New USA requirements in addition to the form 4457

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Go here and look for the drop down concerning hunting in Africa and you'll see:

https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

No, 22 C.F.R. § 123.17 allows U.S. persons to temporarily export up to three (3) firearms (rifles and/or handguns) and up to 1000 rounds of related ammunition without a license providing that they will be returned to the United States. However, the exporter is still required to make a declaration via the Automated Export System (AES), pursuant to 22 C.F.R. § 123.22(a) and submit the AES Internal Transaction Number (ITN) along with the firearms/ammunition to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) for visual inspection prior to departure from the U.S. NOTE: U.S. persons exporting firearms and ammunition from the United States using a valid license exemption are responsible for knowing and complying with any foreign laws requiring an import permit or advanced authorization prior to transporting or carrying firearms and ammunition into the foreign country. Attempting to bring firearms into a foreign country without prior authorization or permission from the appropriate foreign officials may result in arrest, criminal prosecution, seizure of personally owned firearms and ammunition, and/or denial of entry into the country.

 

[brushmore]

Great, just when I though I had everything lined up for my trip in three weeks they pull this.

Good thing I have ah.com that's for sure!!

 

[brushmore]

Here's some relevant info from the FAQ that Jerome provided:

I am going hunting in Africa and plan to take a rifle and rifle ammunition; do I need to obtain an export license?

No, 22 C.F.R. § 123.17 allows U.S. persons to temporarily export up to three (3) firearms (rifles and/or handguns) and up to 1000 rounds of related ammunition without a license providing that they will be returned to the United States. However, the exporter is still required to make a declaration via the Automated Export System (AES), pursuant to 22 C.F.R. § 123.22(a) and submit the AES Internal Transaction Number (ITN) along with the firearms/ammunition to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) for visual inspection prior to departure from the U.S. NOTE: U.S. persons exporting firearms and ammunition from the United States using a valid license exemption are responsible for knowing and complying with any foreign laws requiring an import permit or advanced authorization prior to transporting or carrying firearms and ammunition into the foreign country. Attempting to bring firearms into a foreign country without prior authorization or permission from the appropriate foreign officials may result in arrest, criminal prosecution, seizure of personally owned firearms and ammunition, and/or denial of entry into the country.


I also found this which is interesting:

What is required when traveling internationally with firearms and/or ammunition for personal use in recreational activities such as hunting and shooting sports competitions?

Any removal of firearms and/or ammunition from the U.S. for any period of time is considered an “export” and requires compliance with all applicable laws and regulations. 22 C.F.R. § 123.17 allows U.S. persons to export temporarily from the United States without a license not more than three (3) nonautomatic/semi-automatic firearms in Category I(a) of the United States Munitions List (rifles and pistols up to .50 caliber ) and not more than 1,000 cartridges therefor, provided that:

1. The person declares the articles to a CBP officer upon each departure from the United States, presents the Internal Transaction Number (ITN) from submission of the Electronic Export Information (EEI) in the Automated Export System (AES) per 22 C.F.R. § 123.22, and the articles are presented to the CBP officer for inspection;
2. The firearms and accompanying ammunition to be exported is with the individual's baggage or effects, whether accompanied or unaccompanied (i.e. checked baggage), but not mailed; and
3. The firearms and accompanying ammunition must be for that person's exclusive use and not for reexport, sale, gift, or other transfer of ownership. The person must declare that it is his/her intention to return the article(s) on each return to the United States.

Note that item 3. Giving your left over ammo to the PH is a crime! Anyone know if these are new regulations?

I am going to attempt to make a declaration via the Automated Export System. I'll let everyone know how that goes.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Thank you brushmore! Please let us know how the process via the Automated Export System goes... With much appreciation, Jerome

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Note that item 3. Giving your left over ammo to the PH is a crime! Anyone know if these are new regulations?

I am going to attempt to make a declaration via the Automated Export System. I'll let everyone know how that goes.

Hmm..........guess I dropped my gun a few times and had to "resight" it in..................frequently. That, and we shot at a lot of jackals.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

It says I have to "verbally" inform someone at CBP prior to my leaving; does that mean that I can call them on the phone...........or do I need to show up in person (and with the firearms)?

 

[brushmore]

I am going to attempt to make a declaration via the Automated Export System. I'll let everyone know how that goes.

