Plains Game Ammo

[375Fox]

It seems the Hornady 200 grain ELDX loaded by my outfitter to be a wide "coverall" bullet and effective on game from Springbuck up to Sable/Cape Kudu, from around 100 yards to over 400 yards. I've used this bullet on 50 plus animals in three trips to the Eastern Cape. I wonder what issues an outfitter would have experienced with the ELDX. 100 yards and less, rarely saw a bullet exit though.

No exits under 100 yards is very concerning. Unless you found the bullet on skin on opposite side it means the bullet fragmented at 300 win velocity and penetration is questionable on larger PG species. I believe energy really assists in putting game down but you need to choose a bullet that consistently performs and achieves full penetration through the vitals.

 

[375Fox]

@WASHED-UP-VET i didn’t see it written anywhere on thread and not sure if you are aware, but the vitals on African game are further forward than North American game. The correct shot placement is on the shoulder not behind. This is reason for tougher bonded bullets or monolithic bullets like TTSX. The bullet has to withstand a lot more heavy bone to reach the vitals than a shot behind the shoulder.

 

[Ryan]

While I have had great success with the 168 grain TTSX in my 30-06 for plains game, I wouldn't hesitate to use the 180 grain Scirocco 2 if it was more accurate out of my 30-06 or 300 WM. They're bonded and have a great reputation for weight retention. Heck, my eland was taken with a rental 300 WM using Jacketed Soft Point (cup and core) 180 grain PMP factory ammo. One shot put it to the ground, a second anchored it. I'm sure the Scirocco would work even better, so use it with confidence.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

I have used Barnes 180 TTSX in my 300 win on two safaris with good results on bigger game like Kudu and Blue wildebeest. This year I switched to 200gr Aframe factory Swift ammo. It was awesome with one shot kills on 5 blue wildebeest , zebra and other culls. I will continue with the Aframes for future safaris.

 

[Ryan]

And now that I think about it. Before dropping down to the 150 grain, try 165 grain Vor-TX ammo in your 300 WM. The 168 grain is a go-to for plains game in 30-06. So the 165 in the 300 WM ought to deliver just as well. And I agree with someone earlier, clean the heck out of the barrel before going to TTSX bullets if you've been testing those and other copper and lead bullets. It makes a difference.

 

[Datchew]

If you're going to try ttsx in 165, I recommend the 168's.
Slightly more bc

My 300 wm spurs them at a bit over 2900 and they group well and penetration is excellent

 

[Ryan]

If you're going to try ttsx in 165, I recommend the 168's.
Slightly more bc

My 300 wm spurs them at a bit over 2900 and they group well and penetration is excellent

Interesting, but Barnes actually states on their website the 165's ogive is meant for the 300 WM and the 168 is more for the 308 and 30-06. I suggest the 165 more for preliminary testing since they have it in boxes ammo. Does it shoot well? If so, then handload and fine tune between it and the 168. The BC to me isn't worth losing sleep over at PG hunting ranges.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@WASHED-UP-VET i didn’t see it written anywhere on thread and not sure if you are aware, but the vitals on African game are further forward than North American game. The correct shot placement is on the shoulder not behind. This is reason for tougher bonded bullets or monolithic bullets like TTSX. The bullet has to withstand a lot more heavy bone to reach the vitals than a shot behind the shoulder.

I'm sure this has been debated before but I really don't see a significant difference in vitals location of North American big game vs African plains game. I have gutted more than a hundred of the former and closely observed trackers dressing out more than thirty of the latter. Searching the web I see scores of shot placement diagrams for both elk and kudu. Seems the center of target for both is as often as not just behind the shoulder. I have shot everything from Cape buffalo bull to springbuck just behind the shoulder and they all seem to transpire as efficiently as elk, moose, and deer shot the same way.

 

[Datchew]

Interesting, but Barnes actually states on their website the 165's ogive is meant for the 300 WM and the 168 is more for the 308 and 30-06. I suggest the 165 more for preliminary testing since they have it in boxes ammo. Does it shoot well? If so, then handload and fine tune between it and the 168. The BC to me isn't worth losing sleep over at PG hunting ranges.

I setup my load for up to 600m
So I'll take all the bc carry I can get.

Your point on factory ammo is very important for people that don't handload. Great starting point

 

[375Fox]

I'm sure this has been debated before but I really don't see a significant difference in vitals location of North American big game vs African plains game. I have gutted more than a hundred of the former and closely observed trackers dressing out more than thirty of the latter. Searching the web I see scores of shot placement diagrams for both elk and kudu. Seems the center of target for both is as often as not just behind the shoulder. I have shot everything from Cape buffalo bull to springbuck just behind the shoulder and they all seem to transpire as efficiently as elk, moose, and deer shot the same way.

