Politics

Yes, of course! Everything done by every evil regime since the dawn of time is our fault. We forced Japan to attack Pearl Harbor by cutting off their oil. We greased the skids for Stalin to rise to power because of our support for the Western European Allie’s in WWI. We backed both sides of the Iran / Iraq war so naturally Sadaam invaded Kuwait and the Ayatollahs developed nuclear weapons. This idea that the whole world dances to our tune doesn‘t hold water.
 
JPR, since the Korean and Viet Nam conflicts. Every single military conflict that the U.S. has been publicly and openly involved in. We caused some how.


If you look back in history. We either created the initial issue or helped create the environment for that conflict to germinate.

Either on purpose or by accident every conflict we end up in. You can bet a group of greasy politicians stuck their nose in a decade or two before and created the issue.

Unfortunately it’s not just wars these corrupt incompetent people start. The same arrogant, smartest people in the room also created the housing bubble and collapse by forcing banks to loan money to people that could never pay it back.

Then the banks were left holding the bag. So rolled them into a product they could sell off. Which created the collapse. And Barney Frank then blamed the banks for the collapse.

One decade Iran is our freind. The next we help Saddam Hussain because he will fight Iran for us.

We fund the Muj against Russia then two decades later are killing them.

Who are the corrupt, money grubers backing right now that will be our enemy next. And how did Ukraine become the latest proxy war. It’s easy to find out if you don’t listen to the news and believe it.

20 years from now we will be enemies with Ukraine. Bank on it.

These war mongers seem to pop up in every regime. Democrat and republican alike.


I will respectfully disagree with those assertions, particularly the conclusions. Hopefully this will also address @jpr9954 's observations as well.

The United States, since World War II has maintained a remarkably constant foreign policy - regardless of the administration.

For several generations our prosperity was based upon agrarian and mercantile wealth. Even then, the former was dependent upon the later. It was so much so, thanks to the Britain's Continental System blockading most of Europe during the Napoleonic Wars, we found ourselves at war with the world's most powerful maritime power in 1812. Impressment, was an aggravation, but limiting access to international trading partners was a real threat.

Over time, the foundation of our prosperity also came to include the resources associated with power - primarily oil and natural gas. They too, however, were and are dependent upon free access to international markets. It is also important to realize throughout most of that period we were not independent of petroleum products from abroad and virtually all of our Western allies, who represent such huge part of our mercantile prosperity, were and are far more dependent than we.

The rise of the Soviet Union, empowered by its victory over Hitler in WWII and its vast standing army presented a challenge that the West really had not experienced since the seventh century and the explosion of Islam into southern and central Europe. In this case, rather than a religious movement, the West was faced with a political and economic ideology that represented the antithesis of capitalism, and by its very nature an existential threat to the economic and political construct that had enabled American prosperity for two centuries. The threat posed by Soviet power in Europe and the emerging Communist dictatorship in China directly threatened the international economic system (long before terms like "New World Order" or "Globalism" came into vogue) that powered every aspect of Western growth and development.

In the clarity of hindsight, historians like to scoff at things like the "domino theory," but those fears were very real at the time. I would also argue no historian, revisionist or not, knows the actual outcome for Japan or Southeast Asia had South Korea and Vietnam quickly collapsed.

Afghanistan in the 80's was an opportunity to both economically injure our primary rival, but more importantly, divert attention and resources away from areas of more critical national interest such as the Levant and the Persian Gulf. Did that war provide an opportunity for radical Islamic leaders like Osama bin Laden to develop? Regrettably yes, but every action of a great power has unintended consequences that have nothing to do with the correctness of the original strategy's intent.

You will note nothing here I have cited has anything to do directly with banks or corporations.

To allege that the US, beyond its simple existence, had anything to do with 9-11 is to enter the world of conspiracy advocates and Hamas apologists. Following that attack, we had no choice but to eradicate Al Qaida. My only regret, because we missed bin Laden in Torah Borah, is that we didn't simply leave Afghanistan after 24 months and after exterminating as much of the terrorist organization as possible.

