Politics

[Ray B]

I recall seeing Joe bidet claiming that the US goal with the Ukraine war was for regime change in Russia. I wonder what he and his bunch of incompetents think of these events. Maybe the Warlords attacking Moscow will send emissaries to DC seeking aid.

 

[Wathe208]

Am I the only one wondering if there is something else at play here? A lot of things making me scratch my head, one of which is that Prigozhin marches into Rostov-on-Don, basically unobstructed, on his way to Moscow? And all this dirty laundry so publicized, almost as if by design. Are Putin and Prigozhin really at odds? I can't decide if I'm watching a match of checkers or chess.

 

[Brent in Az]

Maybe Putin and the oligarchs made the rebel leader an offer he couldn't refuse?

Propaganda & misdirection, seems to be the new norm these days.

 

[cash_tx]

Am I the only one wondering if there is something else at play here? A lot of things making me scratch my head, one of which is that Prigozhin marches into Rostov-on-Don, basically unobstructed, on his way to Moscow? And all this dirty laundry so publicized, almost as if by design. Are Putin and Prigozhin really at odds? I can't decide if I'm watching a match of checkers or chess.

Same here. Anytime the news tells me to look at what's happening in the right hand, I'm always suspicious of what the left hand is doing.

 

[bowjijohn]

“The Grand Old Duke of York” ??

Or something a bit more Machiavellian?

 

[Red Leg]

Wagner shot down several attack helicopters and at least one electronic recon aircraft. And Russian attack helicopters took out several Wagner platforms. I have seen no estimates on ground losses, though most Russian military units seemed most interested in getting out of the way. If this was a show, it was fairly deadly and expensive one.

 

[bowjijohn]

If he just stood down, how can he imagine that he’ll live till Christmas?

 

[Red Leg]

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/14hnvwv

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/14i0ngl

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/14hx2h5

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/14hqzlv

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/14hppwc

 

[Ray B]

If he just stood down, how can he imagine that he’ll live till Christmas?

I'm guessing that it's the same deal for Putin.

 

[jpr9954]

Biden welcomes Indian Prime Minister Modi to the White House.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Perhaps a deal was struck before things got out of hand? I would think further escalation would possibly be the death knell for the Russian effort in the Ukraine and the probable decimation of the Wagner group. If the armed forces stuck with Putin that is.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

If he just stood down, how can he imagine that he’ll live till Christmas?

It is something to think about. If a deal was struck it makes Putin look weak IMO. He can’t exactly tolerate this type of stuff for obvious reasons. Mighty risky stuff on the part of the Wagner group. If everything is as it seems..

 

[Wathe208]

And now Prigozhin is nicely and quietly heading to Belarus? Another trusted advisor, glad Lukashenko got involved, that puts to bed any "Machiavellian" thoughts I was having..... things that make you go hmmmmmm.

 

[Red Leg]

I am not sure if Prigozhin can read, but awareness of a passage from Machiavelli's "The Prince" would have been useful to him.

"men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot; therefore the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge."

Or in modern terms of a coup - never strike to wound - strike to kill.

 

[Doug3006]

"if you start to take Vienna, take Vienna." Napoleon.

 

[Doug3006]

Prigozhin must know he’s a dead man walking. Putin has murdered many for far less serious transgressions. If he thinks this deal will save him, he’s not very astute. His only hope is regime change.

 

[Jfet]

Looks like Mopar is not going to follow through with the advertising deal with the Wagner Group. Having them drive around with a bunch of Jeep Rubicons would be as dumb as what Bud Light did.
Just in case

 

[Ridge Runner]

It does seem far-fetched that Wagner Group would actually take Moscow, but on the remote chance that they did, would this be the first time a private corporation staged a successful coup in a sovereign nation?

I need to refresh my history, but isn't this the same strategy Stalin and his partner, (name slips my mind), did to oust their predecessor (again his name slips my mind), during WWII, in which "they" took control of Russia, thus turning Russia into a communist state?

The Biggest Questions become:

Does Wagner see himself as a communist libertarian, or as a Czar?

Will the Russian people accept him, tolerate him, or rise up against him?

Will Wagner impose "Marshall Law", and allow the Russian People to elect a government: of choice: Somewhat Democratic, Parliamentary, Totalitarian, or another
Dictatorship?

How will the remaining "Free World" react to Russia's fall from communism, to a more "capitalistic / Independent" country?

What or How will China's and other Communist countries under Russia's control respond to Wagner's, and the rest of the "Free World" actions should Russia no longer become a communist country?

Could the Wagner Group be metaphorically "writing a play book"; for any one of the more than dozen "anti (US) government" groups to use: ie Blackwater, various militia groups, etc., in the apprehension, prosecution, imprisoning, the corrupt government officials in the US Government?

So many questions, so many variables, with so many no definitive nor plausible answers to preplan for.

 

[Ridge Runner]

If it wasnt for the fact that Putin is crazy enough to use nukes, it would be a good time for European countries to join forces, and attack Russia's weakness.

You assumption is most likely correct. This would most likely result in Putin to claim "Just Cause" to initiate a worldwide nuclear attack.

 

[Ray B]

A little bit of Russian history: Lenin led the Bolsheviks who were one of the parties rebelling against the Tsar. He gained power and was only in charge for about 6 years when he died in 1924. The power struggle was primarily between Trotsky and Stalin, Stalin winning out and Trotsky being exiled and ultimately killed. It wasn't Marshall Law but it may have been Martial Law.