Politics

[Tanks]

...

Getting the average blue collar working American to buy into the concept that sending billions more in aid, be it in tanks or cash, is just as or even more important than their desire to put food on their table and keep a roof overhead is a tough sell especially in this current environment. A competent government would have a hard time selling that to the average blue-collar American people let alone this band of idiots...
...

I submit that your "average blue collar working American" has a pretty narrow worldview and does not look at the events happening worldwide let alone with a critical eye. Heck, something as simple as water access in CA does not have people agreeing in policy.

A lot of people I deal with do not care about Ukraine one way or another. They just go about their lives and work.

 

[fourfive8]

World view? Many are thinking a max of a couple days ahead with the highest priority being what snacks and beer to get for the games over the weekend. They watch about 30 seconds worth of continuous anti- Trump “news” on CNN every evening. Many vote and about half think Trump will be the next Hitler. They think every failed policy of Brandon is Trump’s fault including Bidenomics.

I saw that the average retirement fund has gone down in real value 25 % since Brandon took office. That is directly related to inflation. Inflation is a cumulative process- a concept that seems to escape many if not most. IIRC the inflation rate was steady at about 3%/year at end of last admin. Right now the irregular COLA increases in my retirement income are about 4%. According to latest stats it costs me about 14,500 per year more to live at same standard where I live now as when Trump was in office. Right now crime across the country is out of control. Right now there are annual property tax increases for just about everything. These never sunset. Air travel right now, domestic and intl, is a continual cluster flop. I know!… it has cost me a few thousand $ in non- refundable costs the last 2 1/2 years. Right now there are two wars ongoing and one potentially brewing. Some 8 million illegals have crossed the border since Brandon took office. Geometrically higher than any time under Trump. Brandon’s solution?? Hire more agents to process the increase in paperwork. All I see right now is the weoponization of a corrupt government to prevent political opposition to the party in power.

I have no explanation for TDS

 

[Tanks]

World view? Many are thinking a max of a couple days ahead with the highest priority being what snacks and beer to get for the games over the weekend. ...

That is exactly what I was trying to say in regard to Ukraine aid or lack thereof vis a vis your average blue collar worker. They are a straw man argument for isolationist policies some are trying to justify.

 

[mark-hunter]

Not sure John Lennon would be my populist model. You should refresh yourself with respect to the lyrics of "Imagine." It is essentially a socialist hymn.

I was always "imagining" or better to say considering "imagine" to be a peace hymn, or Vietnam anti - war song. World peace and world without borders, religion and states, does sound unrealistic, dreamers lyrics.

If we are looking at something that can be considered an informal hymn, in the way as it was mentioned, most probably would be Italian, "Bella Ciao". The lyrics describe a young man going to mountains to fight fascists', saying goodbye to his girlfriend, expecting not to survive the battle, asking for flowers sowed on his grave to remind future generations of his fight.

Significance of the song, history, lyrics and translation can be found here.

Bella ciao - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[fourfive8]

That is exactly what I was trying to say in regard to Ukraine aid or lack thereof vis a vis your average blue collar worker. They are a straw man argument for isolationist policies some are trying to justify.

Really? Read past first couple of sentences. You are using a select part of the post out of context.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Would anyone want to wager their favorite rifle that Trump will never be allowed the Presidency again. The three letter agencies will never allow another president that they can’t control or at least have a controlling interest in.

 

[fourfive8]

Unreal!! Posting dialog about a short, partial line from Crossfire Trail and analysis of lyrics from a Beatles song? We are witnessing some deep philosophical discussion now.

 

[Red Leg]

Unreal!! Posting dialog about a short, partial line from Crossfire Trail and analysis of lyrics from a Beatles song? We are witnessing some deep philosophical discussion now.

I realize for most this is a reinforcing "safe space" for old guys posting screeds lamenting the end of the republic, but you are just going to have to make room for a broader discussion.

 

[Red Leg]

That is exactly what I was trying to say in regard to Ukraine aid or lack thereof vis a vis your average blue collar worker. They are a straw man argument for isolationist policies some are trying to justify.

Yep. And about half go to CNN for their 5 minutes and the other half to Fox and never a critical thought between them.

 

[AimSmall]

Song lyrics, at least the versions that have sold millions of copies, often reflect then current issues to society. This would not differ greatly from the 'song' sung by political candidates. Problem is, presidents must have the 'choir' (House/Senate/courts) singing in reasonable harmony. Gotta love politics!

 

[Altitude sickness]

If we’re citing song lyrics, the most appropriate would be

Rush; A Farewell to Kings

 

[AimSmall]

Meanwhile, playing on a distant channel:

Dawlat al-Islam Qamat

 

[Red Leg]

Love it when Bill is on a roll against woke culture.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1733353239343661397

 

[sestoppelman]

Rand Paul said today something that is alarming. We all know, or should know, that the current national debt is fast approaching 34 TRILLION dollars!
Thats bad enough but the fact that we now go in the hole ANOTHER TRILLION approximately every 3 months!!
And Joe spent lots of time bragging about how he "cut the deficit" by 1.7 trillion dollars as if his policies had anything to do with it, they didnt.
But even if he wasnt lying and he was, he has now added 2 trillion to the deficit due totally to his policies!
America cant afford Joe Biden.

