Politics

[sestoppelman]

From the VDH piece I posted above, interesting info on arms.

"Note as well that the Biden administration has insidiously siphoned off key weapons and munitions from emergency stockpiles inside Israel apparently to transfer them to Ukraine. The so-called “War Reserve Ammunition—Israel” is reportedly all but depleted of just the sorts of weapons and shells that will be likely needed in the present crisis.

Who knows, we should soon expect that some of the multibillion-dollar arsenal abandoned to the Taliban—who have now voiced a willingness to help Gaza in the killing of Jews—will end up with Hamas. So we deplete strategic arsenals in Israel, but leave them to the Taliban."

Good ol Joe, what a guy!

 

[Wheels]

From the VDH piece I posted above, interesting info on arms.

"Note as well that the Biden administration has insidiously siphoned off key weapons and munitions from emergency stockpiles inside Israel apparently to transfer them to Ukraine. The so-called “War Reserve Ammunition—Israel” is reportedly all but depleted of just the sorts of weapons and shells that will be likely needed in the present crisis.

Who knows, we should soon expect that some of the multibillion-dollar arsenal abandoned to the Taliban—who have now voiced a willingness to help Gaza in the killing of Jews—will end up with Hamas. So we deplete strategic arsenals in Israel, but leave them to the Taliban."

Good ol Joe, what a guy!

Arms were left in Afghanistan.

Arms have been shipped to Ukraine.

Arms will be shipped to Israel.

Arms supplies are low.

Strategic Petroleum Reserve is drained.

Sounds like a good time for Xi to go to Taiwan.

 

[Ray B]

Sounds like a good time for Xi to go to Taiwan.

I'm certain that the situation has not gone unnoticed by Xi and his advisors.

 

[sestoppelman]

My brother tells me that Jack Carr has a recent book out that sort of ties all these things together.

 

[NE 7x57]

For the average Hamas member the goal of the operation was/is to kill or capture as many infidels as possible with zero regard to age, sex or nationality.

For their leadership and those behind them, the goal is probably multi faceted. Create problems or completely derail the ongoing effort to normalize relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, push Israel into an invasion of Gaza which will be a CQB nightmare, hope for thousands of civilian causalities in Gaza to undermine support for Israel in the west and obviously others goals that we are unaware of at this time.

Israel is faced with a crap sandwich. They need to clear the terrorists out of Gaza but in doing so there will be significant civilian causalities which has the possibility of turning world opinion against them. Additionally their largest supporter is lead by a frail old fool and his handlers whose only concern is staying in power. Not a lot of great options for them but I am reminded of a quote which might apply to their strategy,

"This war differs from other wars, in this particular. We are not fighting armies but a hostile people, and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war."
William Tecumseh Sherman

 

[sestoppelman]

One thing for certain, is that the methods used previously to rein in the terror attacks from Gaza and elsewhere havent worked.
Heartless as it may seem, if Israel expects to survive as a nation, it will have to go full out this time and hurt them so bad they either wont or cant do it again.

Nothing else will accomplish the goal.

 

[spike.t]

 

[jpr9954]

For the average Hamas member the goal of the operation was/is to kill or capture as many infidels as possible with zero regard to age, sex or nationality.

For their leadership and those behind them, the goal is probably multi faceted. Create problems or completely derail the ongoing effort to normalize relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, push Israel into an invasion of Gaza which will be a CQB nightmare, hope for thousands of civilian causalities in Gaza to undermine support for Israel in the west and obviously others goals that we are unaware of at this time.

Israel is faced with a crap sandwich. They need to clear the terrorists out of Gaza but in doing so there will be significant civilian causalities which has the possibility of turning world opinion against them. Additionally their largest supporter is lead by a frail old fool and his handlers whose only concern is staying in power. Not a lot of great options for them but I am reminded of a quote which might apply to their strategy,

"This war differs from other wars, in this particular. We are not fighting armies but a hostile people, and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war."
William Tecumseh Sherman

80 years ago, Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force would have gone full Hamberg and Dresden on Gaza. It was a different time where victory was the only objective and you did not have iPhones to record the carnage.

 

[Red Leg]

It’s neither an option or a desired result right now in my opinion.

I have no doubt that there has already been a lot of collateral damage inflicted in Gaza. I haven't been in it, but have flown around it in a chopper and it is as densely packed a piece of earth as Manhattan. These two pieces of video are I think instructive. The initial one shows the Israeli Air Force destroying a complex of buildings within Gaza. It his hard to imagine only card carrying members of Hamas were present in the surrounding area regardless of the precision of the strike. The second shows a series of explosions with the latter throwing up narrow plumes of dust and debris which indicate deep penetrating ordnance no doubt aimed at underground bunkers and tunnels.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/173ufv8

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/173804z

It may well be that Hamas anticipated the people they kidnapped would serve as human shields against this very sort of retaliation. What I think they missed was the very fury Israel would feel over the deliberate murder of so many of its citizens. Israel will be subject to a great deal of negative press from the usual suspects as soon as someone other than Al Jazeera is reporting from inside Gaza. They are not complete fools, and I am sure anticipate it. As @NE 7x57 suggests, there is also a calculated messaging taking place with respect to the scale of current and pending retaliation.

