Lion hunting SA

[dchum]

If I was blind (and I'm half way there) I don't think I could find a way to see shooting anything over bait as exilerating. How can anyone get excited blasting a bear chewing on a blue plastic barrel full of donuts? Some guys do, but I couldn't.

Same guys who lure a lion to bait and shoot it will condemn someone else for tracking down one released from a pen. In my opinion that's the pot calling the kettle black.

One is a wild animal and lives there because almighty god put him there. The other lion is put there by someone so “you” can pretend to track and tell your friends you're teddy Roosevelt. But ya more exciting for some simple minded people who don’t like full pictures and don’t mind doing mental gymnastics so they can smile. It’s a simple charade, A broadway play of sorts. And I guess some people are ok with that. (I don’t think I will ever afford a wild lion hunt and I am ok with that)

I don’t like my game transported for me. That’s just me.

Different hunting methods offer different flavors. Hide hunting from a machan or box blind is a unique and enjoyable experience. Listening to the birds sing as the sun lights up the area. The way the game just magically appears in silence as you look out from your hide… I love it.

 

[375Fox]

So why would it matter if ranches get stocked before the season? Where do you expect the 60" Kudud bulls that Americans seem to prefer to come from, born and bred on every ranch? Really? It's a beautiful industry - Some guys are great at breeding and rearing, and some are great at entertaining foreigners. Very few pieces of land in the RSA are big enough for what you envision as ideal. Game is an industry in South Africa - not a hobby for the well-heeled. If this had not been the case, South Africa would have been in the same state as the rest of Africa. Nothing alive outside of a National Park, or few GMA's over which outfitters have to guard day and night to keep the locals out.
I left SA (North of Limpopo) a few decades ago, and I am not what would be described as a "client." So, I have never seen an advert for an SA lion hunt (although I have hunted PG on "Lion Farm" in the Kalahari). I would be interested to hear if any Forum members were "lured" to SA through false claims such as a "Rogue Botswana Lion." I'm not saying it can't happen. There are charlatans everywhere. I'm interested in how prevalent such practices would be.

The documentary Blood Lions in 2015 exposed and changed the CBL industry. No more rouge lions from Botswana after that. Now it’s just extremely reduced prices from those days bringing hunters in.
I have no interest in hunting a 60 inch kudu stocked into a ranch (into an already existing kudu herd) at the start of season. If someone wants to and knows what they are doing, go for it, I don’t care. However, I see stocking a CBL lion raised on dead chickens and meat scraps 7 days prior to the hunt as something different. Every lion introduced that year will be harvested.

 

[revturbo9967]

Sorry, but I am really unable to wrap my head around shooting anything over bait as "exhilarating." Guess I should give it a try ... nah ... I don't see that happening.

Some could say the same about shooting a buffalo cow in a fenced pen.

Condemning someone on this forum for hunting and killing a free range lion, in a communal area, is outright lunacy.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Some could say the same about shooting a buffalo cow in a fenced pen.

Condemning someone on this forum for hunting and killing a free range lion, in a communal area, is outright lunacy.

4,000 acres is hardly a "pen." Wasn't a "wild" hunt but the animals sure acted wild enough. Chased them around very close in very thick stuff all afternoon and then got a couple of charges from the herd bull. That made it wild enough. And it was a cheap hunt. I got my money's worth and more. More than expected.

Speaking of money, I think the high cost of some of these "wild" hunts is what makes them exhilarating ... whether they really are or aren't "hunting." Is anyone going to dump $50K on a baited lion hunt and say it wasn't worth it? Spending fifty grand on a hunt makes the hunter special and for many of these guys being special is what's important. I get that. As I've said before, no one wants to be ordinary. No one worth procreating anyway. But trying to run down other lion hunters who do it on the cheap and, in my opinion, no less ethically is kinda phoney.

 

[375Fox]

Speaking of money, I think the high cost of some of these "wild" hunts is what makes them exhilarating ... whether they really are or aren't "hunting." Is anyone going to dump $50K on a lion hunt and say it wasn't worth it? Spending fifty grand on a hunt makes the hunter special and for many of these guys being special is what's important. I get that. As I've said before, no one wants to be ordinary. No one worth procreating anyway. But trying to run down other lion hunters who do it on the cheap and, in my opinion, no less ethically is kinda phoney.

You might want to look up the prices on CBL lions before the importation ban went to into place.
You also might want to see what CBL lions look like 7 days before they get harvested.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You might want to look up the prices on CBL lions before the importation ban went to into place.
You also might want to see what CBL lions look like 7 days before they get harvested.

The $50K price tag is not for CBL hunts.

 

[375Fox]

The $50K price tag is not for CBL hunts.

It approached that for the best maned CBL lions before importation bans went go into place and people still believed they were rouges crossing from Botswana. Cheap CBL hunts are a recent invention.

 

[revturbo9967]

4,000 acres is hardly a "pen." Wasn't a "wild" hunt but the animals sure acted wild enough. Chased them around very close in very thick stuff all afternoon and then got a couple of charges from the herd bull. That made it wild enough. And it was a cheap hunt. I got my money's worth and more. More than expected.

