Politics

[Ridge Runner]

A little bit of Russian history: Lenin led the Bolsheviks who were one of the parties rebelling against the Tsar. He gained power and was only in charge for about 6 years when he died in 1924. The power struggle was primarily between Trotsky and Stalin, Stalin winning out and Trotsky being exiled and ultimately killed. It wasn't Marshall Law but it may have been Martial Law.

Thanks for refreshing me with the party names that I couldn't remember.

 

[Scott CWO]

The bullshit I'm referring to is your repeated assertions that any election fraud & tampering in this country is so rare and insignificant that it did not affect the outcome of 2020 election. The truth is we will never know for certain because of the surplus of the political cowards that we have in this country.

In regard to common ground for further discussion, you are probably correct that we certainly don't seem to share the same prospectives even though I still believe we share the same values and aspirations for this country's future... With that said, it's difficult for me to respect or value much of what you have said since declaring on more than one occasion that if Trump becomes the 2024 republican nominee, you will not vote in the next general election... I realize that I may upset your fan club here, but that position makes you a hypocrite, and part of the problem and not the solution toward fixing the surplus of crises facing this country...

We can cry about republican failures all we like and chalk up the recent disappointments in the last 2 elections to the dems having a better ground game, which is true to some extent... However, despite dems taking advantage of post-Covid voting strategies, the fact is that several key republican defeats were directly due to conservative voters just not showing up to vote.. Can't blame the dems for that sad fact...



LOL.. Whoa friend... Take it easy... On this particular subject, I actually have made "painstaking" investigations into alleged election fraud simply because I believe it is a very serious issue that truly predicates the foundation of this republic. It shocks and disappoints me that so many other so-called conservatives and patriots don't share the same concerns and healthy skepticism especially considering what we have all now learned about the facade of sanctity we all used to have in our federal institutions.

My assertions to you have nothing to do with me being right or wrong about anything...You were the one who dismissed the video in question as being "debunked"... I'm sorry if I offended you, but that assertion is in fact bullshit...

The only thing that was officially debunked in that video was the false claim that votes were smuggled into the counting room in suitcases. That was certainly not the case... However, that doesn't adequately address or explain why the votes were not counted as they arrived? The fact that the boxes sat in the middle of the floor for hours requiring workers to walk around them also contradicts the explanation offered by the precinct supervisor that they were inadvertently forgotten... Then, when they were indeed "remembered", why were they not counted then? Why then stored under a table and not counted until after the second call after 2am to resume the count?

I never claimed the video showed proof of fraud. All I said was common sense dictates that these explanations offered by the workers combined with video evidence does not adequately explain the events. Anybody with a lick of common sense should recognize something there didn't add up.. This, by the way, was pretty much the common theme throughout all of the allegations of tampering in all the swing states.

As a final thought, I realize that you are fond of playing the role of sidekick and echo chamber for Redleg, but don't be afraid to have an original thought of your own once in a while...

First off, I am a conservative and a patriot. Nothing so-called about it, thank you very much. If you think your love boy, Trump, is more conservative or patriotic than I am, you’re a fool. If you think your support for him makes you more conservative and more of a patriot than I am, you’re more of a fool.

As for some of my agreements with @Red Leg and not with you, I can assure you that I have plenty of my own thoughts and he and I have disagreed (as gentlemen) on several subjects on AH. I do likely agree on political issues more often with him than I agree with you. Not a big surprise! Sorry, but I’m not here to massage your ego and it seems to be big enough already. No wonder you love Trump!

Saying I don’t have thoughts of my own is a hell of a thing to say to someone you don’t know but doesn’t surprise me, considering the source. Most of my disagreements with you stem from your ideologue outlook instead of my more pragmatic approach to actually making something happen than just bitching all the time. I think your handle, BSO, must stand for BullShit Operator. Bullshit seems to be your favorite word, as well.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Come on guys! Since this is a hunting site the way to settle this is to set up a target at 100 yards and see who tops out. The ballistics of bullshit!

 

[Pheroze]

And now Prigozhin is nicely and quietly heading to Belarus? Another trusted advisor, glad Lukashenko got involved, that puts to bed any "Machiavellian" thoughts I was having..... things that make you go hmmmmmm.

Now Putin can open the front from Belarus.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Wagner shot down several attack helicopters and at least one electronic recon aircraft. And Russian attack helicopters took out several Wagner platforms. I have seen no estimates on ground losses, though most Russian military units seemed most interested in getting out of the way. If this was a show, it was fairly deadly and expensive one.

