Double rifle or bolt action?

[Kevin Peacocke]

I don’t think those that buy double rifles, custom hats, fine watches etc. need to justify their choices either. Nor be judged by calling those purchases extravagant.

One thing you fail to realize is that a purchase is extravagant only if one does not have the means to purchase it without it impacting their finances. For some paying $500 for a sushi dinner is no big deal, for others a $15 hamburger is highway robbery. It is all relative.

Correct. The operative word is appreciate, and to that I add thankful. Value lives in one, not on a price tag.

 

[Slider]

I just received my 500 Nitro back from JJ. The trigger Pull has beed adjusted to front trigger 5lb and rear trigger 5lb. Re-regulated with Federal 570 Factory Solids. PMR Red Dot attached. The Cost? The Price of a Very good Bolt Action Rifle.The Memorys are Priceless. Never mind the Original Cost of The Rifle to start with. I know one thing The Ele's don't have a chance!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

I just received my 500 Nitro back from JJ. The trigger Pull has beed adjusted to front trigger 5lb and rear trigger 5lb. Re-regulated with Federal 570 Factory Solids. PMR Red Dot attached. The Cost? The Price of a Very good Bolt Action Rifle.The Memorys are Priceless. Never mind the Original Cost of The Rifle to start with. I know one thing The Ele's don't have a chance!!!

Wow!!! Now that’s regulation!!!

 

[375Fox]

I just received my 500 Nitro back from JJ. The trigger Pull has beed adjusted to front trigger 5lb and rear trigger 5lb. Re-regulated with Federal 570 Factory Solids. PMR Red Dot attached. The Cost? The Price of a Very good Bolt Action Rifle.The Memorys are Priceless. Never mind the Original Cost of The Rifle to start with. I know one thing The Ele's don't have a chance!!!

I understand having the second trigger heavy, but why the tradition of having such a heavy front trigger on these rifles? I set my bolt action rifles at 2-2.5 lbs. How is the principle any different with a double on the first shot?

 

[Slider]

From the Factory the front trigger was 6lbs and rear trigger was 9lbs. JJ recomends 5lbs on both. That is what Holland and Holland recommends also. A starting point is half the weight of the rifle. Doubles are Heavy. I had a Brand new Remington 700 that had a 9lb Trigger!!! The Attouneys made them do it was the responce I received from the Gun Smith?

 

[Rare Breed]

My 470 NE DR just came back from JJ. Same issue…too heavy both triggers now both 5 pounds

 

[375Fox]

From the Factory the front trigger was 6lbs and rear trigger was 9lbs. JJ recomends 5lbs on both. That is what Holland and Holland recommends also. A starting point is half the weight of the rifle. Doubles are Heavy. I had a Brand new Remington 700 that had a 9lb Trigger!!! The Attouneys made them do it was the responce I received from the Gun Smith?

5 lbs is a heavy trigger for me, but 9 lbs seems crazy from factory.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

From the Factory the front trigger was 6lbs and rear trigger was 9lbs. JJ recomends 5lbs on both. That is what Holland and Holland recommends also. A starting point is half the weight of the rifle. Doubles are Heavy. I had a Brand new Remington 700 that had a 9lb Trigger!!! The Attouneys made them do it was the responce I received from the Gun Smith?

Africa carry. The PH’s made them do it!

 

[Altitude sickness]

I see both sides of this coin. The practical side. Take a more practical killing tool. (Bolt gun with scope) or the romantic tool. (Single, falling block. Or double)

For me, my first bull had to be with a bow. My first hunt went great and had many exciting stalks. Some scary, some disappointing.
My second archery Buffalo hunt was successful on the fifth of a 12 day hunt. A bedded group of bachelor bulls, we crawled within 25 yards. Two bulls caught movement and stood. I shot the smaller of the two. 38” 7 or 8 yr old. He provided the best angle for an arrow. One arrow at the forward side the front shoulder, in the V. and the bull was soon bellowing 150 yards away.
I never once had thoughts of wishing I could shoot Bulls out of my range of 25 yds.
In fact was offered to sit water as the best odds.
I would have chosen to rifle hunt on the track and give up the bow hunt. Instead of sitting water.
Trailing them is the most important aspect of the hunt to me. Not the weapon.
So now that I have one with bow. I want to trail one with a single action falling block or a double.
I do like the idea of a quick detach scope for the first accurate shot then a quick removal for the tracking and potential follow up. I’m leaning towards a falling block.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

