Obsession with tactical rifles & equipment

[rdog]

I am NOT trying to suggest that you should ever give up your MSRs .The point i am trying to make is the anti gun media use the Tactical equipment look as a tool for more gun control,
it not a good look to act as that you have just come out of a firefight in Afghanistan at the local rifle range .'' look more right wing extremists'' is what we are branded as. If you want to hunt with your ARs i do not care just do not dress the part at the range. i have a Remington 700 M40 copy in 308win with a Leupold LRP scope but i do not wear a steel helmet, flack jacket &webbing when i shoot it! they properly would not fit me now anyway

 

[sgt_zim]

EU = communists
New Zealand = communists
UK = communists
Canada = communists
USA = under serious threat of communists.

Although not frequently mentioned, but could be concluded based on gun laws;
Japan = communists
India = communists

etc... the list can continue.

None of those countries have ruling communist party in power, as a matter of fact.

I think that we need to define the word "communist".

Pretty sure he was talking about the marxists in the United States. As to the rest, I'd simply assert they're becoming tyrannies. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what other label might be slapped on a tyrant, being a tyrant is sufficient in and of itself.

European monarchies were tyrannies, just the same as the old USSR.

Ceding power to the government is almost always a terrible idea, because history demonstrates the only way the people will get them back is through bloodshed.

As distasteful as many here find MSRs, the alternative to wannabe soldiers playing around with their AR15s and dressing up in cammies and LBE and so forth is much, much worse.

Perspective is always helpful. With the current murder rate in the united states, it would take ~8500-10,000 years to reach the same death count achieved by 3 tyrannical governments between 1920 and 1970. With the current murder rate in the US where the murderer uses an MSR, it would take about 200,000 years. No, that's not a type-o. Two hundred thousand years.

Will all, or any, of the countries you cited turn in to such tyrannies? Probably not, but that's largely irrelevant. The people being armed with such weapons is the best insurance against any government becoming tyrannical.

 

[Jfet]

What type of guy are you?

 

[RTG]

The "blued steel & walnut" rifle are as much a "military style weapon" as the Stoner AR-10/15 family.

Exactly. America has been on war footing for a whole generation with hundreds of thousands of soldiers trained on modern 'black rifles'. It would be silly to expect that experience and knowledge to not be reflected in their arms, gear and equipment. Such choices, training, tactics, gear will also influence choices made by their friends, family, children.

Change is always certain. Not everyone will hunt with a double gun, short shorts and a funny hat (I have worn funny hats but have also gone ATAS hunting critters (All Tactical And Sh!+).

As far as public perception of ignorant trolls on the left, F them. Don't ever make a single decision trying to appease that mob. Be yourself and make the best choices for you. It's your only life to live. Enjoy it to the fullest.

 

[mark-hunter]

Personally I dont find MSR "distasteful". (I like your style @sgt_zim)
Moreover, I just might buy one. My plan is to try few local competitions, and if I am happy will go fo it.

But, I understand the issues and public pressure caused by irresponsible gun owners (or criminals) either by unethical public posts on you tube, unsafe handling of firearm on range or during hunt, accidents in hunting, or by criminal acts, when given space in media and daily debates. And media just loves the bad press. it sells well.

The numbers and the facts, is hard to digest by (ignorant) general public, who are not gun owners, and in democracy their opinion counts. (thats fact, btw) They make their opinion, in an instant, just based on TV screen breaking news report. The influence of mass media, would be unwise to ignore. It exists. its the basis of propaganda.

Then, there is a paradox.
Legal gun owners as insurance of tyrannies - is a frequent qoute and generally accepted as fact by those who like the idea.
but is it really so?
The paradox is the fact, that legal gun owner will respect the law, and surrender his firearm once it becomes illegal and banned. This happened in many countries. (UK ban on pistols for example)

So the only possible way, before its too late after the ban is:
Education of general public, on sporting legal use of such rifles, and ethical and safe behavior by responsible gun owners, contacting your represenatatives. Make positive PR.
Change the public perception. thats how democracy works.
in the same time, make it more popular, bring family to shooting range, make your friend join the sport shooting club, let him start to compete for medals, etc.

 

[Nyati]

I don´t care what type of gun anybody brings to the range.

However, I cringe when I see them in tactical clothing.

 

[Don458]

Some younger shooters & gun shops seem to have an obsession with tactical fire arms & equipment , cammo chassis
rifles, high capacity magazines. muzzle breaks bipods , night vision gear, military packs & cloathing i have seen kids at the range with muzzle breaks on a 22 RF , & banana mags & tactical scopes, I believe that is the wrong image to be setting & it plays right into the anti gun turds agenda. Or am i out of touch?. The blued steel & walnut hunting rifle seems to be a thing of the past . They even sell lever release 12 g shot guns with pistol grip stocks & detachable box magazines, for duck hunting.