Iraq is more complex. As one of those in the Pentagon who advocated against the invasion, I can never-the-less make the argument that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that could have been used against the West. For instance, we now know the Khamisiyah burn pit in March of 1991 was used to destroy, however unwittingly, a meaningful quantity of Iraqi nerve agents.

That said, an Iraqi regime dependent upon the West and belligerent toward Iran would be extremely useful today. Again, such hindsight is remarkable in its clarity. Not unreasonably, it is an observation and an outcome that we continue to champion to this day. It is strategy to which bankers and corporate CEOs react, not instigate.

Still we likely could have maintained Southern Watch, and containment of Iraq indefinitely. Though whatever outcome would have resulted is also speculation based upon assumptions concerning Saddam Hussein's behavior.

If there are any "corrupt money grubbers" they are you and me. Not one single American, except perhaps a few idealistic tree huggers, is prepared to abandon his prosperity or his way of life. Frankly, neither are our allies, however strident their youth, who depend upon the stability created by American armaments and our ability and willingness to use them.

Russia, and its goals in Ukraine, represent a direct threat to undermining that stability.
 
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Yes, of course! Everything done by every evil regime since the dawn of time is our fault. We forced Japan to attack Pearl Harbor by cutting off their oil. We greased the skids for Stalin to rise to power because of our support for the Western European Allie’s in WWI. We backed both sides of the Iran / Iraq war so naturally Sadaam invaded Kuwait and the Ayatollahs developed nuclear weapons. This idea that the whole world dances to our tune doesn‘t hold water.
Left and right are actually a myth. Political views are really a circle. The further in one direction they go, the more they resemble the beliefs and actions of their supposed opposites. Hitler and Stalin were seemingly opposites - the ultimate leadership of right and left wing philosophies. Yet, they were virtually the same in the execution of their governments and their impact on their own citizens and the world.

In our time, leftists have blamed every international challenge faced by the United States on its own leadership or the mysterious puppet masters of the military industrial complex. The neo-isolationists of the populist movement now sagely mouth the same nonsense.
 
“Left and right are actually a myth. Political views are really a circle. The further in one direction they go, the more they resemble the beliefs and actions of their supposed opposites.”

How true.

I didn’t mean to insinuate that the US deserved to be attacked on 911.

Only that we had our grubby little paws in helping make the person that financed it.


It’s a long article. And there are some discrepancies. But largely factual


So after reading this. Was our getting involved with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan worth 911 and the 20 year war that 911 caused.

Which started by us sticking our nose into the Afghanistan/ USSR war.

I am far from anti war. I’m anti losing wars.
 
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“Left and right are actually a myth. Political views are really a circle. The further in one direction they go, the more they resemble the beliefs and actions of their supposed opposites.”

How true.

I didn’t mean to insinuate that the US deserved to be attacked on 911.

Only that we had our grubby little paws in helping make the person that financed it.

It’s a long article. And there are some discrepancies. But largely factual

As I said, there are unintended consequences to every action by a person or a great power. For instance, had Lend Lease not kept the Soviet Union in the war in '41 and '42, it is unlikely it would have survived Germany's onslaught. However, what that post war world would have looked like is anyone's guess.

I am sure were you to ask everyone from Charlie Wilson, to the Director of the CIA, to Ronald Reagan they would say no. But not one of them had your or the author's perfect hindsight.
 
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I wish it was hindsight. Its foresight.

I’ll bet right now we are handing large sums of cash or material goods to some unsavory cartel or characters in Ukraine that 10-20 years will come back to bite us.

For what? the ongoing boogie man of Russian communist expansion
They can’t even take Ukraine let alone roll through Europe
 
I wish it was hindsight. Its foresight.

I’ll bet right now we are handing large sums of cash or material goods to some unsavory cartel or characters in Ukraine that 10-20 years will come back to bite us.

For what? the ongoing boogie man of Russian communist expansion
They can’t even take Ukraine let alone roll through Europe
You do know they aren't communists?

And the Soviet boogie man was very real for most of my professional career. Neither this country nor Western Europe needs its return in Russian guise.

