Is Blaser Trying To Price Themselves Out Of The American Market???

[Tundra Tiger]

"I just don't see any use for one hunting big game in most of North or South America or Africa."

Each to their own - whatever floats your boat, truly. But I am squarely in the camp cited above. Personal opinion: I think they look hideous, and I have not noticed that hunting without one has kept me from killing anything over the course of my life. Recoil doesn't bother me, and there are other ways to mitigate sound. The only possible advantage I see - and it's not for me for sure - is reduced recoil. I have a daughter who came into this world with Herb's Palsy. Recoil bothers her. If I ever get her to go to Africa with me someday, I plan for her to use a camp gun with a can; I know it will help her.

I guess I'm just in the wrong thread altogether. I'm not likely to be buying a Blaser, and I won't be buying any cans. I don't even like rifles that are threaded. I guess I should go find another thread to read.

 

[akrifleman]

Sigh. I said that I own them. I even posted a picture of my DDM4 so equipped. I will also agree a lot of the cheaper massed produced rifles are now threaded - anything to sell one more. I just don't see any use for one hunting big game in most of North or South America or Africa. I can't imagine having one on a rifle I am carrying while trying to walk down a buffalo or eland, or climbing three or four ridges looking for an elk or muley, or hauling one up a mountain after a sheep or a goat. I am quite confident I am pretty good company in that opinion.

You didn't answer my question @Daisy. How many different outfitters, PHs, and countries have you experienced in Africa? If not personal experience, what do you base your assertions upon?

My disagreement with you is that "most" PH's use them. I agreed with you that they seem to have become common in much of the South African Lodge hunting environment. I admitted that I have rarely hunted that environment - most recently was four years ago (though neither my PH nor those who worked for him used cans ) - and I am unlikely to do so again (its a fence thing). But there is a whole lot of Africa besides the RSA. You could travel a lot of Mozambique, Northern Namibia, Zambia, Tanzania and Zimbabwe and search a very long time before finding a suppressor in use.

I think this is pretty accurate. I don't even think most SA PHs use them, but they are clearly becoming more common. Reminds me of when the iPhone was no longer an AT&T exclusive. That is to say, no longer a phenomenon, but not ubiquitous like today's smartphones.

I personally have QD versions for hunting rifles, and they work quite well for some hunting. I sure as hell wouldn't want to traipse through an Alder thicket with a 30" of barrel and suppressor. But, a ton of hunting in this country is in areas where there are a lot of people. The average deer or hog lease in the south isn't that far from roads and houses. A suppressor from a stand is the bees knees. I like it from a bear stand as well, as your ears aren't ringing after you fire, and you can hear the bear better. I don't think its great for every situation.

 

[Red Leg]

I think this is pretty accurate. I don't even think most SA PHs use them, but they care clearly becoming more common. Reminds me of when the iPhone was no longer an AT&T exclusive. That is to say, no longer a phenomenon, but not ubiquitous like today's smartphones.

I personally have QD versions for hunting rifles, and they work quite well for some hunting. I sure as hell wouldn't want to traipse through an Alder thicket with a 30" of barrel and suppressor. But, a ton of hunting in this country is in areas where there are a lot of people. The average deer or hog lease in the south isn't that far from roads and houses. A suppressor from a stand is the bees knees. I like it from a bear stand as well, as your ears aren't ringing after you fire, and you can hear the bear better. I don't think its great for every situation.

I started to write exactly that. It would be hard to argue about the use of a suppressor from a stand in the Southeast and even parts of the Midwest - for whitetail. Black bear over bait would be a similar situation. That environment is not unlike my use of one from a stand at night on feral hogs. Though I don't use one stand hunting for deer here in Texas.

 

[Doug3006]

All the caveats: I am just one observer. I live in Missouri, a state that’s never been accused of being on the leading edge of any trend. I am a frequent visitor at my club’s rifle range…our club has a couple of hundred members…but I’m not what I consider an expert marksman or a die hard shooter. I hunt a lot in Missouri but on private land for the express purpose of NOT seeing other hunters or their hardware.

All that said, I have never seen a suppressor at the range or in the field. I was in SA last year and didn’t see one there either.