Strongly disagree, if Safety is #1 and No laws are being broken you can have what you want. Allot of what you speak of is used in shooting sports like USPSA which I participate and has a Hugh following. Just attacking something because of how it looks is EXACTLY what the anti gunners do. Because you don’t like something doesn’t mean its not ok. Someday someone will attack you for owning a Remington model 8 which is the same as any modern semi. Probably better

 

[sgt_zim]

Personally I dont find MSR "distasteful". (I like your style @sgt_zim)
Moreover, I just might buy one. My plan is to try few local competitions, and if I am happy will go fo it.

But, I understand the issues and public pressure caused by irresponsible gun owners (or criminals) either by unethical public posts on you tube, unsafe handling of firearm on range or during hunt, accidents in hunting, or by criminal acts, when given space in media and daily debates. And media just loves the bad press. it sells well.

The numbers and the facts, is hard to digest by (ignorant) general public, who are not gun owners, and in democracy their opinion counts. (thats fact, btw) They make their opinion, in an instant, just based on TV screen breaking news report. The influence of mass media, would be unwise to ignore. It exists. its the basis of propaganda.

Then, there is a paradox.
Legal gun owners as insurance of tyrannies - is a frequent qoute and generally accepted as fact by those who like the idea.
but is it really so?
The paradox is the fact, that legal gun owner will respect the law, and surrender his firearm once it becomes illegal and banned. This happened in many countries. (UK ban on pistols for example)

So the only possible way, before its too late after the ban is:
Education of general public, on sporting legal use of such rifles, and ethical and safe behavior by responsible gun owners, contacting your represenatatives. Make positive PR.
Change the public perception. thats how democracy works.
in the same time, make it more popular, bring family to shooting range, make your friend join the sport shooting club, let him start to compete for medals, etc.

No great disagreement with any of that, except this: the US isn't the UK or Australia.

As to the "it's the law" idea, at least here, most of us are fairly well-read, so a quote from Oliver Twist:
"If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "the law is a ass - a idiot". Many of us have also read Gulag Archipelago, and have taken Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's warnings to heart.

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.

You'll have to trust me on this - I pray to God this never becomes a thing. My life is great, and gets better every day. And something like this would ruin what I've worked towards for 30 years. Many of us find ourselves in the next quote as well.

The most terrifying force of death comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. The moment the Men who wanted to be left alone are forced to fight back, it is a form of suicide. They are literally killing off who they used to be. Which is why, when forced to take up violence, these Men who wanted to be left alone, fight with unholy vengeance against those who murdered their former lives. They fight with raw hate, and a drive that cannot be fathomed by those who are merely play-acting at politics and terror. TRUE TERROR will arrive at these people’s door, and they will cry, scream, and beg for mercy… but it will fall upon the deaf ears of the Men who just wanted to be left alone.”

– Author Unknown

 

[Tanks]

That's right, short-barreled pump-action shotguns are very dangerous, despite the fact that they are useless for hunting. Even more dangerous than any rifles. Long-barreled pump pumps are also under suspicion, because it is easy to make a pump sawn-off from them. Therefore, pump-action shotguns are simply prohibited in some European countries. Semi-automatic shotguns are less dangerous, because with a handicraft shortened barrel, they usually lose the ability to reload.
...

Have you ever fired a "tactical semi-automatic shotgun". I just finished a 4 day course with my Beretta 1301 Tactical with an 18.5 inch barrel (45.3cm). It holds 7 rounds plus 1.

I can fire it and reload it much faster than a pump action shotgun. As a matter of fact at the end of the course there was a test on various skills under time pressure and I finished ahead of everyone including guys with pump action shotguns. That despite the fact that I had never fired that shotgun prior to the course and did not even know how to unload the magazine without firing it or making the bolt stay back on an empty gun (reason I took the course).

That shotgun definitely will be my choice of weapon for close quarters social work.

Finally, there is no such thing as a dangerous weapon, just dangerous men.

 

[mark-hunter]

@Tanks
Dont underestimate Vashper...
I think he fired a good amount of ammo from full auto tactical rifle.... lets see what he will reply...
Another thing is:
Typical modern american sport is IPSC... and it is in full swing in Russia. Moreover, current president of IPSC confederation is Russian.
So, those type of firearms are getting really popular there.

BTW first president of IPSC was Jeff Cooper, and by today it is Russian.... quite some development of things...

 

[Tanks]

@Tanks
...

BTW first president of IPSC was Jeff Cooper, and by today it is Russian.... quite some development of things...

IPSC in the USA has evolved and replaced by USPSA, with different rules,, as a matter of fact the last President of USPSA was quite hostile to it. There are just a few IPSC matches each year to get people to qualify for the World Shoot put together by IPSC. It makes sense for a European to head that organization.

Until Covid I used to compete weekly in USPSA.

