Is this normal behavior by a Safari outfitter?

[franzfmdavis]

I don’t understand your question in the first paragraph. Are you asking as a hunter or as if an outfitter? Where did your $800 amount come from? $25k? Are you adding up fees for all four hunters?

I was referring to the conversation that started the chain of discussions that led to this issue.

I had mentioned in a subsequent post above that I had reached out to the outfitter a few days ago to ask whether my brother-in-law and I could each add a cape Buffalo, a giraffe and a zebra in addition to the other animals in our basic package. Based on the trophy price list they had previously provided this would result in an additional $25,000 or more in trophy fees for the outfitter. Obviously not all of those fees would be profit, and I do not have any clue what percentage of the total trophy fees for the profit margin, but i imagine that the outfitters business plan is to offer a “cheaper” package with the hope/plan to make up the “loss” with add on animals. This conversation is what led to the outfitter telling me that the daily rate we had previously been told for the extra night was no longer valid. They did not reach out to me to notify me of that - it was just brought up as an ancillary point.

 

[franzfmdavis]

This fella is not booked with a charter flight and export/treatment of trophies is always exclusive of the daily rate or safari operator's costs. This is about the operator charging an exorbitant rate for ONE extra day. I'm sorry, but I have a really, really hard time believing the operators costs have gone up that much since the original booking. If there is a spot for these four to stay, then outfitter should accommodate. If he is fully booked up, which I find hard to believe given the way this outfit is set up (i.e. brigade size mess hall), then perhaps that MIGHT be a different story. Then these clients should just be told to spend a night in town at a hotel and do some shopping.

I wouldn't give that sorry outfit +$400/day for plains game no matter what. Never. Not for one day or a hundred. It's not the way I hunt. And I have seen enough reports on here to know that outfit genuinely is NOT interested in return customers ... except for the really big tippers. You know, the ones with $1K safari hats.

Im going to have to upgrade my hat I bet Gucci makes something that could work?

 

[franzfmdavis]

A few bits of thought based on the details here and various inputs:

1. Outfitter should absolutely honor their quoted prices when shown in writing back to them. At the bare minimum, if it was truly an error in quote, apologize and explain the situation and then try to amicably resolve to Clients satisfaction.

2. $180 USD per hunter, especially as a Group of 4+, is likely sufficient to relatively cover operator costs of personnel for 1 add on day of PG hunting in RSA. A year or so ago, that was a common price point to see for regular day rates. Current prices are generally closer to $300-400 per day for PG, often a bit higher for DG. ... if OP was asking for a week extra at lower rate, it would be a much different conversation than 1 day, especially since he has that 1 day at $180 in writing as stated price.

3. I adamantly disagree that OP is trying to "scam" the outfitter for an extra day that would cause outfitter to lose money. He has specifically not posted Outfitter or hunt details and left it vague to try and hide the identity/name of who he's booked with.
3a. If $220 is the difference in outfitter making/losing money on a (presumably) 5-10 day hunt, the Outfitter is already losing money and should have never agreed to the hunt in the first place.

4. If this is a package hunt with animals and hunt costs combined for a set price, I probably wouldn't let this 1 day disagreement dissuade me from going. As mentioned by others, spend the extra day elsewhere and continue on. ... if it is a package of hunt cost only, with trophy fees to be added at then-current pricing, I would still go, but my "hit list" would get a lot smaller depending on what those trophy prices are and what my hunt budget is.

5. The most important thing I can offer is to not let this ruin your hunt. If it will, you should try to recoup any deposits you can and/or walk away and plan a different hunt.

I hope this works out for you. Let us know what the Owner says, or if you can come to an amicable solution.

I won’t let it ruin my hunt and actually even if I was not able to go on this hunt and lost all my money I am still so excited to have been bitten by African hunting bug! I think my wife is getting sick of hearing about it, and I have focused all of my extra resources on guns and gear, but its been a blast and it has gripped my two year old as well who runs around the house shooting “dagga boy” shadows!

This forum is the only social media that I am on and its been great fun and very informative!

 

[Scott CWO]

I was referring to the conversation that started the chain of discussions that led to this issue.

I had mentioned in a subsequent post above that I had reached out to the outfitter a few days ago to ask whether my brother-in-law and I could each add a cape Buffalo, a giraffe and a zebra in addition to the other animals in our basic package. Based on the trophy price list they had previously provided this would result in an additional $25,000 or more in trophy fees for the outfitter. Obviously not all of those fees would be profit, and I do not have any clue what percentage of the total trophy fees for the profit margin, but i imagine that the outfitters business plan is to offer a “cheaper” package with the hope/plan to make up the “loss” with add on animals. This conversation is what led to the outfitter telling me that the daily rate we had previously been told for the extra night was no longer valid. They did not reach out to me to notify me of that - it was just brought up as an ancillary point.

Gotcha. Well, you haven’t even heard back from the owner yet so I’m not sure why you started this thread in the first place. Perhaps he will honor the one-sided deal or you can come to a compromise.