They haven't taken Ukraine because we and our allies have provided the means for Ukraine to defend themselves - at least until now.
 
I wish it was hindsight. Its foresight.

I’ll bet right now we are handing large sums of cash or material goods to some unsavory cartel or characters in Ukraine that 10-20 years will come back to bite us.

For what? the ongoing boogie man of Russian communist expansion
They can’t even take Ukraine let alone roll through Europe
My dad used to say, "foreign aid is like feeding the ducks, they always come back and shit on you later".
 
As I said, there are unintended consequences to every action by a person or a great power. For instance, had Lend Lease not kept the Soviet Union in the war in '41 and '42, it is unlikely it would have survived Germany's onslaught. However, what that post war world would have looked like is anyone's guess.

I am sure were you to ask everyone from Charlie Wilson, to the Director of the CIA, to Ronald Reagan they would say no. But not one of them had your or the author's perfect hindsight.
WE, as Americans have very short memories of bad things that happen to other countries (and their people) around the world. Why? Because they've NEVER happened here with the exception of Pearl Harbor, 911 and maybe the Japanese "picnicking" in the Aleutian Islands for a bit during WW2. Nobody here remembers that and fewer and fewer remember what happened at Pearl Harbor and why. After WW1, WE became an isolationist country. FDR came up with the "lend lease" program to provide Great Britain and Russia with needed weapons to help brunt the Nazi war machine bent on taking over the World. It wasn't until the attack on Pearl Harbor that we realized that appeasement and isolationism didn't work to keep the wolves from our doorstep. IMHO, if it weren't for a few fortuitous twists of fate (being damn lucky!) and some good intelligence at the right time, we could have lost at LEAST the Pacific Theatre in WW2 to the Japanese. WE, the United States, ALONE spent at least 52% of our GDP fighting for our survival during WW2. Sure, OUR 911, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and most recently, the attack on Israel by Hamas (Iran) were not even close to EITHER WW1 or 2. The billions of dollars spent by us and European nations for Ukraine and Israel are an absolute PITTANCE of the necessary BLOOD and TREASURE that WILL be spent should Russia defeat Ukraine and end up on Europe's Eastern border and the TERRORSIST factions (Iran) in the Middle East defeat Israel, the ONLY (Turkey has shown it can't be trusted) Democratic and staunch pro Western Middle Eastern country. So, a few hundred billion now, or perhaps a couple of TRILLION later. And those billions now, should be garnered from frozen Russian (including complicit Oligarchs), Iranian and North Korean assets around the World. There are no enforceable International rules anymore. China, Russia, Iran and North Korea have shown us that. The UN has become a USELESS International body of worthlessness IMO, and the ONLY thing any of the tyrants ruling the aforementioned countries know is STRENGTH by US, the EU, NATO and other allies and getting the living sh** bombed and missiled out of them when they attack us or our Allied countries bases, troops or infrastructure. Neither us, the EU or any of our Allied nations can afford or want to see a repeat of what happened leading up to WW2. Rant over.
 
Like last months jobs report here, whatever the total number of "added" jobs was, the highest number of those jobs were guess what?? Yep, govt jobs!
What a country!
 
Glock - The only gun I personally know and attended the funeral of an officer practicing fast draw at the range and discharging into his leg striking the femoral artery resulting in death.

Pistols with hammers only for me.
Sounds like an unintentional but nonetheless tragic self inflicted accident due to careless handling. The nature of the double action striker fire of the Glock trigger with its two stage design that averages about 6 1/2 to 7# pull makes it one of the safest and most difficult types to have an unintentional discharge with while handling- unless of course the trigger was jacked with?? and that goes for any carry handgun! Glocks require a lot of repetition and practice to shoot well. They do not have a 1/2# 1911 target trigger for shooting bulls’ eyes. The only such "ADs" I've seen involved handguns that had hammers....... disconcerting to be next to a shooter who does it.... kicking up dust and gravel at his feet!

My old carry rig from a previous life. Now my primary self defense gun here at the house.

