Lion hunting SA

[HankBuck]

And consequently, pheasant population is dropping?

Mark, Not just dropping - completely gone/extinct in some Staes like NJ, NY, Basiclly gone on the East coast, severely reduced in Kansas. South Dakota remains one of the last strong holds. They’re aren’t enough hawks, owls, fox, coyote in the World to explain it - and it’s happen in the last 30 years.....even on land where the habitat has Not changed - large tracks of park land in NJ where Hunting was Never allowed. Find the “answer” and correct it - be a Hero !!

 

[Altitude sickness]

I think we all own a little of the hypocrisy.

I’m a member of SCI.

SCI gives awards for animals shot inside of enclosures.

Boone and Crocket and Pope and Young call those out as not being fair chase.

Should we all demand SCI stop recognizing fenced hunts. Be it rabbit or rook. Elk or pheasant. Pigeon or Zebra.

Remember, the zealots think we are all barbarians.

Thinking that they will see a distinction because you don’t agree with killing an elephant. But killing a rabbit is ok, will ingratiate you with thier lot. And somehow your method of killing will be spared. Hilarious and naive.

I belong to traditional archery clubs that think any firearm hunting is not sporting enough. I make and hunt with Selfbows. Many primitive archery people think a fiberglass recurve is too easy.

Now many here will call them irrational and uninformed.

 

[HankBuck]

I fail to see how chasing a management cow buffalo around on 4,000 acres is a contradiction to baiting a lion or tracking one that's just been kicked out of a pen. That cow spent all of her twenty-five years living on that acreage, which is far from a "pen," and I didn't shoot her over bait. The hunt involved some genuine stalking of animals that were genuinely wary. There is no contradiction and you only make yourself look foolish trying to make one up.

Ontario, you’re right there is a difference and any animal that lived most of its life inside a fenced in large acreage enclosure adapts to that environment, must find its own food, water etc.. I think what many members oppose is the fact there is “a Fence” regardless of size and that adds some level of “control” to the hunt. One operator of a very large fenced hunting operation told me that “the most important part of the operation is ‘The Fence’ - without it we cannot completely manage our trophy animals”. The Fence is also expensive, must be patrolled, checked, and maintained. Once inside that fence, if you have 1000s of acres, hunters can forget about the fence and concentrate on the game - which do act similar or identical to free ranging animals.....the difference is that they can only range “so far”. These operations are very popular in the U.S. too especially in Texas where non native animals roam enclosed and provide a cost effective way to fill a trophy room with “exotics”. I have friends that love it because they are 100% successful and that’s how they measure their hunt enjoyment, one friend also has limited physical abilities. It has No appeal to me but I understand why many like it.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I don’t think a single person who has criticized cbl in this thread has done so because of a fence being involved (in that it’s the core issue). It does not matter if we’re talking 300 acres or 300,000 acres..

The criticism comes from how the lion is raised and then the time period between its release and when it is hunted. That and the fact that they aren’t being raised and released to establish healthy populations/prides which means there is no conservation value.

People are trying very hard to muddy the waters here. And using the same tired old arguments to do it.

 

[HankBuck]

Wake up. It was a management hunt. Do you know what those are? This cow was 25 years old. She hadn't calved in four years and lost her last two. Drought conditions were hard on her and the rest of the herd. She was in tough shape but still able to keep up with the herd ... for the time being. Look at her in the photo. No meat on her hips or withers. Her days were obviously numbered. I have no ethical issues putting her down. That's what it was supposed to be anyway. Turned out to be a rather exciting hunt. Difficult finding the herd. Suddenly in the thick stuff we were right in the middle of them. Literally. No chance of picking her out. Then we caught them crossing an opening to another forest and I frontal shot her through the heart at 110 yards. After she was down the herd bull came for us ... three times. Yeah, it was JUST a management hunt. But it was interesting. And genuinely exciting. Much more than I expected.

Ontario, sounds like fun to me - making a good shot, on DG, under tough conditions is difficult .....No matter where you are hunting

 

[HankBuck]

I don’t think a single person who has criticized cbl in this thread has done so because of a fence being involved (in that it’s the core issue). It does not matter if we’re talking 300 acres or 300,000 acres..

The criticism comes from how the lion is raised and then the time period between its release and when it is hunted. That and the fact that they aren’t being raised and released to establish healthy populations/prides which means there is no conservation value.

People are trying very hard to muddy the waters here. And using the same tired old arguments to do it.

Wishful thinker, Maybe you are right, I haven’t talked directly to many people that have gone on — or passed up - CBL hunts....so My opinion doesn’t mean much.....I should go back to “pheasants” because I’ve got experience with them!!

 

[mark-hunter]

Mark, Not just dropping - completely gone/extinct in some Staes like NJ, NY, Basiclly gone on the East coast, severely reduced in Kansas.

Very sad, to hear this!

 

[Altitude sickness]

I see both sides of this discussion. And feel we should be able to debate and defend our individual and group logic.

Remember that standing behind all of us is a person or group that believes that our ethics and methods are not up to their standards.

That doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t disagree or debate.

 

[Philip Glass]

Sorry, but I am really unable to wrap my head around shooting anything over bait as "exhilarating." Guess I should give it a try ... nah ... I don't see that happening.

