Politics

[Red Leg]

It is worth remembering that the Crown Prince is actually running the country and strongly, if quietly, supported the Abraham Accords. His royal cousins and favored technocrats are in control of every state and military organization to include the National Guard which is the country's primary internal security force. Even the religious authorities have signed onto a number of modernization initiatives particularly with respect to women's rights. In short, there is very little old guard remaining.

Israel and Saudi Arabia were very close to an agreement which included normalized relations and full recognition before this event. The growing trend toward normalized relations is a threat to Iran's goals. It is why they have worked so hard to arm the various non-state actors to destabilize the region.

One other aspect of the current conflict that the Palestinian apologists and Palestinians themselves will have to come to grips with is that their cause has been set back a generation. They initiated this attack. More specifically, they chose to gun down, rape, and take prisoner Israeli civilians as their primary target. It now looks likely at least a thousand were murdered. Families driving down a street, families shot in their own homes, and young people murdered at a music festival. Those images are all over the web. No explanation or claimed grievance will excuse that savagery in most of the civilized world. It is noteworthy I think that one of the few groups cheering is the Russian state controlled media.

 

[Red Leg]

Jared Kushner should have been nominated for the Nobel Prize for his work on the Abraham Accords.

I absolutely agree.

 

[Wheels]

Hitler is rolling over in his grave.

 

[Wheels]

Not trying to take away from anything that has happened in Israel, but the staged wounded and killed we will be seeing on our tv's and computers will be almost impossible to verify from this point onward.

The propaganda photos and narratives from both sides will be overwhelming. This war will not be won on the ground but by stories and photos over the airwaves, along with the marching of Palestinian protestors and sympathizers against "Israeli atrocities" in major cities throughout the west.

 

[Doug3006]

Israel has sustained over 1000 murdered civilians. They have no need to “stage” anything. I’m sure Hamas will counter this with pictures of their own, soon to be, thousands of dead. No one but the most cynical Palestinian apologists will forget who started this and the manner it started. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel must eliminate them.

 

[cash_tx]

For what it's worth, looks like 60 Minutes has posted the Gen. Mark Milley interview on YouTube:

 

[Red Leg]

Not trying to take away from anything that has happened in Israel, but the staged wounded and killed we will be seeing on our tv's and computers will be almost impossible to verify from this point onward.

The propaganda photos and narratives from both sides will be overwhelming. This war will not be won on the ground but by stories and photos over the airwaves, along with the marching of Palestinian protestors and sympathizers against "Israeli atrocities" in major cities throughout the west.

You believe this was staged? Nearly 300 young people were killed at this outdoor concert alone. I know of no credible news agency questioning the reality of this savagery.

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2023/10/08/3719997215946853725/640x360_MP4_3719997215946853725.mp4

Though I will absolutely agree we will see all sorts of collateral damage within Gaza when reporters can report freely from there.

 

[Wheels]

Israel has sustained over 1000 murdered civilians. They have no need to “stage” anything. I’m sure Hamas will counter this with pictures of their own, soon to be, thousands of dead. No one but the most cynical Palestinian apologists will forget who started this and the manner it started. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel must eliminate them.

Is this filming being done by Israel, or is this Palestinians dressed as Israelis filming an Israeli boy acting like he was killed by Hamas rockets? Or is it something else entirely.

Doesn't really matter what we think. This video has gone around the world tens of thousands of times. 20%+ of the world population is Muslim. They believe that Israel is faking the 1,000 deaths like this.

The AH political thread general consensus doesn't really matter if we have hundreds of thousands of Muslims marching in western cities over supposed "Israeli atrocities" in two months.

https://x.com/Sprinter99800/status/1711376139153703114?s=20

 

[Wheels]

You believe this was staged? Nearly 300 young people were killed at this outdoor concert alone. I know of no credible news agency questioning the reality of this savagery.