IMG_5105.JPG
 
Wonder how many Departments America could live without and how much money that would save.


https://twitter.com/FernandoAmandi
Fernando Amandi Sr.
https://twitter.com/FernandoAmandi
@FernandoAmandi

REMARKABLE! In his first act, newly sworn President of Argentina, Javier Milei, signs an executive order reducing the Argentine government from 21 Departments to 9. A major reduction of bureaucracy and overhead. Impressive.
Image

5:53 PM · Dec 10, 2023
·
How many departments could we do without? Without naming the top runners (education comes to mind, though--give that to the states) I would sure like to FIND OUT!
 
Russia, and its goals in Ukraine, represent a direct threat to undermining that stability.
Red Leg,
The outcome of the war is still uncertain.

Russians have stated relatively small territorial goals, denazification, and demilitarization - which will on the end mean (if they win) military neutral Ukraine.

Could you elaborate further, what are the threats to the west in Russian goals, if Russia wins? Are there some other goals they did not reveal?
 
Like last months jobs report here, whatever the total number of "added" jobs was, the highest number of those jobs were guess what?? Yep, govt jobs!
What a country!
And what do those government jobs produce? Nothing other than impediments to real businesses making progress.

When Democrats talk of all the work they have left to do... It scares the heck out me! Kamala Harris loves to say just that. Her idea of "work" is to spend other people's money and find more ways to expand government involvement into our daily personal and business lives.

There are plenty of regulations on the books and agencies to enforce them to cover any perceived need to assure the public interest is protected.

Trump was on the right track requiring agencies to take two regulations off the books for every one they added.

I can tell you from personal experience that you can get in trouble with one government agency by complying with another's rules. Talk about politics going in circles. That is exactly what it has come to.
 
The same arrogant, smartest people in the room also created the housing bubble and collapse by forcing banks to loan money to people that could never pay it back.
That was all a direct result of Bill Clinton's campaign where he talked about how in America every citizen should own their own home. So when he got in office they backed the common sense lending rules off that had proven to function well for decades. Mortgage Brokers, not all of whom were Bankers, started handing out mortgages like it was Christmas. You didn't even need to be able to cash flow the payments because they would capitalize part of the interest back onto the mortgage based on the assumption that inflation of the value of the home would maintain the minimal equity above zero. That was doomed to fail!

I had employees coming to me asking for verification of their income so they could co-sign for a family member to buy some ridiculous home that was way past their income level. I had to spend time teaching basic economics!

To bad someone can't teach basic economics to Democrats but it seems to be beyond all scope of hope for any of them to comprehend.
 
My only regret, because we missed bin Laden in Torah Borah, is that we didn't simply leave Afghanistan after 24 months and after exterminating as much of the terrorist organization as possible.

Iraq is more complex. As one of those in the Pentagon who advocated against the invasion, I can never-the-less make the argument that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that could have been used against the West. For instance, we now know the Khamisiyah burn pit in March of 1991 was used to destroy, however unwittingly, a meaningful quantity of Iraqi nerve agents.

That said, an Iraqi regime dependent upon the West and belligerent toward Iran would be extremely useful today. Again, such hindsight is remarkable in its clarity. Not unreasonably, it is an observation and an outcome that we continue to champion to this day. It is strategy to which bankers and corporate CEOs react, not instigate.

Still we likely could have maintained Southern Watch, and containment of Iraq indefinitely. Though whatever outcome would have resulted is also speculation based upon assumptions concerning Saddam Hussein's behavior.
See, here is where I have to heartily disagree.

Anaconda failed for several reasons, but one of the most telling is a lack of coordination with Fires, specifically regarding Aviation. And what was Aviation doing? Northern and Southern Watch.

Without getting into the reasons why I believe a theater JFACC is a really bad idea (you think we would have learned this by now), what Anaconda made clear is that we were spread far too thin. "Peace Dividend" drawdowns cut far too deep. While I also have deep disagreements with James Webb, he did have a good point.