The bad press will pass - the world has the attention span of a two-year-old. But a generation of Hamas supporters and those who support them will be dead. I am certain that messaging is directed at the region as a whole. The question that can never be answered is whether another generation radicalized Muslims also was just created.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Turn the entire place into a parking lot and be done with it…..

 

[Doug3006]

Arms were left in Afghanistan.

Arms have been shipped to Ukraine.

Arms will be shipped to Israel.

Arms supplies are low.

Strategic Petroleum Reserve is drained.

Sounds like a good time for Xi to go to Taiwan.

Leaving arms in Afghanistan was a complete cluster and embarrassment, but those arms aren’t the ones needed to fight China. Same goes for the arms we shipped to Ukraine. Those arms aren’t what we’d need to fight China either. Any arms we ship to Israel will be bought and paid for. We’ve been selling them arms for decades. Again, any arms we sell to Israel won’t be what’s needed in a war against China.

Any conflict with China will be a Naval war. You see, their entire economy depends on those shipping containers they load on boats being full of merchandise when they leave and food when they come back. Bottle them up for 60 days and China stops functioning. Their decision to invade Taiwan, if it ever comes, will only be made despite all of the reasons not to. Xi may well do it, but it’ll be the end of the PRC.

 

[Hunt anything]

One of the things that bugs the ever loving Sh&t out of me is the people out in support for those murderers! If someone would have gone out in support of the Russians Ukraine invasion they would have been pummeled by the US press, I haven’t heard barely a word about it.

 

[Ray B]

The question that can never be answered is whether another generation radicalized Muslims also was just created.

That is a significant aspect of the cult doctrine. With the cult leaders secure in Iran they are free to spread propaganda and indoctrinate each generation as it comes along.

 

[Red Leg]

Arms were left in Afghanistan.

Arms have been shipped to Ukraine.

Arms will be shipped to Israel.

Arms supplies are low.

Strategic Petroleum Reserve is drained.

Sounds like a good time for Xi to go to Taiwan.

I have seen this argument elsewhere, and it is worth a little attention.

I don't think anything left in Afghanistan figures in anyone's calculations with respect to US combat strength. Those arms also aren't being used arming Hamas. What those weapons and our departure may say about our commitment to use force is a different debatable issue. But no arms transferred to Afghanistan affect our posture.

Secondly, no arms relevant to what would be a war with China over Taiwan have been shipped to Ukraine or will be shipped to Israel. None. Our naval and air force assets are at full strength. No munitions have sent that would be relevant in such an engagement except some GPS JDAM kits of which we have very, very many. And though I can't imagine how or where we would fight a land battle with the Chinese, it is worth noting that not a single armored vehicle in our current active duty component has been sent anywhere.

The strategic petroleum reserve is indeed low, but unless China wants to open the strategic Pandora's Box of targeting within the homeland, I am not sure that would have any immediate effect on our engagement ability with Chinese air and naval forces.

What I think is dangerous is a miscalculation on China's part that our attention is so diverted that they could seize Taiwan in a coup de main before we could act decisively. Lord knows our strategic messaging is confused enough on the subject. Fortunately, I suspect Russia's problems in Ukraine will have given pause to any members of the Chinese leadership advocating such a roll of the dice.

And just saw @Doug3006 's post. I think that is correct.

 

[spike.t]

More than just about the festival massacre....

 

[steve white]

Agree with you. You obviously have good memory and knowledge.

The Canaanites also intermarried with the Jews. The point is, there is no race known as Canaanites today that would have a claim on Israel prior to the Jews.

Phoenicians were definitely the sea peoples of the eastern Mediterranean that settled Carthage.

The Phoenicians and Philistines were both sea peoples. Were the Phoenicians and/or the Philistines the "Sea Peoples" of antiquity that caused so much destruction through Egypt and the Mediterranean islands, there is pretty good evidence that they were or were at least part of a Minoan confederation of sea people. Over time new information becomes unearthed that lead to new and improved theories.

Forty years ago it was a general consensus that the Philistines were the southern tribes of the Phoenicians. At worst the Philistines were part of a confederation of sea people that included the Phoenicians and probably included a common language and heritage.

Who Were the Sea Peoples - DailyHistory.org

dailyhistory.org

Perhaps the two most interesting and possibly the most historically important of the Sea Peoples tribes were the Danuna and Peleset. Most modern scholars believe that both the Danuana and the Peleset contributed heavily to the historical books of the Old Testament and the ancient Kingdom of Israel, but they were on different sides of the struggle. The Danuna probably originated in the Anatolian region of Cilicia and then settled in the Levant and became, or integrated with, the biblical tribe of Dan once the invasions had ended. [20] The Pelest tribe is now almost unanimously associated with the biblical Philistines, with their ultimate origins still being somewhat of a mystery, although they are believed to have also been in Anatolia before arriving in the Levant.