Wouldn't be the first time Putin killed his own people to whip up public support for his private wars. Worked very well during the Georgian rebellion when Georgian "terrorists" were supposedly blowing up Moscow apartment buildings ... with Russian military explosives. The recent supposed Ukranian drone attacks on Moscow apparently didn't generate the anticipated reaction. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if this Wagner thug was doing the same thing. Or maybe the infighting is just a feint before the counterattack on Ukraine. Classic battlefield tactics. I agree, the whole thing stinks worse than yesterday's unflushed breakfast.

 

[Red Leg]

Wouldn't be the first time Putin killed his own people to whip up public support for his private wars. Worked very well during the Georgian rebellion when Georgian "terrorists" were supposedly blowing up Moscow apartment buildings ... with Russian military explosives. The recent supposed Ukranian drone attacks on Moscow apparently didn't generate the anticipated reaction. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if this Wagner thug was doing the same thing. Or maybe the infighting is just a feint before the counterattack on Ukraine. Classic battlefield tactics. I agree, the whole thing stinks worse than yesterday's unflushed breakfast.

Classic battlefield tactics? Not sure I follow that. Perhaps you can provide some examples where feigned disarray set the stage for a major offensive. False flag events have been used which is why Russian control of Ukrainian nuclear power facilities is so worrisome.

Secondly, I do not believe Russia has much remaining to generate a new offensive or axis of advance if they wanted to do so. They have little in the way of combat units that aren't already deployed.

I think it far more likely that Putin cut a deal because Russian those reserves were already committed. They had very little between the Wagner column and Moscow - mainly FSB troops (essentially SWAT teams). After all, Wagner forces traveled 150 miles down open highways against minimal opposition before halting themselves.

I suspect it is more likely Putin has given something - if so, we'll know in a few days or weeks. I would not be surprised if Sergie Shoigu takes a sabbatical.

I also disagree with the notion that Putin is bombing and droning himself. Like the loss of Rostov to Wagner these things could I suppose rally the troops, but I think it far more likely it makes him look weak and unable to protect the motherland.

 

[Red Leg]

Now Putin can open the front from Belarus.

Not with the remnants of Wagner. I would guess he had a core force remaining of around 15-20K troops that set off to Moscow following the butchery in Bakhmut. It appears most of those have returned to their assembly areas in the Donbas. I assume he has a palace guard with him in exile, but nothing that would pose a threat to Ukraine.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[Pheroze]

Not with the remnants of Wagner. I would guess he had a core force remaining of around 15-20K troops that set off to Moscow following the butchery in Bakhmut. It appears most of those have returned to their assembly areas in the Donbas. I assume he has a palace guard with him in exile, but nothing that would pose a threat to Ukraine.

Thank you for the insight on that. Interesting days for sure.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Classic battlefield tactics? Not sure I follow that. Perhaps you can provide some examples where feigned disarray set the stage for a major offensive. False flag events have been used which is why Russian control of Ukrainian nuclear power facilities is so worrisome.

Secondly, I do not believe Russia has much remaining to generate a new offensive or axis of advance if they wanted to do so. They have little in the way of combat units that aren't already deployed.

I think it far more likely that Putin cut a deal because Russian those reserves were already committed. They had very little between the Wagner column and Moscow - mainly FSB troops (essentially SWAT teams). After all, Wagner forces traveled 150 miles down open highways against minimal opposition before halting themselves.

I suspect it is more likely Putin has given something - if so, we'll know in a few days or weeks. I would not be surprised if Sergie Shoigu takes a sabbatical.

I also disagree with the notion that Putin is bombing and droning himself. Like the loss of Rostov to Wagner these things could I suppose rally the troops, but I think it far more likely it makes him look weak and unable to protect the motherland.

A feint is a feint. Feigned disarray might be innovative ... but it might work. Ukraine should be careful about overextending themselves.

The Georgian fake stab in the back worked well enough (Putin blowing up Moscow apartment buildings and blaming it on terrorists). Fake drone attacks was an attempt at a repeat performance. I don't think many were fooled. Ukraine was always warned support from the West depended on no offense on Russian soil.

