New USA requirements in addition to the form 4457

[JimP]

I was wondering if anyone has contacted any of the firearm permit services in SA to see if they have heard anything? I know that they just deal with the SA permit system but with the amount of hunters that are going through their system they may know something.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I called a Travel With Guns this morning. They became aware of this situation yesterday. As mentioned before, this is SNAFU. TWG is actively looking into this, when they'll have an answer for what is now required and how to effectively abide by the req'ts, I don't know.

 

[gillettehunter]

What a cluster Fu__. I leave for Africa on May 2. Taking a first timer with me. Just gotta hate Government red tape. Bruce

 

[Wheels]

My question is when you do the quiz, one of the answers you choose is the ammunition will return with you. So, it posses the question in my mind, do we have to bring our spent brass back with us along with our un-used ammunition in order to 'prove' that we did not gift it or otherwise leave it in the country we were in. It's this type of clarity I would like to have - isn't there a saying 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'.

I sent notes to DSC, SCI and NRA/ILA - we'll see what kind of response I get from them.

Sorry, I get your response now.

I didn't understand your initial point. This entire thread is making me

 

[thi9elsp]

Wheels, no reason to apologize. I'm feeling the same as you - only probably green. Kind of like feeling great on an offshore fishing trip, then the rolling starts...

I specifically decided to use my outfitters rifle for my New Zealand trip but he requires me to bring ammo. No big deal I thought. Just declare it and check the locked bag. Now...ugh.

 

[gillettehunter]

This is noted on another site that I am a member of. Suggestion is to start contacting your congressman. About all we can do for now. Bruce

 

[BRICKBURN]

I am leaving April 11th so I guess that is me! If you never hear from me after that you know I am in the federal prison.
.....................

Get prepared

 

[brushmore]

Hey Brickburn, we REALLY need an unlike button for post like that!

My plan is to become a snitch for the gov so I'll get sent to one of the country club prisons.

 

[brushmore]

This is noted on another site that I am a member of. Suggestion is to start contacting your congressman. About all we can do for now. Bruce

I just did that. If .gov wants to be a nuisance well so can I.

 

[JGRaider]

I'm leaving from a non port of entry airport on April 21st. My question is, in instances such as this, will you be able/unable to check guns through to final destination, or will you have to claim them again in let's say, Dallas or Atlanta and go through this BS there?

The liberal retards will ruin our country yet............bastids.

 

[JimP]

I'm leaving from a non port of entry airport on April 21st. My question is, in instances such as this, will you be able/unable to check guns through to final destination, or will you have to claim them again in let's say, Dallas or Atlanta and go through this BS there?

The liberal retards will ruin our country yet............bastids.

Your guess is as good as the rest of ours at this time.

 

[TRAVEL EXPRESS]

Just wanted to chime in - don't have any "answers" on all of this but did speak to a customs agent I know and he was not happy about it. He said he is trying to involve SCI and the NRA because all they are doing is targeting hunters with this process. He also said they plan to do away with the form 4457 which makes no sense as that is required by a lot of the foreign countries for their permits as well. He said you can drive across a border and take all the guns you want without any paperwork but not if you are flying. He said he has a meeting tomorrow on it and will touch base with me after it if he learns anything new. He did not have an implementation date as he said their software is not even ready to handle this.

@Wheels - regarding your mention of the agent entering your information, not sure about that when entering the country but I did question an agent once when we were obtaining our 4457's on new firearms and they run the S/N against the stolen firearm list and also run a background check to make you can legally own a firearm. The customs agent I know also verified that he does this and thus the reason other countries like to see the 4457 because they know that the owner and firearms have been checked out by the U.S. The information is not supposed to be retained in their system!

Wish I had firm answers but it's kind of like dealing with the airlines - every agent you talk to has a different answer that may/may not be correct!

I'll update if I learn anything else but I have not had any clients travelling that have mentioned any issues thus far.

 

[brushmore]

Thanks Lori!

