New USA requirements in addition to the form 4457

[Wheels]

Great, just when I though I had everything lined up for my trip in three weeks they pull this.

Good thing I have ah.com that's for sure!!

Sorry your having to deal with this.

Glad your doing it and reporting on it for the rest of us instead of me.

 

[thi9elsp]

I leave April 11 for New Zealand. No firearm, but ammunition for the rifle I'm borrowing from the guide. I got the same answer that JimP got when I filled out the questionnaire. If I left the unused ammunition with the guide, then I would have to have an export license. So, I guess, I'll be bringing it back.

I'll be interested to see what AZDave finds out from Gracy.

 

[Wheels]

I will tomorrow once again call the contact support at AESDirect. I was on hold for a long time today but got a few questions answered. I think in this case where you are acting on your own behalf, you are the USPPI. The one thing you have to do is get an EIN from the IRS. See here:

http://aesdirect.census.gov/ein_help.html

Individuals applying for an EIN may do so under the Sole Proprietor category, even if they are not starting a business. The EIN will only be used for government reporting purposes unless it is assigned for one of the reasons mentioned above. It can easily be obtained free of charge from the IRS by applying online, by fax, postal service, or by calling the IRS toll-free on (800) 829-4933. For purposes of registering or filing in the AES or AESDirect, a resident of the United States must use its EIN for identification purposes and the information entered into AES or AESDirect is not disclosed to the IRS.

I started to get the EIN, but then hesitated as I wasn't sure which category to request that under. Apparently this addresses that. You still have to pass the quiz I guess. Likely tougher than getting job with these folks, but you can take it as many times as you need to pass.

There is a User Guide available to study for this quiz, available here:

http://aesdirect.census.gov/support/userguide.html

Phil,

Isn't an EIN number for a sole proprietor a social security number? If that is the case you already have one and can't have a second one. If getting an EIN for a corp., llc, etc. then it wouldn't be the sole proprietor category. What am I missing here?

 

[Royal27]

Here is another thought. Will we be putting our firearms serial numbers into a government database? Am I the only one who doesn't like that idea?

 

[Wheels]

I leave April 11 for New Zealand. No firearm, but ammunition for the rifle I'm borrowing from the guide. I got the same answer that JimP got when I filled out the questionnaire. If I left the unused ammunition with the guide, then I would have to have an export license. So, I guess, I'll be bringing it back.

I'll be interested to see what AZDave finds out from Gracy.

Wouldn't shooting all the ammo you take alleviate all problems.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Phil,

Isn't an EIN number for a sole proprietor a social security number? If that is the case you already have one and can't have a second one. If getting an EIN for a corp., llc, etc. then it wouldn't be the sole proprietor category. What am I missing here?

Bob, my head was spinning today. Dealing with gov't employee in California who was running me down some other road despite my pleas to keep her on the subject of the AESDirect thing. You may very well be correct, wil try to find out tomorrow. Hopefully AZDAVE has word from Gracy so I won't have to bother!

 

[Wheels]

Here is another thought. Will we be putting our firearms serial numbers into a government database? Am I the only one who doesn't like that idea?

My last time returning through Atlanta with rifles they had one guy reading off the serial number and another guy recording it in a computer. I didn't really think of it until after the fact. Then I thought how sneaky. I think they are already doing this to us Royal!

 

[Royal27]

My last time returning through Atlanta with rifles they had one guy reading off the serial number and another guy recording it in a computer. I didn't really think of it until after the fact. Then I thought how sneaky. I think they are already doing this to us Royal!

I liked your comment, but really wanted a dislike button...

 

[K-man]

Wh

Phil,

Isn't an EIN number for a sole proprietor a social security number? If that is the case you already have one and can't have a second one. If getting an EIN for a corp., llc, etc. then it wouldn't be the sole proprietor category. What am I missing here?

Wheels, an EIN is instead of your ssn #, and you can have more than one, example, multiple sole proprietor business, etc. Some people own their gun in a trust, etc especially if it has a supressor. So the owner of the gun now evidently has to be in "business" What a load of cr#p. Each EIN has to file a tax return every year.

 

[Wheels]

Wh

Wheels, an EIN is instead of your ssn #, and you can have more than one, example, multiple sole proprietor business, etc. Some people own their gun in a trust, etc especially if it has a supressor. So the owner of the gun now evidently has to be in "business" What a load of cr#p. Each EIN has to file a tax return every year.

K,

Thanks for the explanation. This is really interesting. A tax return for an inanimate object with no taxable event.

The CPA's must be enjoying this.

 

[blackdog001blackdog001]

Gents -

IMHO I think this is being interpeted incorrectly (shocker) by all of us. I have to believe, that if the US Government put in place a requirement for those traveling outside the US with firearms to fill out a form in a US Government database and take a test, that the NRA would be all over this like flies on you know what. I follow this sort of thing closely for a variety of reasons and have read nothing about this test, etc., anywhere other than here. That is not to say that the info here is necessarily incorrect, just that the interpretation thereof may be off.

Does anyone know of anyone who has been stopped on departure and asked to provide this number that you get from entering the data into the database? How about on return? While my most recent trip to Africa was June 2014, when I came back thru at JFK, the Customs agent did not even check the 4457. He simply looked at the gun and indicated since I only had one, to have a nice day.

My $.02 but I would probably bet a mid-priced lunch I'm correct.

 

[Areaonereal]

Just spoke with the local Customs agent....He knew nothing of this requirement, but was contacting Chicago Office for details. He was as concerned as we are regarding this fiasco. EIN, Test, Export license, could not understand why all that would be necessary, but his comment....those rules are written by non gun advocates.