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2023/10/08/3719997215946853725/640x360_MP4_3719997215946853725.mp4

Though I will absolutely agree we will see all sorts of collateral damage within Gaza when reporters can report freely from there.

It would be nice if you would read what I wrote instead of skimming then jumping to conclusions and in turn jumping down my throat. Of course I believe what happened at the concert and the invasion this weekend.

The last part of my first sentence says ........... almost impossible to verify from this point onward.

 

[Wheels]

Just like Hamas is setting controlled fires to the roofs of buildings last night and then setting off fireworks and saying that Israel is blowing up all of Gaza.

 

[Foxi]

On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day.

Have you heard of the Balfour Declaration of 1917? Do you know shat it is? A bill supported by the British in 1917 during the First World War announcing its support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, then an Ottoman region with a small minority Jewish population. In 1945 roosevelt promised the arabs USA would not intervene until Truman came to power. The brits wanted it all to be neutral for their gain.

So yes Israel was created by USA whether you like it or not.

Lybia? Have you ever been there before americas invasion? I know people who worked there from all across europe and not one said a bad word about them and they way they lived( Free education and free healthcare ) .. Look at Lybia now, an american puppet who has nothing of their own but rely on america who destroyed their lifes like they have done since every war they started or intervened in from Vietnam to now.

What was USA reasoming behind killing civilian killings in Iraq? As i recall Madeline albright justfied killing of innocent Iraqi children as a worthy case and you try to tell me USA are the good people in all of this.

I see you an aussie who is brainwashed like the rest 60% of them here.

Tell me do you support Israel shooting at Palestines hopsitals and killing innkcents.

I do not support Hamas doing it as i think its wrong when civilians die in these scenariis but i think you need to knos palestinians to understand what they are going through but you only have one agenda like most aussies i have meet here in 20 years of living here.

I have no desire to hunt Africa but africans are sick to death of being colonised and srill used by the French , Spanish , Italians , British , Portugese , Belgium for their natural resources and even though they have their jndeoendence they are still occupied and infleunced.

Actually you have no idea, but it is quite curious to read your mostly populist nonsense.

 

[jpr9954]

One other aspect of the current conflict that the Palestinian apologists and Palestinians themselves will have to come to grips with is that their cause has been set back a generation. They initiated this attack. More specifically, they chose to gun down, rape, and take prisoner Israeli civilians as their primary target. It now looks likely at least a thousand were murdered. Families driving down a street, families shot in their own homes, and young people murdered at a music festival. Those images are all over the web. No explanation or claimed grievance will excuse that savagery in most of the civilized world. It is noteworthy I think that one of the few groups cheering is the Russian state controlled media.

This brings up another point about civilians being murdered. Given the prevalence on the Internet of pictures of young (and cute) IDF women with their M-16s and armed teachers, we tend to think that most Israelis are armed. They are not. I read an estimate today that only about 1.5% of Israeli civilians have gun permits. These permits allow them 1 firearm and 50 cartridges. I think if I were to poll the members of this forum there would be very few or none that only have one firearm and 50 cartridges.

Yesterday the Israeli minister for National Security relaxed the rules.

From The Reload:

Israeli Minister of National Security Itamar Ben-Gvir announced on Sunday he has ordered officials responsible for issuing gun licenses to broaden its standards. As the death toll inflicted by terror group Hamas grew to over 600, Ben-Gvir said he wants more Israelis to be able to legally arm themselves.

“Today I directed the Firearms Licensing Division to go on an emergency operation in order to allow as many citizens as possible to arm themselves,” he posted, according to a Google translation. “The plan will take effect within 24 hours.”

This emergency order also raises the amount of ammo that can be owned to 100 cartridges. I have 60% of that amount in just two AR magazines ready to go.

I see videos on Reddit's Combat Footage of 4-5 Hamas terrorists being filmed in an alleyway from a 3rd floor apartment as they dash around a corner to spray their AKs at police and IDF soldiers. I daresay that most here could have taken them out with an unplugged Remington 870 filled with 00 buck before they realized what was happening.

