Politics

I think America has no appetite to invade Russia. Nato... I don't feel as confident. Like all government entities, they exist to grow and metastasize.

I also think Ukraine had at least 2-3 big opportunities to make peace since this started. One supposedly blown up by Boris Johnson (who always looks like he just rubbed a balloon on his hair.)
The other 2, I believe Zelensky passed on the opportunity.
You make a good point about it being their choice, but they appear to have chosen bloodshed, devastation of homeland, and complete financial ruin. Why would we support it?

(Side note - line up the timeline on bond market actions with the handful of banks in UK and EU with the timing of the debt service deadlines Ukraine owes. It's a little overly coincidental. Blackrock, Fideltiy, JPMorgan, PIMCO, etc., are all involved in negotiations that suddenly get "better" with rate and policy changes)

I may be wrong. Won't be the first time. But I don't see Russia going "the full Hitler" (trying to takeover the world) as much as finally putting his foot down for what he views (and I don't, mind you) as an existential threat to his country.
There's also some "re-unify old Russia" type flavor in his head as well I think.

I'll take a stab at speculating that maybe the sticking point is that some of us view lack of support as aid to the Russians. I view lack of support as it's not vital to our interests when other fires are burning brighter so support those instead.

I've been asked before "What about when Putin invades America after we pacify him in Ukraine?"
A - I think it's silly
B - We've been stuck in this 1 data point Chamberlin/Hitler/Churchill though process for too long
C - If he or someone else did invade, because of our poor prioritization of things we should be attending to, they'll takeover a burned out shack.

The idea of NATO as a whole invading Russia without the support of the USA sees about as likely as Sandra Bullock finding me attractive.

I do think if Putin had his wishes he most certainly would continue to make trouble. Putin in reality is the most signficant existential threat to Russia at this point.

I've no idea who has seriously asked when Putin invades America after we pacify him in Ukraine. Eastern Europe however could certainly be game? If there's any aspect where I have agreement with those not in support of Ukraine is that the weakness of Russia.

Russian military strength was greatly over estimated. No one thought Ukraine would last more than few days or weeks when Russia invaded. But Ukrainian resolve was under estimated along with Russia being overestimated. And now thanks to the position Putin put himself in, his military has been decimated. It will take a long time for Russia to rebuild to the not so great state it was in prior to the war, much less one to be greatly feared.

If that's the case, it's a reasonable question to ask then why continue? My answer to that is if Putin wants to continue walking his military of the cliff and all it takes from us is supplying Ukraine with the weapons to help him do that, why not?
 
Youve stated on more than one occasion that you have a son that is an officer in the USMC...

Youre now stating you are familiar with Asymetric Warfare by virtue of having a family member that is currently (and previously) involved in it..

Youve also stated definitively what Israel has done related to the pagers is terrorism..

It has not.. not by the UNs own definition (even though certain elements in the UN have tried to assert that the pager act was terrorism the UNs definition does not support it).. not by the US militarys definition (which your son is part of and has been involved in asymetric warfare with by your account and where you claim to have familiarity from).. not by the websters dictionary definition..

Clearly what familiarity or understanding you have is extremely limited based on your statements in previous posts as well as the one above...

Perhaps you would benefit from a bit more research before continuing to make statements about things that others that are actually well versed in here (I can think of at least a half dozen people off the top of my head that frequent this forum that were deeply involved in countless direct action activities for decades on multiple continents across the span of 40+ years in various fights against asymetric enemies) before continuing to assert that you have a clue about what you are talking about..

FWIW, by virtue of what I do for a living, I routinely (sometimes daily) deal with asymetric warfare issues and support multiple branches of government both domestically and internationally with mentors/advisors/consultants that are considered to be AW SME's.. its not something Im merely familiar with.. its how I have made a living for the better part of the past 2+ decades.. prior to that I was for about a decade involved in a much more direct way with asymetric threats.. other than the decade I took off to be a cop, its pretty much what Ive spent the entirety of my adult life focused on..

Your open source examples and your statement that "otherwise asymetric warfare becomes terrorism" shows a huge lack in the familiarity you claim to have...
 
I think America has no appetite to invade Russia. Nato... I don't feel as confident. Like all government entities, they exist to grow and metastasize.

I also think Ukraine had at least 2-3 big opportunities to make peace since this started. One supposedly blown up by Boris Johnson (who always looks like he just rubbed a balloon on his hair.)
The other 2, I believe Zelensky passed on the opportunity.
You make a good point about it being their choice, but they appear to have chosen bloodshed, devastation of homeland, and complete financial ruin. Why would we support it?