 

[Shootist43]

I have over 100 long guns six of them are Black. After zeroing the Black rifles, they go to the back of the safe. I recognize their utility and will grab one of them if needed. The firearms I normally use for recreation and hunting are blued steel and Walnut. Like I tell my grandkids, it is the accuracy of the shot that matters, not the quantity that counts.

 

[sgt_zim]

I have over 100 long guns six of them are Black. After zeroing the Black rifles, they go to the back of the safe. I recognize their utility and will grab one of them if needed. The firearms I normally use for recreation and hunting are blued steel and Walnut. Like I tell my grandkids, it is the accuracy of the shot that matters, not the quantity that counts.

Right there with you...I don't have quite that many guns, but...the only one of my black rifles that sees action, and it's pretty regular, is the 308 with the 24" fluted barrel.

 

[Muskox]

My 2 schillingi.

I was a hunter as a child, I grew up in a hunting family.

I also grew up in a family with a father who was involved in law enforcement my entire young life. He was a police officer, a deputy sheriff and eventually a federal agent. He served in the military prior to the invasion of Vietnam, and was just getting out when they were gearing up for Vietnam.

I was in the military for most of my adult life, was a police officer in Alaska, and was a federal agent.

There are tons of people who do not, hunt, did not grow up in law enforcement and are still interested in firearms.

Tons of military people in my German hunting class, had never hunted and had no interest in hunting but liked guns. They liked all kinds of guns.

Here in New Mexico which is a fairly blue state, we have a huge gun culture.

Video games probably gave into some form of an interest for some people. But I don't think this is the common thread.

Those that are interested in firearms but not hunting generally never had an introduction to hunting. Or they had a bad experience while hunting.

I coached a guy from work when I lived in California on hunting, and he ended up doing a guided hog hunt on the Tejon ranch. He had a great time, and that pushed him into his interest in hunting. One of our coworkers was introduced to hunting via a put and take California hog operation and hated it.

Many little things matter that influence your path to hearing the hunting horn. When I was 18-24 I had a hard time finding someone to go hunting with or someone to go hunting with. I grew up in a hunting family but didn't have a lot of money and was stationed in central California.

Then I finally took what was my first hunt on my own and I went to Namibia at 25 and that really rekindled my desire to be a hunter.

 

[shootist~]

And some people like to ride horses...how crazy is that?

 

[rdog]

Strongly disagree, if Safety is #1 and No laws are being broken you can have what you want. Allot of what you speak of is used in shooting sports like USPSA which I participate and has a Hugh following. Just attacking something because of how it looks is EXACTLY what the anti gunners do. Because you don’t like something doesn’t mean its not ok. Someday someone will attack you for owning a Remington model 8 which is the same as any modern semi. Probably better

You can not own a Remington model8 or any semi auto in Australia since the Port Arthur shootings in 1995 & there is a strong believe it was a set up by the government for more gun control, & it worked. We are going into a federal election year the Labour party, similar to your Joe Biden administration is very anti gun & will stop at nothing to achieve their left wing agenda so feeding the media which is mainly left wing, oppotunites to brand shooters as right extremests does not do our cause any good, we do not have a 2nd amendment in this country the labour state governments closed down gun shops during the early covert virus for pubic safety so thats what we are up against . I was involved in IPSC for some years & won 2nd place in the national championships in 1976 using a Colt 1911 gold cup but i did not have to dress in camo to do it!

 

[Bsto270]

I think the biggest difference in opinions seen in this thread is simply perspective based on the nation people are posting from. In the US, it is generally acknowledged that gun ownership is a right, and that thankfully at least as of now rights are not predicated on what someone "needs" or on someone's feelings about what someone else uses to exercise that right. As long as someone is shooting safely, I feel we need all the gun owners we can get.

 

[Bearbait1]

“Obsession With Tactical Rifles”

At one point I imagine our great great grand fathers couldn’t understand why all those whipersnappers were obsessed with those newfangled smokeless cartridges. Muzzle loading black powder rifles were good enough for them.

 

[rdog]

“Obsession With Tactical Rifles”

At one point I imagine our great great grand fathers couldn’t understand why all those whipersnappers were obsessed with those newfangled smokeless cartridges. Muzzle loading black powder rifles were good enough for them.

I think this discussion has gone off the rails i personally do not have an issue with tactical rifles i carried one for 4 years the point i am trying to make is dressing in tactical gear at the rifle range gives the left wing turds an opportunity to brand shooters as right wing extremists , left wing extremists get a free ride in this country our political system is a mess.

 

[Jfet]

our political system is a mess.

Yes, like back in the day when not everyone supported declaring independence from Great Britain. It was pretty bad when a certain president got elected and before he could even take office a bunch of states left the union. It is a mess alright but it has been worse. I believe the quote from Winston Churchill applies

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Keep your head up my friend. Good Days will outnumber bad days.