 

[BSO Dave]

I submit that your "average blue collar working American" has a pretty narrow worldview and does not look at the events happening worldwide let alone with a critical eye. Heck, something as simple as water access in CA does not have people agreeing in policy.

That's some elitist BS right there...You are making this assertion based on what data exactly? Are you mistakenly assuming that the majority of blue-collar workers are laborers and fast-food employees? The blue-collars I am speaking of are police, firemen, nurses, and skilled techs & tradesmen. These types of Americans that I work, socialize, and pray with by the hundreds... I can assure you that they are quite well-informed and very concerned with not only funding Ukraine, but with all of the backwards priorities of this current Administration. They are pissed off precisely because they are informed and critical! My personal experience with this aside, all of the national polling from this demographic reflects the same...

A lot of people I deal with do not care about Ukraine one way or another. They just go about their lives and work.

If they are indifferent, it's likely for the reasoning I suggested in an earlier post which is that they are an even poorer demographic of folks too consumed with trying to put food on the table and keep a roof overhead rather than be worried about a foreign war that, in all likelihood, will never affect them regardless of the outcome because they are so far down the economic spectrum anyway...

 

[WAB]

I realize for most this is a reinforcing "safe space" for old guys posting screeds lamenting the end of the republic, but you are just going to have to make room for a broader discussion.

I heard a hilarious interview with Eric Burdun, lead singer for the animals. The interviewer asked him what the message was behind the lyrics to ‘House of the Rising Sun’. His answer, ‘honestly man, we were really wasted when we wrote that song’.

 

[jpr9954]

The Cold War saw many proxy wars. Perhaps the biggest two were the Korean Conflict and the Vietnam War where you had the USSR and Red China on one side and the US plus some allies on the other. There were smaller proxy wars, of course, such as in the many bush wars in Africa.

For awhile after the Cold War ended and the Iron Curtain fell, it seemed proxy wars waned while not altogether disappearing.

Now it seems that they are again on an upsurge. You have the smaller internal conflict in Syria and the much larger war in Ukraine. Russia, though still a nuclear power, is not the superpower it was in the days of the USSR. However, China has risen to take its place as an emerging superpower.

Are proxy wars the wave of both the present and the future?

@Red Leg - you served as an officer in both the Cold War and the aftermath if I understand correctly. What say you?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

That's some elitist BS right there...You are making this assertion based on what data exactly? Are you mistakenly assuming that the majority of blue-collar workers are laborers and fast-food employees? The blue-collars I am speaking of are police, firemen, nurses, and skilled techs & tradesmen. These types of Americans that I work, socialize, and pray with by the hundreds... I can assure you that they are quite well-informed and very concerned with not only funding Ukraine, but with all of the backwards priorities of this current Administration. They are pissed off precisely because they are informed and critical! My personal experience with this aside, all of the national polling from this demographic reflects the same...



If they are indifferent, it's likely for the reasoning I suggested in an earlier post which is that they are an even poorer demographic of folks too consumed with trying to put food on the table and keep a roof overhead rather than be worried about a foreign war that, in all likelihood, will never affect them regardless of the outcome because they are so far down the economic spectrum anyway...

I caught an episode of Ivan Carter's show "Defenders of Wildlife" or something close to that. The episode was about elephants. The show concentrated on a local village whose crops, for subsistence, were being raided by some local elephants.

He said something to the effect of "You only have the luxury of caring about elephant conservation if you have a full belly." That's how I remember it, but it could've also been said for these folks, "You don't care about elephant conservation if you have an empty belly."

I thought that a poignant comment and similar to what you're saying.

 

[Altitude sickness]

JPR, since the Korean and Viet Nam conflicts. Every single military conflict that the U.S. has been publicly and openly involved in. We caused some how.


If you look back in history. We either created the initial issue or helped create the environment for that conflict to germinate.

Either on purpose or by accident every conflict we end up in. You can bet a group of greasy politicians stuck their nose in a decade or two before and created the issue.

Unfortunately it’s not just wars these corrupt incompetent people start. The same arrogant, smartest people in the room also created the housing bubble and collapse by forcing banks to loan money to people that could never pay it back.

Then the banks were left holding the bag. So rolled them into a product they could sell off. Which created the collapse. And Barney Frank then blamed the banks for the collapse.

One decade Iran is our freind. The next we help Saddam Hussain because he will fight Iran for us.

We fund the Muj against Russia then two decades later are killing them.

Who are the corrupt, money grubers backing right now that will be our enemy next. And how did Ukraine become the latest proxy war. It’s easy to find out if you don’t listen to the news and believe it.

20 years from now we will be enemies with Ukraine. Bank on it.

These war mongers seem to pop up in every regime. Democrat and republican alike.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Almost certainly not. Biden is bleeding younger voters. Newsome is relatively young, is articulate, and likely smells good (with apologies for stealing Rafe Covington's line). He would reverse that overnight.