(Side note - line up the timeline on bond market actions with the handful of banks in UK and EU with the timing of the debt service deadlines Ukraine owes. It's a little overly coincidental. Blackrock, Fideltiy, JPMorgan, PIMCO, etc., are all involved in negotiations that suddenly get "better" with rate and policy changes)

I may be wrong. Won't be the first time. But I don't see Russia going "the full Hitler" (trying to takeover the world) as much as finally putting his foot down for what he views (and I don't, mind you) as an existential threat to his country.
There's also some "re-unify old Russia" type flavor in his head as well I think.

I'll take a stab at speculating that maybe the sticking point is that some of us view lack of support as aid to the Russians. I view lack of support as it's not vital to our interests when other fires are burning brighter so support those instead.

I've been asked before "What about when Putin invades America after we pacify him in Ukraine?"
A - I think it's silly
B - We've been stuck in this 1 data point Chamberlin/Hitler/Churchill though process for too long
C - If he or someone else did invade, because of our poor prioritization of things we should be attending to, they'll takeover a burned out shack.

What would our ‘choice’ be if Russia invaded Alaska??? You take a very light view of another nations sovereignty.
 
Youve stated on more than one occasion that you have a son that is an officer in the USMC...

Youre now stating you are familiar with Asymetric Warfare by virtue of having a family member that is currently (and previously) involved in it..

Youve also stated definitively what Israel has done related to the pagers is terrorism..

It has not.. not by the UNs own definition (even though certain elements in the UN have tried to assert that the pager act was terrorism the UNs definition does not support it).. not by the US militarys definition (which your son is part of and has been involved in asymetric warfare with by your account and where you claim to have familiarity from).. not by the websters dictionary definition..

Clearly what familiarity or understanding you have is extremely limited based on your statements in previous posts as well as the one above...

Perhaps you would benefit from a bit more research before continuing to make statements about things that others that are actually well versed in here (I can think of at least a half dozen people off the top of my head that frequent this forum that were deeply involved in countless direct action activities for decades on multiple continents across the span of 40+ years in various fights against asymetric enemies) before continuing to assert that you have a clue about what you are talking about..

FWIW, by virtue of what I do for a living, I routinely (sometimes daily) deal with asymetric warfare issues and support multiple branches of government both domestically and internationally with mentors/advisors/consultants that are considered to be AW SME's.. its not something Im merely familiar with.. its how I have made a living for the better part of the past 2+ decades.. prior to that I was for about a decade involved in a much more direct way with asymetric threats.. other than the decade I took off to be a cop, its pretty much what Ive spent the entirety of my adult life focused on..

Your open source examples and your statement that "otherwise asymetric warfare becomes terrorism" shows a huge lack in the familiarity you claim to have...
Everybody’s gotta be something……
 
The idea of NATO as a whole invading Russia without the support of the USA sees about as likely as Sandra Bullock finding me attractive.

I do think if Putin had his wishes he most certainly would continue to make trouble. Putin in reality is the most signficant existential threat to Russia at this point.

I've no idea who has seriously asked when Putin invades America after we pacify him in Ukraine. Eastern Europe however could certainly be game? If there's any aspect where I have agreement with those not in support of Ukraine is that the weakness of Russia.

Russian military strength was greatly over estimated. No one thought Ukraine would last more than few days or weeks when Russia invaded. But Ukrainian resolve was under estimated along with Russia being overestimated. And now thanks to the position Putin put himself in, his military has been decimated. It will take a long time for Russia to rebuild to the not so great state it was in prior to the war, much less one to be greatly feared.

If that's the case, it's a reasonable question to ask then why continue? My answer to that is if Putin wants to continue walking his military of the cliff and all it takes from us is supplying Ukraine with the weapons to help him do that, why not?
I agree with everything regarding the Ukraine conflict. I believe you didn’t go far enough with the Russian military. Demographically, they are a declining population. The Russian military is becoming exhausted of personnel. It also is becoming more restricted with munitions and equipment.

You asked a question regarding the aid for Ukraine. I would like to play the contrarian for my response. Ukraine has not provided the same level of aid to the U.S. as the U.S. has done for them. This is not to single out Ukraine. Many of the U.S. allies have not done that either. I say that and still ask, why should the U.S. use tax dollars to defend Ukraine when the U.S. should protect its borders? Also asking, what is the more immediate threat to the American way of life?