 

[JimP]

I just sent off a email to my US Congressman and the rest of you should also. Remember it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

If you don't know who your congressman is or how to contact them then here is a link to help you out.

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

 

[Wheels]

Just wanted to chime in - don't have any "answers" on all of this but did speak to a customs agent I know and he was not happy about it. He said he is trying to involve SCI and the NRA because all they are doing is targeting hunters with this process. He also said they plan to do away with the form 4457 which makes no sense as that is required by a lot of the foreign countries for their permits as well. He said you can drive across a border and take all the guns you want without any paperwork but not if you are flying. He said he has a meeting tomorrow on it and will touch base with me after it if he learns anything new. He did not have an implementation date as he said their software is not even ready to handle this.

@Wheels - regarding your mention of the agent entering your information, not sure about that when entering the country but I did question an agent once when we were obtaining our 4457's on new firearms and they run the S/N against the stolen firearm list and also run a background check to make you can legally own a firearm. The customs agent I know also verified that he does this and thus the reason other countries like to see the 4457 because they know that the owner and firearms have been checked out by the U.S. The information is not supposed to be retained in their system!

Wish I had firm answers but it's kind of like dealing with the airlines - every agent you talk to has a different answer that may/may not be correct!

I'll update if I learn anything else but I have not had any clients travelling that have mentioned any issues thus far.

Thanks for the help Lori!

 

[BRICKBURN]

This looks like the same kind of process we have to go through in Canada with Export Controls.


https://excol-ceed.gc.ca/excol/Forms/ExportPermit/ExportPermit.aspx?recordId=-1&type=2&lang=en


An set of forms online to record the temporary export of firearms, scopes and ammunition.
Once I got used to it, I found it fairly painless.
I had my permit for the firearms within 24 hours.
The scopes and Ammo (Other Goods) took about ten days.
Apparently the US government is concerned we might be exporting "Optical Weapons Systems" and the Canadian government has to make sure we do not piss the folks off who are now screwing with you guys directly.


I think all this has to do with Small Arms Treaties.

We all feel safer right! (tongue heavily in cheek)

 

[brushmore]

This looks like the same kind of process we have to go through in Canada with Export Controls.

On the surface this doesn't seem completely unreasonable. (It's still I think is unreasonable but the intentions I can sort of understand.) However, the implement of this is a complete SNAFU with a heavy emphasis on the F!

 

[BRICKBURN]

On the surface this doesn't seem completely unreasonable. (It's still I think is unreasonable but the intentions I can sort of understand.) However, the implement of this is a complete SNAFU with a heavy emphasis on the F!

This last minute crap with minimal or no notice is simply ignorant.


With our system I was thrilled I could do it online instead of waiting in some line somewhere in a government building.
Having the permit emailed back to me was also a plus.

 

[thi9elsp]

I received this back from DSC. They contacted Steve Turner at TWG. It appears that together they're trying to get with NRA, etc. to also figure out what this means.


---------- Forwarded message ----------

Hi Gayne


Not much I can tell you about this just yet. See link below from ICE website which has gone viral and causing panic!
https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq
Reading between the lines and trying to understand the legalese is beyond me, but from discussions I have had and reading the Federal Regulations someone has messed up here and if they have not messed up, they have yet to put the system in place to register on the AES website. Right now only companies with and EIN can register online at AES, individuals are not able to. Have folks trying to get hold of the NRA legal team to see what they can make of it and have emails out to the respective government departments but right now I do not have an answer.

If you can use your contacts to find out how an individual is supposed to register on a website designed for companies dealing with exports and imports I would be forever grateful!


Steve

 

[Royal27]

On the surface this doesn't seem completely unreasonable. (It's still I think is unreasonable but the intentions I can sort of understand.) However, the implement of this is a complete SNAFU with a heavy emphasis on the F!

This!

This last minute crap with minimal or no notice is simply ignorant.

And this!

And thanks Lori!

I have until May 6th. I hope that I don't get caught up in a fire drill, but if I do there are worse things. Like not going to Africa.