Speaking of money, I think the high cost of some of these "wild" hunts is what makes them exhilarating ... whether they really are or aren't "hunting." Is anyone going to dump $50K on a baited lion hunt and say it wasn't worth it? Spending fifty grand on a hunt makes the hunter special and for many of these guys being special is what's important. I get that. As I've said before, no one wants to be ordinary. No one worth procreating anyway. But trying to run down other lion hunters who do it on the cheap and, in my opinion, no less ethically is kinda phoney.

You're saying some hunters are more exhilarated because they spend more money on a hunt then someone else?

 

[Shakka]

4,000 acres is hardly a "pen." Wasn't a "wild" hunt but the animals sure acted wild enough. Chased them around very close in very thick stuff all afternoon and then got a couple of charges from the herd bull. That made it wild enough. And it was a cheap hunt. I got my money's worth and more. More than expected.

Speaking of money, I think the high cost of some of these "wild" hunts is what makes them exhilarating ... whether they really are or aren't "hunting." Is anyone going to dump $50K on a baited lion hunt and say it wasn't worth it? Spending fifty grand on a hunt makes the hunter special and for many of these guys being special is what's important. I get that. As I've said before, no one wants to be ordinary. No one worth procreating anyway. But trying to run down other lion hunters who do it on the cheap and, in my opinion, no less ethically is kinda phoney.

If you get into a truck and drive from one side of 4,000 acres to the other non-stop, you will realize how small 4,000 acres is.

Before you go on your CBL Hunt, ask the PH to show you where the Lions live until 4:00 am the morning of your hunt, you will feel ashamed of yourself...then again, maybe not

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If you get into a truck and drive from one side of 4,000 acres to the other non-stop, you will realize how small 4,000 acres is.

Before you go on your CBL Hunt, ask the PH to show you where the Lions live until 4:00 am the morning of your hunt, you will feel ashamed of yourself...then again, maybe not

It's big enough to lose a herd of forty buffalo ... if they choose to be lost.

I have absolutely no ambitions of hunting cats of any sort, any way, anywhere.

 

[Shakka]

It's big enough to lose a herd of forty buffalo ... if they choose to be lost.

I have absolutely no ambitions of hunting cats of any sort, any way, anywhere.

I totally agree with you regarding Buffalo, but it makes me sick to do the same with something as magnificent as a Lion. He deserves more respect than that. Raising it in a cage, feeding it dead chickens, and then drugging him and kicking him out into the bush at 4 am so that some pretentious banker from Chicago can kill it in relative safety and then Bragg to his friends about it is sickening.

Yet the PH's will tell you that he has been living on his own for a month, making his own kills....total Bullshit

 

[WAB]

I totally agree with you regarding Buffalo, but it makes me sick to do the same with something as magnificent as a Lion. He deserves more respect than that. Raising it in a cage, feeding it dead chickens, and then drugging him and kicking him out into the bush at 4 am so that some pretentious banker from Chicago can kill it in relative safety and then Bragg to his friends about it is sickening.

Yet the PH's will tell you that he has been living on his own for a month, making his own kills....total Bullshit

As in most things, it’s probably best not to paint all operators with the same brush. There are properties with sustainable lion populations in RSA. I am sure there are also operators with long pre-hunt release periods on large properties.

I am still a little mystified at what makes rearing lions for sport any different than an impala or a pheasant? Perhaps there’s too much farmer in me, but for me there is no difference. Would it be wrong to raise lions to harvest their bones if there was a legal market? If so, why can I raise a cow for meat and leather?

 

[Tundra Tiger]

You are making some suppositions here sir...

"but it makes me sick to do the same with something as magnificent as a lion. He deserves more respect than that."

This may well be your opinion, and the opinion of others, but it is very much a subjective viewpoint, as to a lion being accorded more or less respect than other species.

"some pretentious banker from Chicago can kill it in relative safety and then brag to his friends about it is sickening."

I am not a banker. I am not from Chicago. I do not believe I am pretentious. I hope to participate in a hunt of this nature with a sponsor of this site in the not too distant future. There are a number of very highly thought of/respected sponsors on this site that conduct such hunts. My understanding is it can be very much far from "relative safety."

"Yet the PHs will tell you that he has been living on his own for a month, making his own kills....total bullshit."

I think you are painting all outfitters with the same brush and I don't think that's fair to some of the outfitters on this site. In fact, I think it's somewhat disrespecting them.

You are entitled to your opinions, just as I am entitled to mine. I get it. It's not for you. Just try not to put down honest hardworking folks who don't have the same opinion, or those who provide for hunts like this and try to do it in a fair fashion.

Edit: @WAB beat me to it. Thank you good sir for making that exact point.

 

[Hunt anything]

Are Americans the only ones that hunt CBL? Seems we get a lot of the blame!

 

[Roller]

It ain't logical, but I must admit that the idea of farm raising predators (any predators) to hunt for sport is a very different thing to me than impala, buffalo or other cloven hoof game. Maybe because man is a predator too? Flame away.....