OK, this is a real mess. Again from the FAQ:

Can I use a CBP Form 4457 - Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad to declare the temporary export of firearms/ammunition rather than filing the EEI in AESDirect?

No. A CBP Form 4457 is used to register personal items (not professional or commercial articles) of foreign origin before traveling abroad to facilitate duty-free reentry of same articles upon traveler's return. This Certificate may not be used to declare the permanent or temporary export of firearms, ammunition or other defense articles (as defined by the United States Munitions List) which requires the electronic reporting of export information in accordance with 22 C.F.R. 123.22.

OK, so I, or an agent of mine, needs to go to AESDirect to file EEI. I go to AESDirect and find this:

Who May Participate in AES?

U. S. Principal Parties in Interest (USPPIs), Authorized Agents, Service Centers, and Software Developers may participate in AES.

But I am don't fit into any of these categories. To use the AESDirect system you first need an account. To get an account you need to:

1. Submit Registration Form
2. Create a Username and Password
3. Download User Guide/ Sample Shipment
4. Take Certification Quiz

I see no practical way for an individual to file their own EEI through AESDirect that way it works now. I'll need an agent. Where do I find an agent?

I have no knowledge of any of this kind of stuff, just reading what it says on websites so if anyone who knows any better please chime in!

 

[JimP]

Sounds like we need a ginny pig to take a trip on or right after April 3 to find out.

I've red the information that brushmore posted 4 or 5 times on the governments site and still get confused about it.

Do we have any lawyers on here that can interpret what is in it?

 

[brushmore]

Sounds like we need a ginny pig to take a trip on or right after April 3 to find out.

I am leaving April 11th so I guess that is me! If you never hear from me after that you know I am in the federal prison.

I may call my local customs office tomorrow to see what they have to say. They were very helpful when I got my 4457 last month.

 

[JimP]

I am leaving April 11th so I guess that is me! If you never hear from me after that you know I am in the federal prison.

I may call my local customs office tomorrow to see what they have to say. They were very helpful when I got my 4457 last month.

I'm sure that we can get together and chip in some for bail money for you.

 

[Areaonereal]

OK... We depart a regional airport on Delta, our bags and rifles are checked thru to Joberg thru Atlanta. Now how is that going to be handled. Customs at port of departure , Atlanta, is supposedly to check documents and rifle and ammo. That should be interesting how that will occur. Once bags are checked thru.....wonder if anyone thought of that from a logistical viewpoint....maybe Eric Holder has the answers.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

guess while we were worried about them banning .223 ammo, they snuck this lovely piece of crap in behind it!!! Time to call, write, and email legislators and scream bloody murder about laws that are impossible to follow................................

 

[Royal27]

OK... We depart a regional airport on Delta, our bags and rifles are checked thru to Joberg thru Atlanta. Now how is that going to be handled. Customs at port of departure , Atlanta, is supposedly to check documents and rifle and ammo. That should be interesting how that will occur. Once bags are checked thru.....wonder if anyone thought of that from a logistical viewpoint....maybe Eric Holder has the answers.

This doesn't make it any hetter, but is a good point none the less. As of today, at least in my experiemce, there is no "paperwork checking" done here in the states on the way out. So would they actually put this on the airlines now? I don't see that happening.

Of course that begs the question what happens on the way back in? Will they keep the rifles from coming back in, or me? Maybe they will send me back to Africa? There are worse things....

This certainly can't be ignored, but I'm not ready to freak out yet. If Brushmore ends up in prison, then I will become concerned.

 

[Amado]

Well.......if this doesn't come under the heading of SNAFU (situation normal, all %^&$#@ up) I don't know what does. So I called the US Customs office about 5 minutes from here at Phx Sky Harbor Airport. I informed him of the information that I had concerning the AESDirect registration thing.

Him: Yeah we got that memo, but we're not enforcing that yet. So you SHOULD be okay.

Me: Well, that's not exactly making me feel good and confident. When are you going to enforce this rule?

Him: Don't worry about it.

Right!

SNAFU Exactly!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

OK, this is a real mess. Again from the FAQ:

Can I use a CBP Form 4457 - Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad to declare the temporary export of firearms/ammunition rather than filing the EEI in AESDirect?