That was my feeling for my first buff, this is what took him, 375 H&H

 

[HankBuck]

For sure buy the double, you only live once so give it everything you have got. They are iconic, they are special, they scream 'Africa'. Practicality is a very mundane word when you consider that with each and every passing day you have one day less to truly enjoy. Your hunt is made up of many things and just putting an animal in the salt is just a small part of it. There is the buildup and expectation, there is the planning, the practice, the daydreaming, and dare I say the romance of it all. I would far rather get all of that right and just go for one special old buff with a double than warm the barrel of a 'tool'. It is all about savouring the experience, otherwise why endure the 40 hour travel and all the rest just to pull a mediocre trigger?

As to the financial side, there is as much fun in the hunt for the double itself as there is in the hunt with it. And bear in mind that provided you don't buy over the top you will always get back what you spend.

Kevin I think you “nailed it” - a Double Rifle IS Africa and for many owning one is a dream and “completes” a Safari experience....yes I’m included in that group. You don’t buy a double rifle because it’s practical - an African Safari is also Not practical. While any bolt rifle .375 and Up can easily take buffalo - who cares ? We all know many rifles can kill game - a Safari is more then that and personal to each Hunter. I’d never try to judge another Hunter as either a “show off” or “cheap” based on what rife or attire he chooses to wear - it’s up to the individual. On a somewhat related note - I love wood stocks on rifles & shotguns and the prettier the wood - the better. I admit that composite stocks are better, more durable, maybe lend to greater accuracy, I don’t care because they are Ugly & Not traditional. You never need 1/2” MOA to kill Big Game and usually 3” is plenty accurate enough. Lastly, even a used Double Rifle (well cared for) will eventually sell for close to original price or higher. I’d guess most Big Bore Double Rifles don’t have 500 rounds put through them in 25 years and I wouldn’t hesitate to buy good used (although I’m a Lefty so that’s a tough find or me).

 

[Bonk]

I don't fully understand why someone would put a put a red dot/RMR on a classic double rifle. Putting aside their effectiveness doesn't a modern optic on a classic double ruin the nostalgia, tradition and aesthetic? Aren't express sights part of the iconic double rifle experience? I'm not criticizing other's choices. I'm genuinely curious to understand the seeming disconnect between honoring a double rifle's heritage and using modern aiming devices. It's like installing paddle shifters on a classic sports car.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I don't fully understand why someone would put a put a red dot/RMR on a classic double rifle. Putting aside their effectiveness doesn't a modern optic on a classic double ruin the nostalgia, tradition and aesthetic? Aren't express sights part of the iconic double rifle experience? I'm not criticizing other's choices. I'm genuinely curious to understand the seeming disconnect between honoring a double rifle's heritage and using modern aiming devices. It's like installing paddle shifters on a classic sports car.

For me the main reason was my poor performance shooting iron sights(due to diminished vision)with my double. As soon as I installed the red dot that all changed and am extremely confident in my shooting. When dangerous game is on the menu confidence and accuracy are what’s most important.

HH

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don't fully understand why someone would put a put a red dot/RMR on a classic double rifle. Putting aside their effectiveness doesn't a modern optic on a classic double ruin the nostalgia, tradition and aesthetic? Aren't express sights part of the iconic double rifle experience? I'm not criticizing other's choices. I'm genuinely curious to understand the seeming disconnect between honoring a double rifle's heritage and using modern aiming devices. It's like installing paddle shifters on a classic sports car.