People who say "I wouldn't hunt this or I wouldnt hunt that" are not real hunters Or they are dishonest and just can't afford the aforementioned hunt or possibly afraid of it somehow.
They have a narrow lane where they are comfortable and that is fine. We hear about these guys who go out west every year and just camp and never shoot anything and are happy. They sit around the camp fire and remark that they would never go to Africa to hunt. "No not me!" Then one in the group ventures to the Dark Continent and we know what happens next!
I suggest getting out of your lane and go bait for something lesser like hyena or even bushpigs. You will see the strategy and the work that goes in to try to get a split second opportunity at that animal. Then maybe leopard, but that is a difficult hunt and can seriously try your patience. I can tell you as A life long Hunter, trapper, and rancher that my lion hunt was absolutely indescribable. You can see this portrayed in Trophy the film. I describe it as the hunters Everest.

 

[Philip Glass]

If I was blind (and I'm half way there) I don't think I could find a way to see shooting anything over bait as exilerating. How can anyone get excited blasting a bear chewing on a blue plastic barrel full of donuts? Some guys do, but I couldn't.

Same guys who lure a lion to bait and shoot it will condemn someone else for tracking down one released from a pen. In my opinion that's the pot calling the kettle black.

Hunters should not criticize other hunters. As long as it is legal then everyone needs to mind their own business. Otherwise you are a tool of the antis!

 

[Hunt anything]

People who say "I wouldn't hunt this or I wouldnt hunt that" are not real hunters Or they are dishonest and just can't afford the aforementioned hunt or possibly afraid of it somehow.
They have a narrow lane where they are comfortable and that is fine. We hear about these guys who go out west every year and just camp and never shoot anything and are happy. They sit around the camp fire and remark that they would never go to Africa to hunt. "No not me!" Then one in the group ventures to the Dark Continent and we know what happens next!
I suggest getting out of your lane and go bait for something lesser like hyena or even bushpigs. You will see the strategy and the work that goes in to try to get a split second opportunity at that animal. Then maybe leopard, but that is a difficult hunt and can seriously try your patience. I can tell you as A life long Hunter, trapper, and rancher that my lion hunt was absolutely indescribable. You can see this portrayed in Trophy the film. I describe it as the hunters Everest.

So me having no desire to hunt an ostrich, lion or a walrus for that matter doesn’t make me a “real hunter” ? I normally agree with you Philip but on this one I have to disagree with respect of course. All of the above hunts I could afford if I set my mind to it.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Any time you have almost a 100% kill ratio. You have a slam dunk hunt or one helluva a PH in a fantastic lion area.

Years ago I was accompanying a first time buffalo hunter from the states to Zim. He had bought a very low dollar 3 species RSA hunt just outside of joburg so we stayed at the Ranch, but he had no desire to kill anything so we just kind of bummed around the ranch. At some point we ended up in the predator raising pen area.
The PH was telling us that, that evening one of the vice presidents of xxxxx cola was arriving and his daughter was shooting a very regal black main Lion the next morning, but they had to leave by ten to catch xxxxx cola corporate jet. She got her lion she must have been a helluva a tracker!

By the way the client was county predator control for Rio Blanco, Colo.. He had some pretty strong opinions of how things were done in RSA.

To each their own.

Lon

 

[Rare Breed]

Had only I read this before my second marriage! Would have saved me a lot of money. Could have afforded the wild lion hunt.

okay, i don’t care who you are now that’s funny!!!!!!!!!

 

[TOBY458]

So now that we've established that anti CBL hunters have no respect for those who have hunted CBL. Will there be separate tables at the DSC banquet?

 

[Rare Breed]

Hunters should not criticize other hunters. As long as it is legal then everyone needs to mind their own business. Otherwise you are a tool of the antis!

+10!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

So now that we've established that anti CBL hunters have no respect for those who have hunted CBL. Will there be separate tables at the DSC banquet?

Toby having hunted with you and shared a campfire, love your sense of humor!!!!! i think T-Shirts are in order…CBL versus non CBL

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Hunters should not criticize other hunters. As long as it is legal then everyone needs to mind their own business. Otherwise you are a tool of the antis!

If you hunt cbl you are a tool of the antis

 

[HankBuck]

If you hunt cbl you are a tool of the antis

WishfulThinker AND Phillip Glass —- Why so hostile towards each other over a “thread” ? where there are No Answers ....only opinions. Everyone seems to have some valid points and provides a reasoning & logic for their points of view. What I like about this forum is the tolerance most seem to have for different views. Some of my views might be uninformed, lack experience, or even be stupid but at least I rarely get called out for that.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

WishfulThinker AND Phillip Glass —- Why so hostile towards each other over a “thread” ? where there are No Answers ....only opinions. Everyone seems to have some valid points and provides a reasoning & logic for their points of view. What I like about this forum is the tolerance most seem to have for different views. Some of my views might be uninformed, lack experience, or even be stupid but at least I rarely get called out for that.

Respectfully, there are answers or rather answers should be decided upon by organizations and hunters in general. Most hunters and most organizations have already condemned such practices. CBL is not defendable.

Frankly, I would expect someone who has built up a persona over the years as someone who supposedly cares deeply about conservation and as an adviser of sorts to new safari goers to not take the “as long as it’s legal it’s ok stance”.

 

[DieJager]

The Christmas spirit didn't last long this year