All sides have valid arguments.
 
I agree with everything regarding the Ukraine conflict. I believe you didn’t go far enough with the Russian military. Demographically, they are a declining population. The Russian military is becoming exhausted of personnel. It also is becoming more restricted with munitions and equipment.

You asked a question regarding the aid for Ukraine. I would like to play the contrarian for my response. Ukraine has not provided the same level of aid to the U.S. as the U.S. has done for them. This is not to single out Ukraine. Many of the U.S. allies have not done that either. I say that and still ask, why should the U.S. use tax dollars to defend Ukraine when the U.S. should protect its borders? Also asking, what is the more immediate threat to the American way of life?

All sides have valid arguments.

I don't know why it should have to be a choice between one or the other, let's do both.
 
'll take a stab at speculating that maybe the sticking point is that some of us view lack of support as aid to the Russians. I view lack of support as it's not vital to our interests when other fires are burning brighter so support those instead.

I say that and still ask, why should the U.S. use tax dollars to defend Ukraine when the U.S. should protect its borders? Also asking, what is the more immediate threat to the American way of life?

First it is not really either or. Helping Ukraine with a miniscule amount of our defense budget is not going to prevent taking care of domestic issues. Heck, in regard to domestic spending there is more disagreement on spending priorities of discretionary portions of our budget than spending money on Ukraine.

Secondly, again we live in a Worldwide economy, turtling as most of anti-Ukraine people wish to do is not going to help us.

Finally, what kind of message does it send to China vis a vis Taiwan if we abandon Ukraine? People like Trump Jr. suggest not letting Russia take over Ukraine increases the risk of WW III. Do you think encouraging China to invade Taiwan by our abandonment of Ukraine increases chance of WW III?

Additionally, anti-Ukraine folks mention the loss of life, as if they really care. No American or NATO lives are being lost. Yes, Ukraine has losses that they are willingly having in order to protect their sovereignty. Russia has orders of magnitude of losses compared to Ukraine. Is Russia decimating their future a bad thing? Our National security does not stop at our own borders.
 
First it is not really either or. Helping Ukraine with a miniscule amount of our defense budget is not going to prevent taking care of domestic issues. Heck, in regard to domestic spending there is more disagreement on spending priorities of discretionary portions of our budget than spending money on Ukraine.

Secondly, again we live in a Worldwide economy, turtling as most of anti-Ukraine people wish to do is not going to help us.

Finally, what kind of message does it send to China vis a vis Taiwan if we abandon Ukraine? People like Trump Jr. suggest not letting Russia take over Ukraine increases the risk of WW III. Do you think encouraging China to invade Taiwan by our abandonment of Ukraine increases chance of WW III?

Additionally, anti-Ukraine folks mention the loss of life, as if they really care. No American or NATO lives are being lost. Yes, Ukraine has losses that they are willingly having in order to protect their sovereignty. Russia has orders of magnitude of losses compared to Ukraine. Is Russia decimating their future a bad thing? Our National security does not stop at our own borders.
Firstly, I do not view conscription as “willing” participants in a war. That is current status of Ukraine’s effort to fund a war.

I do agree with you very much on the irresponsible actions of elected officials as it pertains to our federal budget. I also agree with the point Tanks made. We should, in theory, be able to support our border and Ukraine. Yes, if we don’t fund Ukraine, China may be more encouraged to fight Taiwan. However, nobody can answer my basic question. What has Ukraine done to provide aid to the U.S. historically? Is it even half as much as we have provided them? This is not a rhetorical idea, but I rather doubt that Ukraine ever cared much about the U.S. until they needed our money and military equipment.
 
What would our ‘choice’ be if Russia invaded Alaska??? You take a very light view of another nations sovereignty.

What do you base this on? You may need to read through again.
 
This was well-written and make me see more of your view of things.

My only question on this, which isn't trolling, is this:
You typically post a lot of comments about how poorly the Russian military is organized, how their training is sub-par, how their equipment is run-down, and how they generally don't cut the mustard.
I'm paraphrasing in a broad brush if you'll permit me but I think that's pretty accurate.
With that in mind, how do you see them reemerging as the dominant military power in Eurasia?
That is a legitimate question. Russia was perceived to have had the second most capable army on the planet until they were shown to be something far less. The potential capabilities of their systems led to that original estimate. What was largely unknown was the actual status of their doctrine, training, and organization. That is what has been shown to be pretty bad by US standards.