What I'm seeing in this thread is an argument for the safety factor at least as much if not more than the nostalgia/romance factor as a justification for choosing a double rifle over a bolt magnum. I don't own a rifle with red dot sights but I have handled my PH's 458 Lott backup DGR outfitted with a fancy holographic sight. I can certainly see how one of those might be extremely advantageous if stopping a charging buff or elelephant came into play. I also think express sights are essentially a joke on one of those giant killer double guns. Who's going to shoot a 500 Nitro past fifty yards? The other two or three leaves on an express sight are purely ornamental. Just dopey. As useless today as they were 120 years ago. Like the barrel band sling swivel on safari bolt rifles. Doesn't everyone carry those sitting on their shoulder, hand grasping barrel, with no sling attached? What's the point in sling swivels? Anyway, if I felt my life might depend on a second barrel (and I don't), I suppose I might be inclined to give more weight to technology than nostalgia when selecting my sights.

 

[IvW]

I don't fully understand why someone would put a put a red dot/RMR on a classic double rifle. Putting aside their effectiveness doesn't a modern optic on a classic double ruin the nostalgia, tradition and aesthetic? Aren't express sights part of the iconic double rifle experience? I'm not criticizing other's choices. I'm genuinely curious to understand the seeming disconnect between honoring a double rifle's heritage and using modern aiming devices. It's like installing paddle shifters on a classic sports car.

Whats the point of having an expensive double rifle but you cant shoot for shit cause you cannot use the traditional open sights??

Normal deep v sights needs your eyes to focus on 3 things, back sight, front sight, target...
Ghost ring 2 only(Hyem offer it) front sight and target
Red dots 2 the dot and the target....

 

[rookhawk]

Whats the point of having an expensive double rifle but you cant shoot for shit cause you cannot use the traditional open sights??

Normal deep v sights needs your eyes to focus on 3 things, back sight, front sight, target...
Ghost ring 2 only(Hyem offer it) front sight and target
Red dots 2 the dot and the target....

I disagree on the “reasons” for a double rifle in your post and @Bonk ’s

I find RMR sights to be very ugly and I do care about aesthetics, but a quick detach mount insures that you won’t be photographed with it attached at the end of a successful hunt.

My definition of WHY a double rifle:

1.) It is the fastest gun design to get off two shots in a very large caliber round.
2.) With a rimmed NE cartridge, it is the least likely design to experience a jam that could be fatal to the hunter.
3.) Of excellent design and with a tang safety, it can be shot marginally faster from ready position than a typical magazine rifle.
4.) It is the most resilient and redundant weapon you can use on safari. In most cases, a catastrophic failure results in you still having “one barrel ready for use”. Double triggers, double ejectors, double firing springs, double barrels”. A lot has to go wrong to end a safari due to a mechanical failure of a double rifle compared to a magazine rifle.

 

[IvW]

Reasons for a double rifle?? Heh?
Thought we were talking sights?

 

[IvW]

A low power scope with swing off mounts can also work...

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I disagree on the “reasons” for a double rifle in your post and @Bonk ’s

I find RMR sights to be very ugly and I do care about aesthetics, but a quick detach mount insures that you won’t be photographed with it attached at the end of a successful hunt.

My definition of WHY a double rifle:

1.) It is the fastest gun design to get off two shots in a very large caliber round.
2.) With a rimmed NE cartridge, it is the least likely design to experience a jam that could be fatal to the hunter.
3.) Of excellent design and with a tang safety, it can be shot marginally faster from ready position than a typical magazine rifle.
4.) It is the most resilient and redundant weapon you can use on safari. In most cases, a catastrophic failure results in you still having “one barrel ready for use”. Double triggers, double ejectors, double firing springs, double barrels”. A lot has to go wrong to end a safari due to a mechanical failure of a double rifle compared to a magazine rifle.

So ... you would shoot an animal with a rifle wearing tech sights but not want to be photographed afterwards with them on the gun? I always felt after-the-deed photos were meant to capture memorable events as they happened, as much as possible anyway. But that's just me.

 

[rookhawk]

So ... you would shoot an animal with a rifle wearing tech sights but not want to be photographed afterwards with them on the gun? I always felt after-the-deed photos were meant to capture memorable events as they happened, as much as possible anyway. But that's just me.

Its a way to shut people up with more pride and ego than practicality.