No. A CBP Form 4457 is used to register personal items (not professional or commercial articles) of foreign origin before traveling abroad to facilitate duty-free reentry of same articles upon traveler's return. This Certificate may not be used to declare the permanent or temporary export of firearms, ammunition or other defense articles (as defined by the United States Munitions List) which requires the electronic reporting of export information in accordance with 22 C.F.R. 123.22.

OK, so I, or an agent of mine, needs to go to AESDirect to file EEI. I go to AESDirect and find this:

Who May Participate in AES?

U. S. Principal Parties in Interest (USPPIs), Authorized Agents, Service Centers, and Software Developers may participate in AES.

But I am don't fit into any of these categories. To use the AESDirect system you first need an account. To get an account you need to:

1. Submit Registration Form
2. Create a Username and Password
3. Download User Guide/ Sample Shipment
4. Take Certification Quiz

I see no practical way for an individual to file their own EEI through AESDirect that way it works now. I'll need an agent. Where do I find an agent?

I have no knowledge of any of this kind of stuff, just reading what it says on websites so if anyone who knows any better please chime in!

I will tomorrow once again call the contact support at AESDirect. I was on hold for a long time today but got a few questions answered. I think in this case where you are acting on your own behalf, you are the USPPI. The one thing you have to do is get an EIN from the IRS. See here:

http://aesdirect.census.gov/ein_help.html

Individuals applying for an EIN may do so under the Sole Proprietor category, even if they are not starting a business. The EIN will only be used for government reporting purposes unless it is assigned for one of the reasons mentioned above. It can easily be obtained free of charge from the IRS by applying online, by fax, postal service, or by calling the IRS toll-free on (800) 829-4933. For purposes of registering or filing in the AES or AESDirect, a resident of the United States must use its EIN for identification purposes and the information entered into AES or AESDirect is not disclosed to the IRS.

I started to get the EIN, but then hesitated as I wasn't sure which category to request that under. Apparently this addresses that. You still have to pass the quiz I guess. Likely tougher than getting job with these folks, but you can take it as many times as you need to pass.

There is a User Guide available to study for this quiz, available here:

http://aesdirect.census.gov/support/userguide.html

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

This doesn't make it any hetter, but is a good point none the less. As of today, at least in my experiemce, there is no "paperwork checking" done here in the states on the way out. So would they actually put this on the airlines now? I don't see that happening.

No, they will make you claim your luggage and rifles when you land in Atlanta, then recheck them after you "show" them (CBP) the firearms....potentially missing your connecting flight; interesting thing is that on the CBP website, it has no mention of this new law, and says that all you need is for firearms is form 4475! Is this a case where one govt. bureaucracy doesn't know what the other is doing? Hmm.....imagine that!

 

[AZDAVE]

Having read this several times, I get the same that as long as you are taking 3 or less firearms and less that 1000 rounds you don't need to apply. I have also sent it to Gracy travel folks that have done my SAP520 paperwork and asked them if I need to do anything further. When taking the quiz it says permit not required. The AES stuff is the rules for dealing with export of software that has advance encryption capabilities. So will wait to hear from Gracy and will give the customs folks a call tomorrow.

 

[JimP]

The problem that I see is after you take the quiz and it says that a export license is not required it also says:

A license exemption likely applies therefore:
an Export License is not required
With less than three firearms or 1,000 rounds of ammunition there is a license exemption available.

Anyone who falls into this category MUST file the electronic export information in AESDirect.

Prior to departing the U.S., you MUST verbally declare the items to U.S. Customs and Border Protection and provide confirmation that the electronic export information was submitted into AESDirect.

Additional information can be found at the U.S. Department of State's Directorate of Defense Trade Controls' website.

 

[CAustin]

Folks I went and got a 4457 for a new rifle Friday and they made no mention of this at the Homeland Security Office. Interesting that there seems to be the no requirement for license to hunt but yet you have to report into some website.

 

[Royal27]

No, they will make you claim your luggage and rifles when you land in Atlanta, then recheck them after you "show" them (CBP) the firearms....potentially missing your connecting flight; interesting thing is that on the CBP website, it has no mention of this new law, and says that all you need is for firearms is form 4475! Is this a case where one govt. bureaucracy doesn't know what the other is doing? Hmm.....imagine that!

Kinda my point. What good does this do on the way back? At least if you have the guns it would just be a Pain. Now if they don't check until return and you leave the guns overseas how do they even know you had them?

I'm making some assumptions here, but it sure seems like they are a LONG way from getting this worked out.