 

[Foxi]

I have not hunted with a R8 in the UK, but all the ones I have used on the Continent were unthreaded. In the States the vast majority of threaded rifles are for muzzle brakes. Suppressors are difficult to own legally and are thus very rare on hunting rifles. Though I am sure they are employed, I have also never used or even seen a suppressor in use on the Continent.

times have already changed.
None of the young hunters today take a rifle without a thread ( in Germany).
Than a suppressor(allowed since a few years) and a nightsight(allowed on boars,but who cares for other animals).It is standard now.
The big and expensive binoculars nobody buys today.

 

[UpNorthMI]

Well it seems as if we have moved this thread to suppressor usage!

I think the use of suppressors for hunting is in large part a terrain and culture issue. In the UK and Europe a lot of our hunting is on much smaller areas of ground, very often you may have private homes, farms, horses or cattle around within less than a mile or even several hundred yards! We also want to be much more discrete with our sport and not draw attention to ourselves. Whilst hunting may have long traditions, it is typically not a sport of the masses. Hunting is all typically on private ground, landowner permission is required and is easier to be obtained if you are reducing noise.

Most of our US shooting is in much more wide open spaces where noise is never such an issue.

The availability and cost of suppressors are very different to the US, a nice .22 suppressor costs around $100 and a top quality .30 cal suppressor is about $400 in the UK, having purchased similar products in Michigan and having to pay the tax stamp the comparable costs are $500+ and $1,000+.

In the UK and Europe you are already dealing with the police for gun ownership, it is easy to deal with them about suppressors and ownership is encouraged and expected with hunting rifles. In the US suppressor ownership has not been encouraged and you need to jump through a few expensive hoops to own a suppressor.

In the UK there is no hunting by any form of tag or permit that limits the number of deer to be shot, a lot of my deer hunting was involving deer culling, a suppressor makes this task a little easier by reducing the muzzle blast noise, the deer don't run quite as far or hard, we would often shoot 4 or more deer out of a group in several seconds. In the US you tend to typically shoot one animal at a time in a limited season, In the UK we just about shoot deer all year round, there are different seasons for male and female deer shooting.

In the UK we do a lot of night shooting for rabbit and fox, again this can often involve small areas of land near homes and farms, in all cases this type of shooting is done with a suppressor, which allows this to go on with a little discretion.

In Michigan I hunt my 350 acres of northern woodland with crossbow and rifle, few of my neighbors believe in shooting whitetail does, we are over run with deer, the crossbow does a nice quiet job but during our main 2 weeks of gun season and during our later extended gun season for does, I find adding a suppressor can often lead to multiple deer encounters during a morning or afternoon. We are pretty much on unlimited doe permits now.

While I'm very pro suppressor and come from a long history of hunting with them, I'm not putting a suppressor on my rifle for an out West Elk Hunt, a Scotland red stag hunt or my upcoming trip to South Africa because they are not situations where a suppressor provides any great pay back and I have to lug it around on the end of the rife.

Most suppressors in the UK and Europe are what I call 50% over the barrel, if it is 8" long it will only add 4" to your overall gun length. This design does not seem to be the main design for US suppressors, we should adopt this type of design to balance out the weight and cut down on suppressed gun length.

Still I would like to see Blaser sell their barrels pre threaded in the US as they do in other places and let the users decide on muzzle break or suppressor usage. Many lower cost volume gun manufacturers are included a threaded barrel as standard in the US these days. I predict that hunting with suppressors will gain some more popularity for serious hunters in the US as time moves on. I certainly appreciate it will never be a standard for most of the shooting population.

 

[smp005]

Suppressors are rarely used by hunters in the US. The permit process alone takes half a year, and the suppressors are themselves quite expensive. Secondly, for normal big game hunting, they are an unnecessary incumbrance to an otherwise perfectly balanced rifle. I hate them in that role. Where they do come into there own here is controlling animals such as feral hogs where a suppressor may allow the targeting of multiple animals - particularly at night with a thermal. They are particularly well suited in the minds of most here employed on an AR platform. I should also note sound abatement is not generally a consideration or concern.

The typical hunting rifle that is threaded in this country is threaded with a muzzle brake in mind and not a suppressor.

Home defense firearms are also often equipped with a suppressor. This is a Daniel Defense in 5.56.

But on a hunting rifle? I personally despise the things in that role almost as much as brake.

View attachment 587340

The only real hunting application where I like using my suppressors is predator hunting and groundhog hunting.. With coyotes the reduced muzzle blast often keeps them around just long enough for a second or third shot..