 

[bowjijohn]

It sure is a murky picture

However Putin’s absence from public view, plus the suspicion that he ran away to his safe house might suggest all is not well in Putin land

I don’t think this internal drama has reached the final act

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

In the meantime Ukraine’s counter attack looks to be quite tepid, apparently because of Russia’s air dominance.

 

[Red Leg]

I need to refresh my history, but isn't this the same strategy Stalin and his partner, (name slips my mind), did to oust their predecessor (again his name slips my mind), during WWII, in which "they" took control of Russia, thus turning Russia into a communist state?

The Biggest Questions become:

Does Wagner see himself as a communist libertarian, or as a Czar?

Will the Russian people accept him, tolerate him, or rise up against him?

Will Wagner impose "Marshall Law", and allow the Russian People to elect a government: of choice: Somewhat Democratic, Parliamentary, Totalitarian, or another
Dictatorship?

How will the remaining "Free World" react to Russia's fall from communism, to a more "capitalistic / Independent" country?

What or How will China's and other Communist countries under Russia's control respond to Wagner's, and the rest of the "Free World" actions should Russia no longer become a communist country?

Could the Wagner Group be metaphorically "writing a play book"; for any one of the more than dozen "anti (US) government" groups to use: ie Blackwater, various militia groups, etc., in the apprehension, prosecution, imprisoning, the corrupt government officials in the US Government?

So many questions, so many variables, with so many no definitive nor plausible answers to preplan for.

A couple of data points.

Stalin assumed power as General Secretary in 1924 and held power until his death in 1953. World War II lasted from September 1939 until August of 1945. The Soviet Union allied itself with Great Britain and eventually the US following the German invasion in June of 1941. The Bolshevik revolution occurred in the fall of 1917. This followed the collapse and mutiny of much of the Tsarist army and deposing of the Tsar in February of 1917. This was followed by the subsequent collapse of the initial post Tsarist regime and victory for the Marxists. Lenin ruled until 1923 and was followed by Stalin.

Wagner is an organization not a person.

The Russian Federation has neither a communist government nor a communist economic system.

China is not under Russia's control - far from it. Russia is an economic midget compared to China. For instance, the Chinese GDP is 13.6 trillion USD while Russia's is just 1.7 trillion USD. Russia is very much the junior partner in their strategic relationship. More so after the military losses and economic damage Russia has suffered since invading Ukraine.

A playbook for some mercenary group in the US? We have nothing like Wagner. Blackwater no longer exists, but it was never anti-US Government. Virtually all its contracts were supporting the US military.

 

[Red Leg]

A feint is a feint. Feigned disarray might be innovative ... but it might work. Ukraine should be careful about overextending themselves.

The Georgian fake stab in the back worked well enough (Putin blowing up Moscow apartment buildings and blaming it on terrorists). Fake drone attacks was an attempt at a repeat performance. I don't think many were fooled. Ukraine was always warned support from the West depended on no offense on Russian soil.

We'll agree to disagree. Dictators can not afford to appear weak or ineffectual.

Ukraine has clearly carried out numerous attacks on Russian soil - even excluding Crimea which has been heavily targeted. What Ukraine has not done is use any NATO provided weapons for these attacks, instead relying upon domestically acquired drones, SOF, and Russian partisans.

 

[bowjijohn]

If Putin did run away then ‘Flight of the Valkyries’ takes on a whole new meaning

Yup!

I’ll get my coat

 

[R.M.C.]

Not sure if I should put this in the Politics thread or here lol

 

[sgt_zim]

 

[BSO Dave]

I think your handle, BSO, must stand for BullShit Operator. Bullshit seems to be your favorite word, as well.

LOL...! Not bad.. That's pretty funny right there..! See you are actually capable of having an original thought...

BSO actually stands for Broward Sheriff's Office. I picked up the nickname in the police academy where we had two Daves in the class. Since I was the one already hired with Broward Sheriff's Office, the BSO stuck... And, while I have been known to bullshit with the best on occasion, there has been no need where you are concerned... I'm not the one on here making false assertions about what has or hasn't supposedly been "debunked" and then tosses out a red herring when someone calls you out on it... Bullshit is not my favorite word, but it just seems to be the most appropriate here so often in some of these discussions...

Sorry to be blunt, but some of the perspectives that have been offered here by you and others as pragmatic, I call naive and delusional... You all still believe that the way forward is political compromise and more capitulation. I believe that capitulation (out of fear) is what got us into this mess in the first place...