 

[Red Leg]

It ain't logical, but I must admit that the idea of farm raising predators (any predators) to hunt for sport is a very different thing to me (and I guarantee others on this forum) than impala, buffalo or other cloven hoof game. Maybe because man is a predator too? Flame away.....

SCI and DSC agree with that sentiment completely. So do I. I think there is a difference between a pheasant or chicken or chicken egg for that matter and a lion. Most people do. It is a little more complicated when comparing to ungulates, but again, there is some clear difference in most people's minds between a steer and a lion. The danger thing is real and is a difference between pheasants and lions, but so is getting in the ring with a Spanish fighting bull.

There is a pretty terrible Mark Sullivan video out there where he hunts a CBL. He and his PH, who much of the time looks like one of those American pilots in a Hanoi POW video, track a released lion. They catch up with him and in stentorian tones Sullivan decides it is not the lion's day to die as the camera pans in close on the beasts snarling face - maybe he refused to charge? . The next day, they promptly picked up the tracks again and shoot him.

So, I will never hunt a lion. I won't spend the resources to hunt one in a wilderness area and have no desire to hunt one in an enclosure. I also won't fly to New Zealand (or drive an hour into the Texas Hill Country) to shoot a red stag behind a fence, but love trying to walk down a far lesser free range animal in Argentina. If I am visiting a trophy room, and the lion story starts out with "there I was in the Limpopo ..." then I'll move on to fix myself another drink. To me it is the same as shooting a hippo or croc in a stock pond. More power to all of you who are not conflicted.

 

[Hunt anything]

SCI and DSC agree with that sentiment completely. So do I. I think there is a difference between a pheasant or chicken or chicken egg for that matter and a lion. Most people do. It is a little more complicated when comparing to ungulates, but again, there is some clear difference in most people's minds between a steer and a lion. The danger thing is real and is a difference between pheasants and lions, but so is getting in the ring with a Spanish fighting bull.

There is a pretty terrible Mark Sullivan video out there where he hunts a CBL. He and his PH, who much of the time looks like one of those American pilots in a Hanoi POW video, track a released lion. They catch up with him and in stentorian tones Sullivan decides it is not the lion's day to die as the camera pans in close on the beasts snarling face - maybe he refused to charge? . The next day, they promptly picked up the tracks again and shoot him.

So, I will never hunt a lion. I won't spend the resources to hunt one in a wilderness area and have no desire to hunt one in an enclosure. I also won't fly to New Zealand (or drive an hour into the Texas Hill Country) to shoot a red stag behind a fence, but love trying to walk down a far lesser free range animal in Argentina. If I am visiting a trophy room, and the lion story starts out with "there I was in the Limpopo ..." then I'll move on to fix myself another drink. To me it is the same as shooting a hippo or croc in a stock pond. More power to all of you who are not conflicted.

Very well stated, you were able to communicate the way a lot of people on here feel in plane no BS language!

 

[revturbo9967]

SCI and DSC agree with that sentiment completely. So do I. I think there is a difference between a pheasant or chicken or chicken egg for that matter and a lion. Most people do. It is a little more complicated when comparing to ungulates, but again, there is some clear difference in most people's minds between a steer and a lion. The danger thing is real and is a difference between pheasants and lions, but so is getting in the ring with a Spanish fighting bull.

There is a pretty terrible Mark Sullivan video out there where he hunts a CBL. He and his PH, who much of the time looks like one of those American pilots in a Hanoi POW video, track a released lion. They catch up with him and in stentorian tones Sullivan decides it is not the lion's day to die as the camera pans in close on the beasts snarling face - maybe he refused to charge? . The next day, they promptly picked up the tracks again and shoot him.

So, I will never hunt a lion. I won't spend the resources to hunt one in a wilderness area and have no desire to hunt one in an enclosure. I also won't fly to New Zealand (or drive an hour into the Texas Hill Country) to shoot a red stag behind a fence, but love trying to walk down a far lesser free range animal in Argentina. If I am visiting a trophy room, and the lion story starts out with "there I was in the Limpopo ..." then I'll move on to fix myself another drink. To me it is the same as shooting a hippo or croc in a stock pond. More power to all of you who are not conflicted.

I knew crocs were shot in stock ponds, but hippo too? How do they raise hippos to be released?

 

[AimSmall]

How accurate of a representation might this be?

 

[Scanos]

Interesting discussion. It is too bad this subject seemed to cause some to break out the soap boxes. CBL would not be my cup of tea. But, I can understand the attraction to the hunting method ie tracking. I for one despise sitting in a blind. I have spent too much of my life hunting from blinds and I have lost all affection for it. Shooting baited animals does not hold an attraction for me. From my perspective the challenge lies with the PH who has to out wit the cat with the right bait, right location, blind setup etc. With that in mind since Botswana is out, where can someone find a wild lion hunt conducted by tracking? I am sure some hunters with the resources would be interested in experiencing a wild lion hunt conducted via tracking. I sure would.