Politics

[freefall]

The one point that everyone has overlooked in the Ukraine situation is that at some point (I disremember who the President was at the time) WE GUARANTEED Ukraines safety and independence if they would give up THEIR nukes, which they did.
I admit I am just a plumb dumber, not a general or international tycoon, but MY word means something. Not that I will feed just you enough to carry on in the meat grinder.
I have always had the deepest contempt for the guys that would sit back and say "Let's you and him fight it out".

 

[John Wasmuth]

Well golly, looks like mayor Adams of NYC is of no further use to the Briben administration…. Indicted today on corruption charges…. Imagine that… I guess the big guy didn’t get his 10%?

 

[freefall]

That'll teach him to complain about being inundated with illegal aliens.

 

[John Wasmuth]

That'll teach him to complain about being inundated with illegal aliens.

Ya think? Can’t go against the grain ya know….

 

[Hunt anything]

Don't forget, there would be several "Harrumphs".

Nice “Blazing Saddles” reference, if Kamala gets elected I fear that would resemble one of her cabinet meetings.

 

[freefall]

"Give the Kamala a harrumph!"
A better reference, "We've got to save our phoney baloney jobs, gentlemen!"

 

[Red Leg]

A good example of why I wish we had almost anyone else but Trump as our nominee. These were his comments at his rally in North Carolina with respect to Ukraine and Zelensky.

"We continue to give billions of dollars to a man who refuses to make a deal," Trump said at a campaign rally in North Carolina.

"So many dead people, any deal, even the worst deal, would have been better than what we have right now," the former US president said.

"You have a country that has been obliterated, not possible to be rebuilt," Trump continued, referring to the situation in Ukraine. "It will take hundreds of years to rebuild it. There's not enough money to rebuild it if the whole world got together."

So yes, Zelensky is the president of a country that refuses to make a deal that represents abject surrender to a bloody dictator. There was a time not so long ago this country would have respected such a Churchillian stance of that type. History is full to overflowing of examples where any deal or the worst deal was a very, very bad idea.

Secondly, he then absolutely lies to an audience so uninformed that they loudly applaud him. Or else, he is so ignorant of the situation in Ukraine he believes what he is saying. But he was President, so I have to believe he is simply playing his unquestioning followers for chumps.

Ukraine has hardly been obliterated. Except for occasional missiles that get through, the destruction has been almost exclusively along the line of contact and in Russian occupied areas in the eastern 20% of the country. Thanks to Ukrainian force of arms, Kyiv and Lviv are vibrant cities largely untouched by the war and are regularly visited by Western delegations and heads of state.

Yes it will take billions to restore much of battle zone. Fortunately, several hundred of those billions are Russian in frozen in Western accounts. With respect to financing, a couple of US banks could manage it much less the whole world.

I remain convinced that this egotistical narcissist is so obsessed with his own sense of grievance that the interests of the US, and in this case the Ukrainian people, are irrelevant to him. And not a single one of the cheering multitude questions it.

I am a republican, and it truly offends me that he believes I am that ignorant..

 

[mdwest]

A colleague of mine at another firm is executing multiple contracts in Ukraine. He, as the CEO of a mid market firm still makes routine visits to Kiev… and is comfortable doing so…

I actually just spoke with him today..

He reports that Kiev is indeed very much still intact and largely unscathed.. he feels secure from the moment he leaves the airport to go to the embassy or his hotel, until the moment he departs to return home.. and that the media has way over played Russias effectiveness at shutting down the Ukrainian economy and its capital city…

 

[Datchew]

So, let us indeed follow this thought process. We allow Putin his every objective because he has nuclear weapons………. I suspect Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave, because we have just made this nation a hostage to Putin’s threats and ambitions.

After all, your logic, and that of the historically ignorant isolationists, says we should stand by while he invades a country that has been independent for thirty years because he has nukes. Do some reading about the Balkans and the Baltic coast. Do we roll over again when he moves on Lithuania which has been independent just as long as Ukraine. How about Estonia and Latvia? I guess he should have those as well because, you know, he had nukes. Why not Finland and Sweden, their history of conflict with Russia goes far deeper into history. Or let's make a clean sweep of the whole mess and give him Poland, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic. Then we can put a quarter of million troops back in Germany, raise our defense spending to 5% of GDP and work at ignoring the Pacific.

I think this argument is self-defeating and ignores the reality of the current situation which is whatever Putin does with nuclear weapons, the West can repay tenfold. I assure you Putin realizes this, even if his apologists allies in the West do not.