You can reference Kevin Robertson’s perfect shot. That is the standard and the individual who has done the research that can’t be questioned. If you aim behind the shoulder you are aiming for the back of the lungs and has more room for error. The correct shot placement on African game is on the shoulder because vitals are further forward. It is a fact.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

My 700 300WM shoots the TTSX to similar groups as yours. It however loves the Federal Terminal Ascent bullets. I shoot them in my .308 Win, .280AI, 7PRC, and 300WM. All with absolutely amazing results.

I took the .308 shooting the Terminal Ascents to RSA and Zim last year, and had great success on PG out to 400+ yards.

 

[Ryan]

You can reference Kevin Robertson’s perfect shot. That is the standard and the individual who has done the research that can’t be questioned. If you aim behind the shoulder you are aiming for the back of the lungs and has more room for error. The correct shot placement on African game is on the shoulder because vitals are further forward. It is a fact.

The OP is asking about ammo.

Gents, whadya say we don't take this on a tangent about shot placement. The best answer there is African animals have a more compact vital area than North American animals, with less margin for error. For most species regardless of continent the heart is still in the same approximate spot. Aim just above it for best results. This website has a very great Shot Placement Gallery to assist there. Please review it prior to heading to the field.

 

[375Fox]

The OP is asking about ammo.

Gents, whadya say we don't take this on a tangent about shot placement. The best answer there is African animals have a more compact vital area than North American animals, with less margin for error. For most species regardless of continent the heart is still in the same approximate spot. Aim just above it for best results. This website has a very great Shot Placement Gallery to assist there. Please review it prior to heading to the field.

It’s relevant because a bullet that works well on elk might not be as effective on a kudu in Africa because the shot placement is different. A new hunter to Africa doesn’t always know that.

 

[WASHED-UP-VET]

Gentlemen,
I have enjoyed reading all of these posts and plan to reference this in detail. My wife is buying me The Perfect Shot book for a gift and I will study it. I am greatly impressed with all of the detailed information and how eager everybody is to help me. Thank you all

 

[WASHED-UP-VET]

A few thoughts on the subject:

1. I agree that you have to listen to your PH. They have an expertise and experience.
2. But also ACCURACY (read bullet placement) kills. Every experienced hunter knows that. Of course on the dangerous game a well constructed bullet is a must.
3. On my moose hunt PH insisted on Interlock bullets. I was taking my 300PRC rifle on that hunt. I obliged and loaded couple of boxes with interlock, BUT I also brought a box with ELD-X. Both were 220 grains bullets.

View attachment 636869
4. At longer distances high BC bullet has distinct advantages. ELD-X is awesome “flyer”. See comparison below.

View attachment 636870

And I was very glad that I had ELD-X with me. Moose was 403 yards away. I shot twice using ELD-X. Bullets hit the same spot, but at different angles. Both double lung shots. I’m convinced that Interlock bullets would have done much worse at this distance.

View attachment 636873

This is a recovered bullet from the moose. It ended up on the opposite side under skin. It retained 130 grains out of 220.
View attachment 636871

My advice: have a box of bullets that you can shoot accurately. Just in a case. But also bring ammo that is favorite with your PH.

I like your style. I very well may take the Barnes 180 TTSX and some Swift Scirocco 180s and load them equally so I have options. Of course I will do some testing to see how they possibly impact differently at 100 yards for future reference.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You can reference Kevin Robertson’s perfect shot. That is the standard and the individual who has done the research that can’t be questioned. If you aim behind the shoulder you are aiming for the back of the lungs and has more room for error. The correct shot placement on African game is on the shoulder because vitals are further forward. It is a fact.

Thread 'HUNTING Kudu' https://www.africahunting.com/threads/hunting-kudu.226/

Seems I'm not the only one advocating a broadside shot just behind the shoulder. I would hesitate to recommend a neck shot. I have had some bad luck with neck shots, especially large game. Also, it tends to make a mess of capes. Placing the shot high on the shoulder is intended to take out CNS and knock the animal over. However, vertebrate are very thick in that area. Shot placement there needs to be very precise to sever the spinal cord. Lungs are the largest vital target and provide the best probability for fatal damage. Shot placed just behind the shoulder hits the lungs.

Of course presentation makes a big difference. An animal quartering slightly towards me would be best shot on the point of shoulder. An animal quartering slightly away definitely should be shot behind the shoulder. An animal quartering well away should probably not be shot at all, but if necessary (wounded), aim for middle of ribs and hope for the best.