However, victory has a way of healing a lot of injury. We, and by that I mean the US defense establishment, would assume that Russia will take a litany of lessons learned from this fiasco to apply to their post conflict armed forces in organization, training, and materiel design and acquisition. Being able to do that in the wake of a successful conclusion to this war will be far easier, both economically and politically. Anything that Russia adds as new territory will be an economic bonanza that will help fuel that renaissance.

Defeat, on the other hand, opens the door much wider for corrective measures. Rather than merely fixing an army, perhaps Russia will work at finally fixing their government and national aspirations as well. There are Russians who imagine a state rich in natural resources working closely with Western Europe. Imagine a Russia a generation from now as a contributing member to the EU rather than a 19th century empire threatening all who surround it.

They may also again revert to type. But there too, should this Special Military Operation be perceived as something far less than successful, it will be a generation or more before they again represent a meaningful conventional threat to the West.

Whatever direction Russia takes, Ukraine and its people will have fought and won their right to self-determination. They will have a foundation story, like our revolution, that will unite them for generations. Rather than being yet another subject people under a Russian bootheel, they will have the opportunity to chart a future allied economically, culturally, and politically with Western Europe. Considering some of our bad choices since World War II, in what world is that not in our interests.

Finally, this cost thing is truly an argument for the uninformed. This country spent 6+ trillion dollars last year. The pittance we provided Ukraine truly is a round-off number. Moreover, fully half the defense related contribution was materiel taken out of US storage. An outdated Bradley sitting in the desert will never again carry US troops. Demilling it to scrap metal is incredibly expensive. When we give it to Ukraine, its value (after all tax dollars purchased it) is deducted from the funds allocated to Ukraine. It is an accounting drill. That is true of combat platforms and most munitions we have provided.

Also, this notion that Europe isn't doing their part is another argument for the ignorant. I assume you would agree that if you donated a million dollars to the Red Cross and Warren Buffet did the same that though it would be equal from the perspective of the charity, it would not be exactly the same thing from a donation perspective. You could argue very persuasively that your donation was far more meaningful. The same is true with regard to supporting Ukraine. The US has donated to date approximately .03 % (as in POINT ZERO THREE) of its GDP to the effort in Ukraine. Poland, on the other hand has commited .5% and provided shelter for a million Ukrainian refugees. From a GDP perspective, the US is not quite middle of the pack.

This is as clear an effort in our national interests as I have seen in my lifetime.
 
However, nobody can answer my basic question. What has Ukraine done to provide aid to the U.S. historically? Is it even half as much as we have provided them? This is not a rhetorical idea, but I rather doubt that Ukraine ever cared much about the U.S. until they needed our money and military equipment.
So, everything is transactional with you. That being said Ukraine was involved in the Iraqi war in 2003 both as peacekeepers and also in dealing with Iraqi insurgents.


Also, by your logic we should stop all aid to Israel, quit supporting Taiwan or Japan etc..
 
So, everything is transactional with you. That being said Ukraine was involved in the Iraqi war in 2003 both as peacekeepers and also in dealing with Iraqi insurgents.


Also, by your logic we should stop all aid to Israel.
Yes, I believe the U.S. should act in our own interest. This is the exact same tactic that all of our allies use with our country.
 
Yes, I believe the U.S. should act in our own interest. This is the exact same tactic that all of our allies use with our country.
I have no words. That kind of World view would mean a World dominated by China in the Pacific and Russia in Europe and Iran in the Middle East.

Like a kind of an alternate history Science Fiction novel.
 
I have no words. That kind of World view would mean a World dominated by China in the Pacific and Russia in Europe and Iran in the Middle East.

Like a kind of an alternate history Science Fiction novel.
I appreciate your point of view. I just don’t know what evidence you are using to support your “science fiction novel” claim.
 
I find it interesting that the people who say lack of support for Ukraine equals support for Putin are the same ones who say lack of support for Trump (to include telling everyone that he is unfit to be President) IN NO WAY means they support Harris.
It is always possible to not vote for president because you deem both candidates unfit. I personally do vote for a candidate every election year. A person can be agnostic on both subjects.
 
I find it interesting that the people who say lack of support for Ukraine equals support for Putin are the same ones who say lack of support for Trump (to include telling everyone that he is unfit to be President) IN NO WAY means they support Harris.
They do, they just won’t say they do. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander as the saying goes……
 

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