I see you edited after my last response.

I have friends closer than blood family in Lithuania. Vilnius and Anykščiai region.
I assure you neither they, not I, are ignorant of regional history.
And FFS they are not fans of Russian or Putin apologists.

By your descriptions, Putin's capabilities are diminished and lacking.
The guy is 70-something. Perhaps it's time to stop adding fuel to the fire and let him fade out in his diminished (and his capability's diminished) state.
This is not Chamberlain vs Hitler v2.0.

Your intentionally condescending style is not helping your argument.

 

[freefall]

I see you edited after my last response.

I have friends closer than blood family in Lithuania. Vilnius and Anykščiai region.
I assure you neither they, not I, are ignorant of regional history.
And FFS they are not fans of Russian or Putin apologists.

By your descriptions, Putin's capabilities are diminished and lacking.
The guy is 70-something. Perhaps it's time to stop adding fuel to the fire and let him fade out in his diminished (and his capability's diminished) state.
This is not Chamberlain vs Hitler v2.0.

Your intentionally condescending style is not helping your argument.

But you neglect one salient point. He's smarter than us.

 

[Red Leg]

I see you edited after my last response.

I have friends closer than blood family in Lithuania. Vilnius and Anykščiai region.
I assure you neither they, not I, are ignorant of regional history.
And FFS they are not fans of Russian or Putin apologists.

By your descriptions, Putin's capabilities are diminished and lacking.
The guy is 70-something. Perhaps it's time to stop adding fuel to the fire and let him fade out in his diminished (and his capability's diminished) state.
This is not Chamberlain vs Hitler v2.0.

Your intentionally condescending style is not helping your argument.

I may have edited something but it would not have had anything to do with one of your posts.

It is rather difficult to let Putin fade away when his army is sitting in Ukraine trying to re-incorporate it into Russia. I think it is extraordinarily dangerous to believe he or his successor's ambitions will be cooled if this ends in a Russian victory. Read some of Dmitry Medvedev's, a likely successor, comments on Ukraine. At that point your friends truly will be then on the front line.

I absolutely believe that 1938 is far and away the most accurate precedent that we have for the current situation.

If you don't like what I say or how I say it, then please block me. I admit, I grow weary of some of what I read. It likely shows. Nothing was aimed at you personally.

But you neglect one salient point. He's smarter than us.

These discussions have zero to do with intelligence. But we all do have varying levels of experience at different things. I do not believe that I would attempt to tell you how to fix a drain system.

 

[1dirthawker]

I would posit it's not increasing in value. Instead, the currency you price it in (USD in this case) is simply losing it's buying power. Gold typically isn't an investment or an asset but it is a store of value that doesn't decay physically or get weakened by inflation.

100%
+1

 

[WAB]

A good example of why I wish we had almost anyone else but Trump as our nominee. These were his comments at his rally in North Carolina with respect to Ukraine and Zelensky.

"We continue to give billions of dollars to a man who refuses to make a deal," Trump said at a campaign rally in North Carolina.

"So many dead people, any deal, even the worst deal, would have been better than what we have right now," the former US president said.

"You have a country that has been obliterated, not possible to be rebuilt," Trump continued, referring to the situation in Ukraine. "It will take hundreds of years to rebuild it. There's not enough money to rebuild it if the whole world got together."

So yes, Zelensky is the president of a country that refuses to make a deal that represents abject surrender to a bloody dictator. There was a time not so long ago this country would have respected such a Churchillian stance of that type. History is full to overflowing of examples where any deal or the worst deal was a very, very bad idea.

Secondly, he then absolutely lies to an audience so uninformed that they loudly applaud him. Or else, he is so ignorant of the situation in Ukraine he believes what he is saying. But he was President, so I have to believe he is simply playing his unquestioning followers for chumps.

Ukraine has hardly been obliterated. Except for occasional missiles that get through, the destruction has been almost exclusively along the line of contact and in Russian occupied areas in the eastern 20% of the country. Thanks to Ukrainian force of arms, Kyiv and Lviv are vibrant cities largely untouched by the war and are regularly visited by Western delegations and heads of state.

Yes it will take billions to restore much of battle zone. Fortunately, several hundred of those billions are Russian in frozen in Western accounts. With respect to financing, a couple of US banks could manage it much less the whole world.

I remain convinced that this egotistical narcissist is so obsessed with his own sense of grievance that the interests of the US, and in this case the Ukrainian people, are irrelevant to him. And not a single one of the cheering multitude questions it.