No one likes to say it out loud, but we had a difficult choice in 2003. We could simply walk away from Northern Watch and Southern Watch, which would carry with it all sorts of problems, or we could obviate the need for Northern Watch and Southern Watch. We chose the latter as the least bad of the two options. And then Paul Bremer came along... but now my personal biases are really getting into it.

Of course, if you want to talk about "containment indefinitely", there was the last year in Afghanistan. But "containment indefinitely" is never a popular option.

Minor disagreement on the "circle" vice "left right". In general, yes, it is a circle. But National Socialism and Communism (there's a right/left scenario) were more than just similar in how they executed government actions. The real difference was "who gets to be in charge?" Stalin led communism strongly believed that Moscow was the "Mecca" of Socialism. Hitler and company were all on board with the Socialism part, but then that's where the "National" part comes in. They were not about to look at Moscow for guidance. Similarly, that other "Right Wing Fascist", Mussolini, was once a staunch Communist. So staunch, he was kicked out of the party for his extremism. He didn't go right in response, he went further left... and there you have your circle... Left becomes right, as west becomes east, if you go far enough.

Of course, we so misuse terms like "Fascist", "Communist", "Socialist" and "Nazi" today that the words no longer have meaning.

To answer the question relating to "before and after the Cold War", and "proxy wars", a good primer is Max Boot's The Savage Wars of Peace. Max has gone of the rails a little bit, but that one is well worth reading.

As far as it all being about chasing dollars, well, Smedley Butler, please call your office.
 
“You do know they aren't communists?”

That sentence was not mine. It was the Cold War mantra for decades. If we don’t stop them here. They will be on our doorsteps.

Well apparently we don’t care as much about our doorstep as we do everyone else’s. I jumped into the thread only to agree with the stance. No more aid to Ukraine until we actually secure our own border first.

My whole military career was about stopping The Soviet expansion.

In the last 30 years. When ever we went through a period as we are now. Where we are so self absorbed we petty bickering. Someone sucker punches us.


Well I submit the next big punch is over due. The border flood gates are open. While I, retired military. need a 6 month back ground check to allow faster airport security screening. Simply amazing.

One thing I can rest easy about is we are really good at AAR’s. As to how the attacks happened. After the fact.
 
That sentence was not mine. It was the Cold War mantra for decades. If we don’t stop them here. They will be on our doorsteps.
I will relate this to my earlier posts. (Hoping for @Red Leg comments)
Basically the question can be: how do we define friends and foes.

During cold war, there was soviet union, and communist doctrine and Warsaw pact alliance.
This basically means that communists will support and export communist ideas and active revolution to western world, wherever possible.
This, understandably will mean threat to every liberal capitalists country.
So we had iron curtain.

With fall of berlin wall, communist system and ideology collapsed.

Modern Russia is not Soviet union, and they are not communists.
Since 1990ies, former communist countries went to process of transition to new system, and we accepted them as allies.
Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, etc.
More over, we took them to Nato alliance.

The transition of political system more or less is in the same way made in Ukraine and in modern Russia. (And Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc) Arguably, they can also be seen as countries with high rate of corruption, if that is an obstacle.

So, Ukraine is ally, Russia is not.

Where does the western interest makes the line in determining an ally from foe, in countries with the same level of transition from communist states to capitalist states?
 
See, here is where I have to heartily disagree.

Anaconda failed for several reasons, but one of the most telling is a lack of coordination with Fires, specifically regarding Aviation. And what was Aviation doing? Northern and Southern Watch.

Without getting into the reasons why I believe a theater JFACC is a really bad idea (you think we would have learned this by now), what Anaconda made clear is that we were spread far too thin. "Peace Dividend" drawdowns cut far too deep. While I also have deep disagreements with James Webb, he did have a good point.

No one likes to say it out loud, but we had a difficult choice in 2003. We could simply walk away from Northern Watch and Southern Watch, which would carry with it all sorts of problems, or we could obviate the need for Northern Watch and Southern Watch. We chose the latter as the least bad of the two options. And then Paul Bremer came along... but now my personal biases are really getting into it.