And, where do you get this completely ridiculous notion that I am some diehard Trump lover? Either you have a comprehension problem, or you have me confused here with somebody else. Please remind us all where I have asserted this unwavering devotion to Trump? It's true that I credit him for some great accomplishments that some here seem to have forgotten very quickly. However, I have been as critical as anyone with his faults and missteps... If I were not an Independent, I would absolutely vote for DeSantis in the primary. All I have said about Trump here lately is that if he becomes the nominee, we have to hold our noses and vote for him.. So, by your standard, that makes someone a Trump lover? I think it makes them a patriot because the alternative is unthinkable...! Yet, not voting for him absolutely makes them a hypocrite.

BTW, if we are going to play the acronym game maybe your CWO should stand for Crybaby With Opinions..?

 

[Scott CWO]

Y

LOL...! Not bad.. That's pretty funny right there..! See you are actually capable of having an original thought...

BSO actually stands for Broward Sheriff's Office. I picked up the nickname in the police academy where we had two Daves in the class. Since I was the one already hired with Broward Sheriff's Office, the BSO stuck... And, while I have been known to bullshit with the best on occasion, there has been no need where you are concerned... I'm not the one on here making false assertions about what has or hasn't supposedly been "debunked" and then tosses out a red herring when someone calls you out on it... Bullshit is not my favorite word, but it just seems to be the most appropriate here so often in some of these discussions...

Sorry to be blunt, but some of the perspectives that have been offered here by you and others as pragmatic, I call naive and delusional... You all still believe that the way forward is political compromise and more capitulation. I believe that capitulation (out of fear) is what got us into this mess in the first place...

And, where do you get this completely ridiculous notion that I am some diehard Trump lover? Either you have a comprehension problem, or you have me confused here with somebody else. Please remind us all where I have asserted this unwavering devotion to Trump? It's true that I credit him for some great accomplishments that some here seem to have forgotten very quickly. However, I have been as critical as anyone with his faults and missteps... If I were not an Independent, I would absolutely vote for DeSantis in the primary. All I have said about Trump here lately is that if he becomes the nominee, we have to hold our noses and vote for him.. So, by your standard, that makes someone a Trump lover? I think it makes them a patriot because the alternative is unthinkable...! Yet, not voting for him absolutely makes them a hypocrite.

BTW, if we are going to play the acronym game maybe your CWO should stand for Crybaby With Opinions..?

Yeah, I already knew you were a know-it-all cop suspicious of everything. There are cops that aren’t that way but seems you are. Doesn’t always work outside of your club.

 

[Red Leg]

In the meantime Ukraine’s counter attack looks to be quite tepid, apparently because of Russia’s air dominance.

I think they are in a bit of a fix. I obviously do not know, but the chatter on the various sites would leave one to believe that they have used their new armor to maximize the number of modernized brigades. If so, then they likely have few if any reserve platforms to replace destroyed or heavily damaged equipment. Those platforms will be essential if they are to eventually exploit a true breakthrough. They already had a huge logistics challenge due to the large number of separate logistics chains necessary to maintain, British, German, French, US, former Warsaw Pact, and even Swedish armored vehicles.

So after the initial 48-72 hours, it looks like they changed their tactical approach rather dramatically. I would call what they are doing now infiltration tactics. They now seem to be using their light infantry, supported by drone-dropped munitions and mortars rather than armor, to systematically clear Russian defensive positions. Artillery, particularly precision munitions, seem to be focused on Russia's artillery and battlefield munition stores.

This has historical precedence. During WWI, major attacks were typically preceded by hours, if not days, of preparatory artillery fire. Over time, both sides learned to avoid casualties by using deep dugouts, from which the infantry would emerge to engage the enemy attack when the artillery fire lifted. During the spring offensive of 1918 when Imperial Germany almost won the war they employed infiltration tactics. Infantry, without use of massive arty fires simply crept close to the ailed trenches (typically at night) and then stormed them at first light without warning - hence the name "storm troopers."

If, and it is a meaningful if, the Ukrainian infantry can create a gap in the main defensive belt (which they have yet to reach), then I would expect to see their mechanized formations to pour through. It will take time.

Below is an example of a precision strike against Russian artillery - in this case Grad Launchers caught in a hide position and hit with Excalibur 155 GPS guided rounds.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/14hyd2g

And an artillery field support location for ammunition

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/14iinh1