I am a republican, and it truly offends me that he believes I am that ignorant..

I am amazed by those who call for Ukraine
to make a deal and give up territory and people who are rightfully Ukrainian. As a nation, we would never bow to an aggressor and do this, how can we in good conscience call for Ukraine to do so? In my mind those who call for Ukraine to capitulate are not very far removed from those protesting Israel as they cheer on Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[mdwest]

Agree…

We wouldn’t just give back Alaska if the Russians laid historical claim to it and decided they didn’t like the deal they struck with us in the 1860’s.. and we’d fight until we couldn’t fight any longer to retain it…

But some Americans think Ukraine should just bow to Russia because Russia lays claim to parts of their land?

While I don’t agree with those that think we should stop supporting Ukraine, I can at least understand their argument…

I don’t understand the argument that the Ukrainians should just concede and make a deal at all though…

 

[Altitude sickness]

I actually think the Ukraine War, fight to a draw or stalemate is now the best case scenario. Or Putin is assassinated by external or internal means and cooler heads prevail.

I think it’s a huge mistake to keep calling Putins nuke threats, A bluff. It forces his hand when he is pushed too far.

When Ukraine gets the jets into action. And they take more ground. Putin will either start testing Nukes in northern Russia, as a show of force.

Then would most likely use the short-range Iskander-M missile. 1–50 kilotons, a blast radius of about a mile wider than the bomb the U.S. military dropped on Hiroshima. Hopefully China would then separate themselves from Putin.

I don’t think NATO would escalate and go full nuclear war on Russia. They would then negotiate terms.

IMHO this ends one way or another with Russia gaining some Ukrainian soil. There is no 100% winning scenario. Putin is not going to lose face.

The other option is full out WW III troops in Russia, China and N. Korea

 

[mdwest]

He’s already lost face. The Russian propagandists try their best to tell another story, but with the number of losses the Russians have taken, there is no way the general populous don’t know the truth (or at least know the propagandists are lying).. and the “special operation” that was supposed to be over in a matter of moments has already dragged on for better than 2 1/2 years… and now you have the Ukrainian forces striking targets inside Russia with some frequency…

Putin just hasn’t lost power yet..

But he’s lost plenty of face… not only amongst the western world but also with his traditional eastern allies…

All accounts I’m reading show that Russia needs the war to end (assuming it continues at its current pace) by mid 2025 to early 2026 or it simply won’t have the resources necessary to continue…

That assumes Xi and others won’t agree to put Russia in a position of permanent servitude and increase the supply of arms and munitions… but if that happens, that’s a win for the western world as well… Russia with its stockpiles depleted and china then reducing its stockpiles to keep Russia in the fight just renders china a little less capable…

So if I’m Zelensky… I’m just trying to hold on tight until summer of next year and convince the US and Europe to help me do so…

At that point retaking Ukrainian land would potentially be a less daunting task..

 

[Altitude sickness]

General Jack Keene has repeatedly said. The U.S. is no where close to fighting multiple theaters simultaneously. Also, We don’t have the heavy industry to ramp up quickly like we did for WWII.

Luckily the Northern European nations that just joined NATO are very well prepared and competent. It would take a huge world alliance to go against the latest axis. Russia, China, N. Korea.

Then while we are all fixated on Russia the Arabs and Persians would take the opportunity to wipe out Israel and come at the US

I’m typing this from my bunker

 

[Altitude sickness]

Mdwest, I like your scenarios more than mine.

 

[Red Leg]

A pretty good summary released by Senator Roger Wicker (Republican/Mississippi). It captures my frustration with the current administration's support of Ukraine. It is also good to see a Republican senator from the South not cowed by Trump's nonsensical rhetoric.

Senator Wicker Statement on President Biden Planning to Use Presidential Drawdown Authority for Ukraine

www.wicker.senate.gov

 

[ActionBob]

General Jack Keene has repeatedly said. The U.S. is no where close to fighting multiple theaters simultaneously. Also, We don’t have the heavy industry to ramp up quickly like we did for WWII.

Luckily the Northern European nations that just joined NATO are very well prepared and competent. It would take a huge world alliance to go against the latest axis. Russia, China, N. Korea.

Then while we are all fixated on Russia the Arabs and Persians would take the opportunity to wipe out Israel and come at the US

I’m typing this from my bunker

You don't include Iran in that Axis of Evil?