Of course, if you want to talk about "containment indefinitely", there was the last year in Afghanistan. But "containment indefinitely" is never a popular option.

Minor disagreement on the "circle" vice "left right". In general, yes, it is a circle. But National Socialism and Communism (there's a right/left scenario) were more than just similar in how they executed government actions. The real difference was "who gets to be in charge?" Stalin led communism strongly believed that Moscow was the "Mecca" of Socialism. Hitler and company were all on board with the Socialism part, but then that's where the "National" part comes in. They were not about to look at Moscow for guidance. Similarly, that other "Right Wing Fascist", Mussolini, was once a staunch Communist. So staunch, he was kicked out of the party for his extremism. He didn't go right in response, he went further left... and there you have your circle... Left becomes right, as west becomes east, if you go far enough.

Of course, we so misuse terms like "Fascist", "Communist", "Socialist" and "Nazi" today that the words no longer have meaning.

To answer the question relating to "before and after the Cold War", and "proxy wars", a good primer is Max Boot's The Savage Wars of Peace. Max has gone of the rails a little bit, but that one is well worth reading.

As far as it all being about chasing dollars, well, Smedley Butler, please call your office.
I suspect our opinions are not actually that different.

From a tactical perspective, you are absolutely correct. The Army learned a bloody lesson in Vietnam never to execute air landing ops with regular troops (SOF is a different issue) without covering organic fires. Thanks to decisions made by Rumsfeld, fought against by the Chief and the Army staff, and yet dutifully implemented by Franks, we committed a brigade combat team into an air landing operation without a singe tube of supporting Army artillery. Then during the actual assault, we managed to pull two AC 130's off station because of the reported threat of MANPADS. Kids were dumped into those rocks waiting up to two and a half hours for suppressive joint fires (read air strike). The average wait time for immediate fires was nearly an hour.

But the battle of Torah Borah, to which I referred, was at the end of 2001 - not Anaconda in 2002. At that time we had excellent intelligence about the general location of Bin Laden. The war had not yet become a war against the Taliban and we had cornered a large percentage of the surviving Al Qaida in the Spin Ghar mountain range. A combined force of JSOC, SF, CIA paramilitary, British SBS, and German KSK carried out the ground operation with support of allied Afghani forces. Gary Berntsen, CIA and nominally in command, asked and then begged for the commitment of an available ranger battalion to block the exit routes into Pakistan - a mission well within their capabilities. Rumsfeld, through Franks, denied the request and Bin Laden escaped by either driving across the border, Berntsen's belief, or being airlifted out at the border, as Sean Naylor believed, by the Pakistanis. Had he died or been captured in 2001, I strongly suspect our stay and actions in Afghanistan would have been far shorter.

I lay the blame for our adventure into Iraq at the feet of the regional ignorance of the DOD staff. Paul Wolfowitz, who championed the invasion, was heavily influenced by Ahmed Chalabi, who would wax eloquently about how the Iraqis would welcome US forces with open arms (!), and the Israeli MOD who saw an opportunity to rid themselves of Saddam Hussein (the Israelis are great tacticians, but rarely great strategists). Not a single army Arabist of whom I am aware had any illusions about the reception US troops would receive within Iraq - particularly from the Shia who felt betrayed and abandoned in the aftermath of Desert Storm. That assessment was a major reason Rick Shinseki and the Army Staff advocated an adequate invasion and stabilization force, for which he was ridiculed by Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz. And yes, the eventual Bremer selection compounded that folly exponentially.

I would agree, Boot's work should be required reading of anyone wanting to understand foreign policy and the employment of force. Imperial powers have to act like imperial powers - with apologies to Smedley. We just need to do a better job at keeping small wars from becoming larger ones.

My belief, sadly it didn't originate with me, is that means employed to achieve ends, and mechanisms of control becomes ever similar the farther one moves left and right on the scale or radicalism and at some point they become indistinguishable. This is a function radicalism itself rather than core belief. For the innocent caught up in a car bombing or sentenced to a labor camp, it hardly matters what political theory initially motivated the terrorist or secret police.
 
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