 

[ActionBob]

Gents -

IMHO I think this is being interpeted incorrectly (shocker) by all of us. I have to believe, that if the US Government put in place a requirement for those traveling outside the US with firearms to fill out a form in a US Government database and take a test, that the NRA would be all over this like flies on you know what. I follow this sort of thing closely for a variety of reasons and have read nothing about this test, etc., anywhere other than here. That is not to say that the info here is necessarily incorrect, just that the interpretation thereof may be off.

Does anyone know of anyone who has been stopped on departure and asked to provide this number that you get from entering the data into the database? How about on return? While my most recent trip to Africa was June 2014, when I came back thru at JFK, the Customs agent did not even check the 4457. He simply looked at the gun and indicated since I only had one, to have a nice day.

My $.02 but I would probably bet a mid-priced lunch I'm correct.

I was told of this and handed that original attached letter as a "By the way" kind of thing when I went to get my 4457.... He told me it free, just log on and follow the simple directions.... I don't believe the guy had really looked at it himself but was following a memo and handing out the letter...

@blackdog001blackdog001 Nobody has any experience with it yet because it goes into effect April 3rd, 2015.... As I understand it. I would like nothing more than to be wrong on this.. If you have the inside track with the NRA, please have them look at it!

 

[thi9elsp]

If you look at the bottom of the PDF Bob attached, it has the government website:

http://www.ice.gov/cpi

I went into the FAQ area and it is pretty specific that we have to follow these rules to get an ITN issued. I haven't looked into trying to use my SS# on the AESDirect site vs. applying for an EIN and using it. I contacted Esplanade Travel but Kit had no idea about this and said it probably only applied to Africa, not New Zealand. Obviously, by the government website it applies to export anywhere out of the US as I read it.

Makes me think this came up due to the UN Treaty on arms trade. If you go to wikipedia it is pretty explicit what the treaty is trying to do: "obligates member states to monitor arms exports". And, this is the administration's way of not ratifying the treaty but forcing us to comply with their interpretation of it it. Also, seems that by requiring us to get an EIN and to apply for the exemption, they are starting to establish a registration database of all of us that hunt internationally. Yup, call me paranoid, but...

I too would like to know NRAs position. I'm a life member, will be calling them today. Will probably try SCI and DSC as well.

 

[brushmore]

Since it seems the local offices are just as in the dark on this as we are I called ICE's Office of Policy. All I got was an answering machine so I left a message. I'm not holding my breath that they'll call me back.

IMHO I think this is being interpeted incorrectly (shocker) by all of us. I have to believe, that if the US Government put in place a requirement for those traveling outside the US with firearms to fill out a form in a US Government database and take a test, that the NRA would be all over this like flies on you know what.

I read the regulation and unfortunately we are no interpreting this incorrectly. The regulations are very clear, we are exempt from needing any kind of license but we still have to register on AESDirect. The problem is the .gov people are all fouled up on this.

 

[brushmore]

I just got off the phone with the local Pittsburgh Customs office and I explained to them my issues with AESDirect. Their exact words to me "don't worry, we are doing that here yet." So I asked them when and their response was "sometime next year". Since I'm flying through JFK that's doesn't exactly give me a warm and fuzzy feeling but unless I hear otherwise I'll proceed as planned. It's funny I knew more about their regs than they do just from reading their own website!

My suggestion for anyone else who is leaving for Africa soon would be to call you local Custom Office and go from there. Let them know the AESDirect website does not permit what they are requiring for the typical citizen.

 

[JimP]

brushmore, diffidently let us know how your experience goes one way or another. I am leaving May 12 and will check with a couple of custom offices and see if they know anything as April 3 gets here.

It is interesting in that as I read the regulation on the web it sounds more like if you are a distributor or a reseller as far as the regulation are written, but with the government you never know.

 

[Wheels]

This year due to travel issues, We used camp rifles at both places hunted. No real issues with either of them. With laws/regs. like this, I will consider using camp rifles more or even for all of my hunts. It certainly allows me to travel to other nations on the trip without the hassle of dealing with firearms and paperwork.


Yesterday and the day before, I was in negotiations with an individual for a 458L. This morning I emailed him and told him I would pass.


Will we become the last generation to hunt internationally?

When does the pain and hassle outweigh the enjoyment? Our government is slowly making us ask these questions.

 

[ActionBob]

Wheels, like Royal pointed out earlier, definitely need a dislike button on that, but have to agree with you.

Guys, The Customs fellow I got this from made it sound very low key.. The guy was even wearing camo trim on his shirt! I did not get the impression he really fully understood the new regs, but was passing on info he was told was pertinent (I'm sure they had a meeting or got a memo on it). I emailed him some questions but nothing back yet and the phone just rings with no answer and no machine. He did say they are short staffed because they are going through a lot of training..... which probably does not bode well for us either.

When he handed me this, I took it to mean I was to go on the site and verify I am exempt.. But now I cannot get on to do that!

He also told me this was an effect caused by the "Fast and Furious" scandal... At least that was the story he got.

I'm one of those guys who equally loves to hunt AND love guns.. So I really want to use my own guns and it is part of the whole expieriance for me... These @#%&$ have no right to take that away from me... In fact our constitution says so! Someone up the chain does seem to think they have the right to build a bigger empire of red tape though!

 

[thi9elsp]

Wouldn't shooting all the ammo you take alleviate all problems.

My question is when you do the quiz, one of the answers you choose is the ammunition will return with you. So, it posses the question in my mind, do we have to bring our spent brass back with us along with our un-used ammunition in order to 'prove' that we did not gift it or otherwise leave it in the country we were in. It's this type of clarity I would like to have - isn't there a saying 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'.

I sent notes to DSC, SCI and NRA/ILA - we'll see what kind of response I get from them.