A podcaster friend likes to remind people that in times of unrest or natural disasters that you are on your own. For many of those unarmed civilians in Israeli towns on Saturday and Sunday, that was indeed true. Israeli gun control only compounded the danger.

 

[Doug3006]

So what does Hamas think will be gained by this attack? Surely they have some game plan, but I can’t grasp what it could be. They must know what Israel can do, and will do. They must know that Israel will not be deterred by biased media coverage. Israel will utterly destroy Hamases war fighting ability and put Gaza back under occupation. Do they believe that this will derail the normalization talks with Saudis? If so, I think they’re mistaken. Quite the opposite in fact. Saudi will see Iran’s duplicity in this as a warning. I expect that Saudi and Israel will eventually normalize relations.

 

[sestoppelman]

A long but good read by Victor Davis Hanson on the current conflict.

Reflections on Israel’s New Existential War › American Greatness

There have been plenty of terrorist attacks on Israel. A dozen or so conventional wars of various magnitude have been waged against the Jewish state. And more often there have been mixtures of both.

amgreatness.com

 

[VertigoBE]

Seeing the images come out of the Israel-Palestine conflict, I'm sick to my stomach. These hamas terrorists are animals. And the hate runs so deep.
I almost threw up, when seeing a video of one muslim child jumping from an alley into a group of 4 or 5 jewish children and stabbing them all. The victims and the perpetrator could not have had more than 12 years.
This is incomprehensible.

I do fear that the very heavy bombardments by Netanyahu will work counter-effective to de-escalation.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

So what does Hamas think will be gained by this attack? Surely they have some game plan, but I can’t grasp what it could be. They must know what Israel can do, and will do. They must know that Israel will not be deterred by biased media coverage. Israel will utterly destroy Hamases war fighting ability and put Gaza back under occupation. Do they believe that this will derail the normalization talks with Saudis? If so, I think they’re mistaken. Quite the opposite in fact. Saudi will see Iran’s duplicity in this as a warning. I expect that Saudi and Israel will eventually normalize relations.

I've no idea what their game plan is or even if they have one. Subject to those who have a much better mind for world politics than I, I believe this was an existential reaction to the continued march of normalized relations with Saudi Arabia and other countries. It would likely mean eventually the end of Hamas and further isolation of Iran from the rest of the world.

I believe it essentially is equivalent to a poker player being down big and likely to be out of the game shortly going all-in in the hopes of winning a decent pot and being back in the game. I also believe it has about the same likelihood of working, it won't. It may in fact accelerate the demise of Hamas. The western world, particularly the USA, needs to stay out of the way and let Israel do what they must.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I do fear that the very heavy bombardments by Netanyahu will work counter-effective to de-escalation.

You may be right, but I don't think de-escalation is a choice for Netanyahu and Israel now.

 

[Tanner Lee]

I know the death total is higher now on the Israeli side but when 600 had been confirmed I heard some one put this in perspective to what this would equal in the US population. It would equal 24,000 Americans.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

This brings up another point about civilians being murdered. Given the prevalence on the Internet of pictures of young (and cute) IDF women with their M-16s and armed teachers, we tend to think that most Israelis are armed. They are not. I read an estimate today that only about 1.5% of Israeli civilians have gun permits. These permits allow them 1 firearm and 50 cartridges. I think if I were to poll the members of this forum there would be very few or none that only have one firearm and 50 cartridges.

Yesterday the Israeli minister for National Security relaxed the rules.

This emergency order also raises the amount of ammo that can be owned to 100 cartridges.

Hardly "A rifle behind every blade of grass.." is it?

 

[mdwest]

You may be right, but I don't think de-escalation is a choice for Netanyahu and Israel now.

It’s neither an option or a desired result right now in my opinion.