragraph you are either being obtuse or simply don't understand what you're talking about. I'll type this slowly so you can follow: whether you're selling oil or LNG is irrelevant your petrol prices have still increased by at least a dollar DUE TO THE WAR. The other many dollars/gallon increase is due to Biden. The war has raised your LNG prices that is hurting your pocket. The only pocket it is not hurting is the LNG shareholders. Stock prices suffered ergo value of companies and workers have suffered. It makes sod all difference if you are selling LNG and don't need the grain.

Secondly maybe you should acquaint yourself with the other things the come out of Ukraine that you DO need. It is not just grain. That is the strategic angle that you are fighting this proxy war for.

Your last paragraph: If you think we are on the brink now what will it be like in 10-15 years when Putin has expanded and subjugated half of eastern Europe? Think of the 1960-1989 period. That's where you'll be except with a strong, more imperial Russia. As for your bullshit about the US doing all the fighting and everyone sits and does nothing. You actually sound racist and full of it.
Vietnam = Originally French soldiers then French/US
Desert Shield = US/UK/Australia/France/Germany/and many others
Desert Storm = See above
Ukraine = NO US TROOPS

If you really think appeasing a bully like Putin will end with Ukraine then I have a bridge to sell you. Negotiate, what a laugh! As for sending my kid to fight for Ukraine, nobody is sending their kids except the Ukrainian parents. Nobody is saying that Ukraine has to join NATO. But allowing it to become part of Russia is a colossal mistake purely on the grounds of their resources. Why do you think Putin wants it?????

lmao, unreal you don't know this:
What convinced the French to pull out of Vietnam?


2) What convinced the French to pull out of Vietnam? The French troops were unable to defeat the Vietminh guerrillas, and casualties made the war increasingly unpopular with the French people. When the French lost Dien Bien Phu to the Vietminh, they decided to make peace and withdraw from Indochina.


Despite financial assistance from the United States, nationalist uprisings against French colonial rule began to take their toll. On May 7, 1954, the French-held garrison at Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam fell after a four month siege led by Vietnamese nationalist Ho Chi Minh.

 

[Randy F]

I'm an American, I know more about it than you. The left in the USA has been after Putin for whatever reason for a long time and he's no threat. Their economy is smaller than Cali's. This was their opening and they took it. Regime change is their goal. The USA did a coup in corrupt Ukraine in 2014 and they started poking the bear for no reason other than grifting money. Now, we are staring down a nuclear war and laugh all you want. They just ran tv ads in New York telling people what to do. How stupid could anybody be. Give them dongrass and keep them out of Nato. who cares.

I'll type it SLOW for you. That is BULLSHIT. We can produce a lot more at home but this commie admin is stopping it. Sending their EPA goons to the permean basin to geton them about LNG, which is clean. The USA produces among the cleanest oil in the world too.

About 11% of US natural gas production is now exported as LNG.Sep 19, 2022

We don;t need anything from Ukraine einstein. The only wheat we are buying now is for other poor countries as we have to feed the world unlike anybody else. The main thing we get are ferrous metals.

Lol, are you serious? see: NATO, our big bad allies and the "treaty" lmao

So you want nuclear war, sweet.

In my state, more than one politician is so tired of hearing from me that they've even stopped sending back the obligatory and courteous "Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention..." emails.
You do have some valid points and your frustrations are, I'm sure by now, quite clear to everyone here.

My point is that I sincerely hope that your efforts to voice the opinions you are clearly so passionate about are not limited to the politics thread on a hunting site. It sounds like you should be on the debate stage as you make a run for office.

 

[Zambezi]

I'm an American, I know more about it than you. The left in the USA has been after Putin for whatever reason for a long time and he's no threat. Their economy is smaller than Cali's. This was their opening and they took it. Regime change is their goal. The USA did a coup in corrupt Ukraine in 2014 and they started poking the bear for no reason other than grifting money. Now, we are staring down a nuclear war and laugh all you want. They just ran tv ads in New York telling people what to do. How stupid could anybody be. Give them dongrass and keep them out of Nato. who cares.

I'll type it SLOW for you. That is BULLSHIT. We can produce a lot more at home but this commie admin is stopping it. Sending their EPA goons to the permean basin to geton them about LNG, which is clean. The USA produces among the cleanest oil in the world too.

About 11% of US natural gas production is now exported as LNG.Sep 19, 2022

We don;t need anything from Ukraine einstein. The only wheat we are buying now is for other poor countries as we have to feed the world unlike anybody else. The main thing we get are ferrous metals.

Lol, are you serious? see: NATO, our big bad allies and the "treaty" lmao

So you want nuclear war, sweet.

Once again Biden and his administration on domestic issues. Domestic issues!

You are so hell bent on your hate for Biden (I'm with you there) that you you are not understanding anything beyond that.

The mark of someone who realises he doesn't know everything is that he is willing to listen and learn if there is anything to learn. Well I hear your points and some are empirically correct and I agree with a lot of what you are saying but it is surface thinking and does not delve deep enough. What I think you need to realise is that your international view is short term thinking (Isolationism always is). If you can't think strategically or longer term then you are doomed to failure.

You will ALWAYS need the rest of the world. Either as a market for your goods/resources/services or you will need the world for resources you don't have enough of (Lithium etc). Yes you can live for another 100 years without the rest of the world but by them you'll look like a stone-age civilisation as the world passes you by. But most importantly the rest of the world will probably all be speaking Russian or Chinese and they won't be your trading partners/allies they will be your adversaries.

Lastly your opening line "I'm American, I know more about it than you"....maybe this attitude sums you up.

So I could give two hoots and let you get on with it. No amount of facts or common sense can change a closed mind.

Peace out.