Dan is inland from Tyre in this map. Tyre was a southern Phoenician city.

View attachment 562239

The Phoenicians (1500–300 B.C.) | Essay | The Metropolitan Museum of Art | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History

The Phoenicians represented a confederation of maritime traders rather than a defined country.

www.metmuseum.org

The ultimate collapse of Egyptian power in the region occurred about 1175 B.C. at the hands of the Sea Peoples, of whom the best known are the Philistines.

Philistine | Definition, People, Homeland, & Facts | Britannica

Philistine, one of a people of Aegean origin who settled on the southern coast of Palestine in the 12th century BCE, about the time of the arrival of the Israelites. According to biblical tradition, the Philistines came from Caphtor (possibly Crete, although there is no archaeological evidence...

www.britannica.com

Philistine, one of a people of Aegean origin who settled on the southern coast of Palestine ........as one of the Sea Peoples that invaded Egypt about 1190 BCE

View attachment 562217

Getting to Know the Philistines: The Facts and a Definition

You may have heard of the Philistines or Sea Peoples from the Bible. Get to know more about these ancient peoples with this historical overview.

www.learnreligions.com

Egyptian records from the 12th-13th centuries B.C. mention the Philistines in connection with the Sea Peoples. Due to their similar maritime history, their association with each other is strong. The Sea Peoples were a confederacy of naval raiders who were assumed to have moved in the eastern Mediterranean areas during the Bronze Age. It has been theorized that the Sea Peoples were originally Etruscan, Italian, Mycenaen or Minoan. As a group, they primarily focused their efforts on attacking Egypt during 1200-900 BCE.



Phoenician colonies. Map includes Philistia.

The Philistine Sea People were Mycenean greeks, according to their Mycenean 3b pottery and burial sarcophagi. They were turned aside from entering the Nile at the mouth by the Egyptians who later often used them as mercenaries. They founded city states (greek model, again) in what is now Gaza. Most were named after their Mycenean gods: the god Askeloni became the city of Askelon, etc.
The other peoples that would fain lay claim to the land of Israel, came in during Israeli slavery in Egypt, into a "no man's land" between the Hittites to the north and the Egyptians to the south. These included most of the "ites"....the Perrizites, Jebusites, (and termites and cellulites,) and others...lol. Lumped together, you could call them Canaanites, but they were all squatters essentially. When Abraham had previously arrived from Ur of the Chaldees, there just weren't many folks in the land at the time. But at the end of the day, the important thing is that GOD gave Jews the land through His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and their descendants FOREVER. That's why Jerusalem is a "heavy stone which injures all who try to move it."Jews themselves brought to pass prophesies that God would regather them to the land, and that is why they came. Guilt over the Holocaust was a boon to achieve said aim, but they were coming long before it. Since it is decreed from God, you can injure yourself or not, but His Will, will prevail.
One might be interested to note that the Palestinians fought in WW II--on the side of the Nazis!!! Russians still bitterly remember their participation in the battle to take Stalingrad, as they fought with machine guns in their hands while holding knife in their teeth. They have shown their true colors from day one. I have a picture somewhere of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem inspecting Palestinian troops in Nazi uniform.

 

[Red Leg]

What I would like to fully understand is Hamas's operational and strategic intent. I think I have a sense of Iran's, but I struggle with Hamas. Tactically their actions were pretty clear. Kill and capture a large number of Israeli citizens. They also obviously seemed to focus on civilians rather than Israeli military infrastructure.

Hamas also clearly understands these attacks alone would in no way undermine the Israeli State and that they would be extremely costly in the lives of their armed fighters. So what are the near term and long term objectives of what certainly looks like a suicidal operation?

I think perhaps what I did not fully understand is the threat to Hamas represented by regional normalization of relations with Israel. The Palestinian "cause," to some extent like the IRA, can only exist in a world where outside political and especially fiscal support enables it. The PLO and now Hamas and Hezbollah have always been extremely dependent upon the largess of its Arab neighbors - particularly the deep pockets of Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

Those pipelines of cash had already been drying up prior to the Abraham Accords and the more recent direct dialogue between Saudi Arabia and Israel. I can only assume the operational goal is to ignite such a retaliatory effort on the part of Israel, that Arab governments will be forced to suspend normalization efforts and return to supporting an eventual Palestine. Such a renewal of regional conflict would, in their minds be of sufficient strategic value as to outweigh the initial cost.

I believe the very brutality of the initial attacks will have derailed that strategy. We will see if the advantages of normalization outweigh the Israeli response.

 

[Hunt anything]

Somewhat like the Tet offensive in Viet Nam.

 

[Brent in Az]

Arms were left in Afghanistan.

Arms have been shipped to Ukraine.

Arms will be shipped to Israel.

Arms supplies are low.

Strategic Petroleum Reserve is drained.

Sounds like a good time for Xi to go to Taiwan.

Soon

 

[Brent in Az]

Joe Bidens puppet strings being pulled by the Democrat shadow government, and Blinken is an idiot