 

[Red Leg]

Just to throw a little more cold water on the notion that almost everyone uses them in Europe, I have hunted fairly regularly in Spain and Austria over the last decade and a bit. I have hunted Germany extensively, but that is quite dated. Were I a typical small revier holder in Germany today where my principle hunting was from a high seat for roe deer, wild boar, and red fox, a suppressor would make a lot of sense. But there is a lot of Europe that has far more in common with the American West and Middle West, than a small revier in Germany.

For instance, I have hunted ibex, chamois, wild boar, red and roe deer fairly extensively in Spain and Austria. Traveling with firearms to Europe and playing tourist afterwards can be complicated so I almost always use a rented rifle. I have never been handed one with a suppressor. Three quarters of those rifles were R93's or R8's and I do not recall any with a threaded muzzle but it is possible a cap was in place that I missed. But like the American West, I can't imagine maneuvering a rifle all day in the terrain of the Gredos, Beceite, Pyrenees, or Alps with a suppressor on the end of it.

We and another couple will be back in Spain in a couple of months. I'll be using my host's rifle. It is a perfectly balanced R8 with professional success stock carrying Zeiss optics in .270 WSM and without a suppressor. My hunting companion will be using a R8 300 Win Mag also without a suppressor. Year after next I'll be in Hungary using a Mauser M12 also in .300 Win Mag. It too will have no suppressor.

 

[Daisy]

I started to write exactly that. It would be hard to argue about the use of a suppressor from a stand in the Southeast and even parts of the Midwest - for whitetail. Black bear over bait would be a similar situation. That environment is not unlike my use of one from a stand at night on feral hogs. Though I don't use one stand hunting for deer here in Texas.

That makes sense Red. I do a lot of hunting in southeast.

 

[Daisy]

Well it seems as if we have moved this thread to suppressor usage!

I think the use of suppressors for hunting is in large part a terrain and culture issue. In the UK and Europe a lot of our hunting is on much smaller areas of ground, very often you may have private homes, farms, horses or cattle around within less than a mile or even several hundred yards! We also want to be much more discrete with our sport and not draw attention to ourselves. Whilst hunting may have long traditions, it is typically not a sport of the masses. Hunting is all typically on private ground, landowner permission is required and is easier to be obtained if you are reducing noise.

Most of our US shooting is in much more wide open spaces where noise is never such an issue.

The availability and cost of suppressors are very different to the US, a nice .22 suppressor costs around $100 and a top quality .30 cal suppressor is about $400 in the UK, having purchased similar products in Michigan and having to pay the tax stamp the comparable costs are $500+ and $1,000+.

In the UK and Europe you are already dealing with the police for gun ownership, it is easy to deal with them about suppressors and ownership is encouraged and expected with hunting rifles. In the US suppressor ownership has not been encouraged and you need to jump through a few expensive hoops to own a suppressor.

In the UK there is no hunting by any form of tag or permit that limits the number of deer to be shot, a lot of my deer hunting was involving deer culling, a suppressor makes this task a little easier by reducing the muzzle blast noise, the deer don't run quite as far or hard, we would often shoot 4 or more deer out of a group in several seconds. In the US you tend to typically shoot one animal at a time in a limited season, In the UK we just about shoot deer all year round, there are different seasons for male and female deer shooting.

In the UK we do a lot of night shooting for rabbit and fox, again this can often involve small areas of land near homes and farms, in all cases this type of shooting is done with a suppressor, which allows this to go on with a little discretion.

In Michigan I hunt my 350 acres of northern woodland with crossbow and rifle, few of my neighbors believe in shooting whitetail does, we are over run with deer, the crossbow does a nice quiet job but during our main 2 weeks of gun season and during our later extended gun season for does, I find adding a suppressor can often lead to multiple deer encounters during a morning or afternoon. We are pretty much on unlimited doe permits now.

While I'm very pro suppressor and come from a long history of hunting with them, I'm not putting a suppressor on my rifle for an out West Elk Hunt, a Scotland red stag hunt or my upcoming trip to South Africa because they are not situations where a suppressor provides any great pay back and I have to lug it around on the end of the rife.

Most suppressors in the UK and Europe are what I call 50% over the barrel, if it is 8" long it will only add 4" to your overall gun length. This design does not seem to be the main design for US suppressors, we should adopt this type of design to balance out the weight and cut down on suppressed gun length.