 

[375Fox]

Thread 'HUNTING Kudu' https://www.africahunting.com/threads/hunting-kudu.226/

Seems I'm not the only one advocating a broadside shot just behind the shoulder. I would hesitate to recommend a neck shot. I have had some bad luck with neck shots, especially large game. Also, it tends to make a mess of capes. Placing the shot high on the shoulder is intended to take out CNS and knock the animal over. However, vertebrate are very thick in that area. Shot placement there needs to be very precise to sever the spinal cord. Lungs are the largest vital target and provide the best probability for fatal damage. Shot placed just behind the shoulder hits the lungs.

Of course presentation makes a big difference. An animal quartering slightly towards me would be best shot on the point of shoulder. An animal quartering slightly away definitely should be shot behind the shoulder. An animal quartering well away should probably not be shot at all, but if necessary (wounded), aim for middle of ribs and hope for the best.

It seems you found a shot placement diagram with a kudu taking a step forward to support your opinion. There are other shot placement threads to reference. Slightly behind the shoulder will kill any African game in BACK of lungs but the vitals are further forward and don’t extend as far back as North American game. Correct shot placement is on shoulder for most African game. Believe what you’d like but reading the perfect shot would be a benefit to you.

Thread 'HUNTING Eland'

Dec 17, 2008

Hunting Eland Shot Placement

Post your questions, comments or pictures relating to hunting shot placement.

Hunting Eland

Hunting Eland

• AfricaHunting.com
• Replies: 58
• Forum: Shot placement

• 

 

[Sabre]

Yes I have been reading and it seems some rifle barrels "dont like" the monometal bullets and some rifles shoot them just fine. I want to believe a good bonded bullet in the right place will do the job.

I have had mixed results with accuracy in different rifles with the Barnes. The guns that it worked in, it was incredible accuracy wise and was also devastating on game.

To my 2" at 100 yards from a bench wouldn't be acceptable for taking plains game because the accuracy will be worse in the field off sticks and when excited.

I also agree that the ELD-X is, in my opinion, poor performance on game. I have had impressive results in some guns as far as accuracy is concerned, but it tends to come apart more than I prefer on game.

I have had great success with bonded bullets in every gun I have tried so far. Some guns with incredible accuracy, and some with pretty good. I have found them to be the best hunting solution for me.

 

[Ryan]

It seems you found a shot placement diagram with a kudu taking a step forward to support your opinion. There are other shot placement threads to reference. Slightly behind the shoulder will kill any African game in BACK of lungs but the vitals are further forward and don’t extend as far back as North American game. Correct shot placement is on shoulder for most African game. Believe what you’d like but reading the perfect shot would be a benefit to you.

Thread 'HUNTING Eland'

Dec 17, 2008

Hunting Eland Shot Placement

Post your questions, comments or pictures relating to hunting shot placement.

Hunting Eland

Hunting Eland

• AfricaHunting.com
• Replies: 58
• Forum: Shot placement

• 

The shot is the same and so is the bullet to me. The heart is straight up the leg and just above the joint in both the eland you pictured and an elk or most any other game animal. Thus the best shot is the same in my book. Straight up the leg 1/3 up from the bottom is a good rule of thumb to put a bullet right above the heart whether it's in Africa or NA. But, as we have both pointed out, NA game has more lungs behind the leg so more margin of error. And I'd recommend the same bullet for either animal

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The shot is the same and so is the bullet to me. The heart is straight up the leg and just above the joint in both the eland you pictured and an elk or most any other game animal. Thus the best shot is the same in my book. Straight up the leg 1/3 up from the bottom is a good rule of thumb to put a bullet right above the heart whether it's in Africa or NA. But, as we have both pointed out, NA game has more lungs behind the leg so more margin of error. And I'd recommend the same bullet for either animal
View attachment 636981

I'm not sure why African antelope would have smaller lungs than North American big game. Both in their evolved environment would require running and jumping for survival. One no less than the other. Possibly more predation in Africa. Perhaps more altitude variation in North America?

I have read Doc Tari's book. Looking at the shot placement diagrams I did not see a  significant difference between vitals of African vs North American game species. Both require the same multichambered stomach, same liver and other organs. Why would the lungs and heart be different? From the side they both appear to be built about the same (compare elk image above to the kudu link I posted). I have shot African antelope and Cape buffalo right behind the shoulder and killed them just as effectively as the scores of North American big game with similar shot placement. The big difference between shooting them in the shoulder vs just behind the shoulder is little to no meat is wasted vs blowing up one or maybe both front shoulders. As we all know, hitting big bones with bullets = excessive bloodshot = feeding the landfill seagulls.

For those who insist on taking out a shoulder (unnecessarily) or two, a bullet with lots of penetration and less frangible might be the ticket. For those who desire less meat damage and choose to shoot behind the shoulder, that sort of bullet is less important. Ribs don't blow up bullets.