 

[franzfmdavis]

Gotcha. Well, you haven’t even heard back from the owner yet so I’m not sure why you started this thread in the first place. Perhaps he will honor the one-sided deal or you can come to a compromise.

I have explained the reasons why I posted the question in my initial and subsequent comments.

Im not sure I understand the reference to a “one sided” deal, but it doesn't matter.

Overall, it appears that this discussion has offended you, so perhaps you should move on to other threads.

 

[steve white]

I'm feeling a lot of love for CWO's posts--we must empathize with the outfitter at times if it is reasonable--given $180 per day, IT IS REASONABLE. I would not fear other changes to charges AND I would not want an outfitter to strictly give me only what he thought I had coming for the price paid. He could lose enthusiasm for helping you have a great hunt if you get stingy. I want the PH to be happy, and the hunt to be all we can enthusiastically make it to be--is the way to get that to nit-pick? Be a good client, let him be a good outfitter. It takes both.
FWIW, I would take all the extra animals you had planned--it is far more expensive to pay for a whole nother trip to get them! Have a blast and don't spoil it by trying to squeeze blood from a turnip.

 

[franzfmdavis]

I'm feeling a lot of love for CWO's posts--we must empathize with the outfitter at times if it is reasonable--given $180 per day, IT IS REASONABLE. I would not fear other changes to charges AND I would not want an outfitter to strictly give me only what he thought I had coming for the price paid. He could lose enthusiasm for helping you have a great hunt if you get stingy. I want the PH to be happy, and the hunt to be all we can enthusiastically make it to be--is the way to get that to nit-pick? Be a good client, let him be a good outfitter. It takes both.
FWIW, I would take all the extra animals you had planned--it is far more expensive to pay for a whole nother trip to get them! Have a blast and don't spoil it by trying to squeeze blood from a turnip.

I agree with a lot of your points, but I do not understand why you think the outfitters actions are reasonable? This is not to say that I am correct, but only that I cannot understand it.

I posted this question in part to make sure I was not the one with unreasonable expectations. Many who commented in this thread seem to agree with my initial reaction, but some do not.

I would genuinely appreciate if you could more thoroughly explain your position (if you have the time and inclination) so that I can take it “under advisement” as the judges used to say in court.

 

[Ridge Runner]

This was an al-a-cart hunt, he said that’s a great animal do you want it. He did and missed. The PH was unaware of the policy on this property and was surprised as well.

Thanks for the clarity.
This is a whole different meaning to missed shot.

During a late night discussion I asked the consortium of PHs about clients missing animals. And I reflected back to the answer I was given.

Back in the day we watched BUCKMASTERS, IIRC. When we had deer camp, if a hunter shoots at and misses a deer he lost his shirt tail (gets it cut/hacked off by the hunter who witnessed the miss or by the hunter who drew the short straw, or he gets a his hat ventilated, the hunter hangs his hat on the target board and watches his hat being shot full of holes by everyone in camp.

 

[Scott CWO]

A few bits of thought based on the details here and various inputs:

1. Outfitter should absolutely honor their quoted prices when shown in writing back to them. At the bare minimum, if it was truly an error in quote, apologize and explain the situation and then try to amicably resolve to Clients satisfaction.

2. $180 USD per hunter, especially as a Group of 4+, is likely sufficient to relatively cover operator costs of personnel for 1 add on day of PG hunting in RSA. A year or so ago, that was a common price point to see for regular day rates. Current prices are generally closer to $300-400 per day for PG, often a bit higher for DG. ... if OP was asking for a week extra at lower rate, it would be a much different conversation than 1 day, especially since he has that 1 day at $180 in writing as stated price.

3. I adamantly disagree that OP is trying to "scam" the outfitter for an extra day that would cause outfitter to lose money. He has specifically not posted Outfitter or hunt details and left it vague to try and hide the identity/name of who he's booked with.
3a. If $220 is the difference in outfitter making/losing money on a (presumably) 5-10 day hunt, the Outfitter is already losing money and should have never agreed to the hunt in the first place.

4. If this is a package hunt with animals and hunt costs combined for a set price, I probably wouldn't let this 1 day disagreement dissuade me from going. As mentioned by others, spend the extra day elsewhere and continue on. ... if it is a package of hunt cost only, with trophy fees to be added at then-current pricing, I would still go, but my "hit list" would get a lot smaller depending on what those trophy prices are and what my hunt budget is.

5. The most important thing I can offer is to not let this ruin your hunt. If it will, you should try to recoup any deposits you can and/or walk away and plan a different hunt.

I hope this works out for you. Let us know what the Owner says, or if you can come to an amicable solution.

Your #2 could not be correct. $180 for a PH for each hunter plus trackers, cooks, skinners, etc… is too low, even in SA to cover staffing. Then the outfitter is also just supposed to eat the costs of food, fuel, lodging, cleaning, etc…?

I get it that the admin folks quoted too low and that is their fault but let’s not disregard costs.