View attachment 587389

Still I would like to see Blaser sell their barrels pre threaded in the US as they do in other places and let the users decide on muzzle break or suppressor usage. Many lower cost volume gun manufacturers are included a threaded barrel as standard in the US these days. I predict that hunting with suppressors will gain some more popularity for serious hunters in the US as time moves on. I certainly appreciate it will never be a standard for most of the shooting population.

I use over the barrel suppressors. Add very little length.

 

[UpNorthMI]

I use over the barrel suppressors. Add very little length.

Are you in the US? If so can you share model and brand. It’s probably 5 years ago that I purchased US suppressors, I revisited the market about 2 years ago but was unable to find an over the barrel type model, maybe someone is making them now, if so I would like to buy one. The model I use on my UK Blaser R8 is a Stalon x108 Scandinavian I believe.

 

[Aaron N]

Yes. They do. In the US most serious shooters have embraced suppressors. That’s just a fact. See how many new rifles come threaded.

Not to stir the hornets nest, but wouldn’t a better argument be that most barrels are threaded now for brakes? I would say they are much more common than cans.

 

[CoElkHunter]

And when everyone starts talking about “that’s not how the old timers did it,” just know Teddy ran cans.

Teddy Roosevelt Ran a Suppressor on Three of His Hunting Rifles

The 26th US president loved to hunt. He also loved cutting-edge gear. Teddy Roosevelt ran a suppressor on at least three of his rifles.

freerangeamerican.us

I'll bet he didn't pay $1K+ (inflation adjusted) plus a tax stamp for each can?

 

[akrifleman]

Not to stir the hornets nest, but wouldn’t a better argument be that most barrels are threaded now for brakes? I would say they are much more common than cans.

A thread is a thread. Read the adverts and most say brake or suppressor ready with X by Y thread pitch. Brakes are quite common, suppressors are becoming common. No manufacturer is going to be like "We only support brakes!" So, no. They are threaded because customers want them, so they can use them as they desire. Obviously, more people current are going to use them for brakes, unless the law changes in the US. If it did, suddenly the popularity contest would change overnight. Most younger shooters just consider it future proofing, and don't make a deal of it.

 

[Aaron N]

A thread is a thread. Read the adverts and most say brake or suppressor ready with X by Y thread pitch. Brakes are quite common, suppressors are becoming common. No manufacturer is going to be like "We only support brakes!" So, no. They are threaded because customers want them, so they can use them as they desire. Obviously, more people current are going to use them for brakes, unless the law changes in the US. If it did, suddenly the popularity contest would change overnight.

You’re right yes. The poster made it seem that rifles were threaded because cans are so common, all I was pointing out was that brakes likely outnumber cans 10 to 1.

 

[akrifleman]

You’re right yes. The poster made it seem that rifles were threaded because cans are so common, all I was pointing out was that brakes likely outnumber cans 10 to 1.

At least... no doubts there.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Pretty much everywhere runs suppressors now. I don’t know any serious shooter (besides here) that don’t run suppressors. Just no downside I can find.

I bet you most camp rifles are supressed in Africa now too. Really behooves the PH to have them canned.

Well, I don't know anyone of the multitude of big game hunters I've hunted with here in Colorado/Wyoming that have suppressors? Probably due to the cost which is typically more than a rifle. The only ones I've seen here are on black guns and pistols at the range. I'd love to have one when the cost is about half of what they are now.

 

[CoElkHunter]

When a hash brown at McDonald's is $4 bucks, and it costs $20 each to eat there... I don't know why the price of beans & bullets is confusing anyone.

Try Taco Bell? Might be slightly cheaper? LOL

 

[akrifleman]

Try Taco Bell? Might be slightly cheaper? LOL

Man... I went there over the holidays and about had a heart attack. Back in my gyrenes days I could get tacos for like 29c and burritos for like 69c. Now a burrito is $5 and a single freaking taco is $1.75. And I'm just NOT that damn old.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Man... I went there over the holidays and about had a heart attack. Back in my gyrenes days I could get tacos for like 29c and burritos for like 69c. Now a burrito is $5 and a single freaking taco is $1.75. And I'm just NOT that damn old.

And their "burrito Supreme" NOW is about the size of a crepe! LOL