Hierarchy Of Double Rifles - Where does the Verney-Carron Fit In?

[ingwe500nitroexpress]

@ingwe500nitroexpress At SCI i was able to handle the 89B and it feels much better than the 88. You were correct.

I was texting with Chris during the show as I couldn’t make it. Dealing with some medical stuff with my kids, and have shifted my entire calendar year with Africa back, but Monday I’ll be calling to lock in the new .600 I’m going to have them make. Good guys on that team. Top notch service. In some instances, better than I’ve had with Holland and Purdey and Westley. Having them make me a “clone” of Sullivan and Ivan’s .577 sidelocks. Something about those sidelocks on that gross box frame speaks to me. So I’ll have the 89b in a 500 that’s my workhorse at the moment and then the brute of the .600 . Some friends of mine who run .600s talked me into it, and I’ll part with an inherited Purdey that was my grandfathers, that is basically untouched since its inception, aside from being wiped down every month since the late 50s. A 11.5lb .577 is just not manageable for me, and I’m as far from recoil sensitive as it gets. Haha. Hope you had a nice interaction with those guys at Heym. They really did a stellar job with the 89b. Couldn’t have sold me an 88 but that English 89 ticks a lot of the boxes.

 

[ingwe500nitroexpress]

What's the price difference between a 88B and 89B these days?

Was this addressed to me? If so, sorry for the delay. I didn’t see it. The 89b just got the English treatment. A bit sleeker than the 88b as the 88 is geared much more towards the European (German ) doubles. They always feel very awkward in my hands. Like the Merkels. Weirdly balanced rifles more reminiscent of a drilling if you picked one up eyes closed. Much different angles and really conceptually a lot different from each other. 89 has English “lines” and angles, a differently shaped trigger guard, a bit longer I think. Visually, the most noticeable attribute would be the square backed receiver, certainly MUCH more English in aesthetic, and for me, I can’t stand that 88b scalloped receiver. The 89b is far more pleasing to my eye. Aside from that, I haven’t priced the 88 in a long time, but I know that the 89s are starting off more expensive with the same wood and engraving options etc next to each other, the 89 is more dough. If anyone is doubting one because they didn’t like the point and the handle of the 88, go check that 89b out. If you’re willing to spend 10k more than the Krieghoff, or the Chapuis, there is (to me) no safer bet than that 89. Above the Verneys for SURE, and I’ve handles a few very nice Thys rifles, but they just don’t seem to be in the same league as the English Heym. Cheers!

 

[ingwe500nitroexpress]

What's the price difference between a 88B and 89B these days?

Not too sure. The 89b is starting at 28k so after import and tax and all the nonsense just call it 30k to get your foot in the door.

 

[IvW]

Nowhere at the moment as they are closing down the sport hunting production...

 

[Daniel Cary]

Idk .. there isn't anything left.
VC, even Heym use to have builds not spoken for prior to DSC/SCI & % off display rifles.

Krieghoff, I believe can track one down for you asap.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Idk .. there isn't anything left.
VC, even Heym use to have builds not spoken for prior to DSC/SCI & % off display rifles.

Krieghoff, I believe can track one down for you asap.

A wealth of Verney Carron .. 2017.
Built to order know.

 

[Philip Glass]

Hi Rookhawk, thank you for weighing in on this. I presently own a BRNO 602 that started out as a .375 H&H, but was converted to a .404 Jeffery. It works very well, not pretty, but neither am I , so we make a good team together.
The reason for my interest in the V.C. in .450/.400 NE is that there will be one coming up for auction locally to me. I live in Canada, and to be able to source a double rifle of any maker or brand ranges anywhere from difficult to impossible. I follow the threads here on AHF with much interest, so wanted to get some opinions. To be honest, and this is purely academic to me at this point, I would really like to own a Heym 89B. I liked the sounds of the .450/.400 as it duplicated the performance of my .404 Jeffery with moderate recoil as well.

The .450/400 is a pleasure to shoot.

 

[Muskox]

I put Heym and Krieghoff about the same. Heym does a better job of marketing in the US and I think that impacts resale value if buying new. If buying used it doesn’t really matter. I believe a used krieghoff is the best value in double rifles.

I really enjoy hunting with a double, but it’s a challenge more than a need. If the budget is limited I would keep the bolt and use the money to hunt. If you have the extra $$ and you buy right on the used market there isn’t too much downside on the double market. You should be able to get most of your money back.

This!

Heym USA is a market giant. They do not have the high regard here in Europe that Krieghoff does.

Heym USA elevates their own line of propaganda.

Krieghoff is huge in Europe, they also have their own line of a propaganda here. There are a ton of German professional hunters in East Africa using Krieghoff rifles.

Krieghoff has a de-cocker, I don't think Heym has done this, they are more similar to British rifles.

Personally for me, I'd pick the Kreighoff in a 416/500 as a hunter and a 470 NE or 500 NE as a PH.

Sabatti is going to be rough.

Merkel has strange ergonomics.

Chapuis makes a good gun, they re the biggest or were the biggest double rifle maker in the world.

 

[Pondoro]

Krieghoff double rifles are probably the most widespread among PH´s and hunters all over Africa..

 

[Northern Shooter]

This!

Heym USA is a market giant. They do not have the high regard here in Europe that Krieghoff does.

Heym USA elevates their own line of propaganda.

Krieghoff is huge in Europe, they also have their own line of a propaganda here. There are a ton of German professional hunters in East Africa using Krieghoff rifles.

Krieghoff has a de-cocker, I don't think Heym has done this, they are more similar to British rifles.

Personally for me, I'd pick the Kreighoff in a 416/500 as a hunter and a 470 NE or 500 NE as a PH.

Sabatti is going to be rough.

Merkel has strange ergonomics.

Chapuis makes a good gun, they re the biggest or were the biggest double rifle maker in the world.

As someone who has only handled a Merkel, could you explain the strange ergonomics vs the other makes?

 

[sureshot375]

This!

Heym USA is a market giant. They do not have the high regard here in Europe that Krieghoff does.

Heym USA elevates their own line of propaganda.

Krieghoff is huge in Europe, they also have their own line of a propaganda here. There are a ton of German professional hunters in East Africa using Krieghoff rifles.

Krieghoff has a de-cocker, I don't think Heym has done this, they are more similar to British rifles.

Personally for me, I'd pick the Kreighoff in a 416/500 as a hunter and a 470 NE or 500 NE as a PH.

Sabatti is going to be rough.

Merkel has strange ergonomics.

Chapuis makes a good gun, they re the biggest or were the biggest double rifle maker in the world.

Krieghoff is much larger than Heym in the US… just not for double rifles.

They sell a ton of completion shotguns. They probably sell 1000 shotguns for every rifle they sell. They focus their marketing energy on their shotgun line. In contest the US importer for Heym devotes all his energy to marketing double rifles, and has done a fine job of it.

One benefit of this is that krieghoff sells enough guns in the US to have a full stable of gunsmiths in the US. Having your rifle serviced or even re regulated doesn’t require a trip back to Germany.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Mere curiosity if anyone has shot the 89 Light .. in 450/400? 9lbs.