Delta ban on Trophies

[lwaters]

Like I said before the anti's don't necessarily have to ban hunting, all they have to do is make economical and logistically impossible for us to have a good time because of all the regulations and BS. And I hate BS, which is what Delta did here. Yes, it was a business decision, but a sad day for us hunters.

The sad part of all this that I now hear the lion was taken legally.

 

[enysse]

Even it was taken legally it makes no difference. I have said before, a lot of people think those animals are protected, just like elephants are endangered and never hunted. I had an argument today with a co-worker that said those no good trophy hunters just take pictures of there kill and that is it. I told her ever so nicely to book a trip to Africa and find the truth out for herself, because you and few million other people need a real education. I told her they use the stomach and intestines, the bones even have value.....the anti's are stupid, I said fly to Botswana to see all those extinct elephants!!!! There are thousands upon thousands there!!!!!

 

[Warbird782]

I just read in the social media world that UPS cargo will continue to handle these shipments. Their stance is that as long as it is legal they will ship it. The problem is I don't think they are in the SA or African market too much.

On the flip side, after this press statement there are now many online petitions to CEO David Abbney to ban all trophy shipments. That is how they are doing this. They are putting up petitions and flooding corporations PR departments. Meanwhile us conservationists are just standing on the sideline.

 

[Delta5Cav]

I hope that Delta realizes how much this will hurt them in the long run. The only way is to let them know that we won't be flying them anymore, I guess.

 

[K-man]

I believe Red Leg has the right of it. The corporate officers and board of directors of Delta have taken on the responsibility of running the corporation and making the shareholders money. And guarding their investments. And minimizing their risk. You might be surprised and even a little bit proud of how seriously many of these folks take that responsibility. Even to the point of putting their personal beliefs and motivations aside. Making decisions solely on what is best for the company and its shareholders. This is how successful companies operate.
If you all remember just a short time ago Delta held firm even though they were getting pressure from the anti's just like SAA and others. Trust me, this has been a very well orchestrated operation and the airlines have been but one cog in the giant wheel. Delta has actually been a lot more on our side and resistant to the pressure being brought to bear than many others.
Now, before you go all Carrie Underwood on me and brand me a traitor to the cause, I aint happy about it either! But we need to take our own advice and be smart and pragmatic about things.
Delta will hear from me too. What they will hear is how disappointing it is to learn that my airline of choice, the one I fly whenever I can because of the service and quality I receive, has been caught in the middle of an unfair, disgusting, and misguided war of ideologies waged by a few radicals bent on manipulating the masses to their own short sighted ends. I sincerely hope that in the very near future when this facebook tempest in a teapot passes and america's interest has shifted back to the Cardashians that Delta will not forsake their millions of loyal customers and do the right thing by supporting true conservation and conservationists. The sportsmen and women who are the true force making a difference against poaching and safeguarding the future of animals all over the globe.
The message Delta needs to hear is, you stand by us and we'll stand by you. Don't believe for a moment that Delta doesn't know it's market segments. They do. Intimately. No company throws away a market lightly. Delta doesn't want to lose sportsmen's dollars, it just may seem like the least bad option available to them right now.

I agree with you 100%. I just have a very long memory when someone screws you over for no good reason. I WONT GO BACK. EVER. And I told them so, unless they immediately reverse and publicise it.

 

[vette447]

vette , sorry to hear this,
but if l was you id be getting your lion into America as soon as , mate ...
its not much fun talking to dickheads and lady dickheads , about getting legal hunting trophies home once a bann is implemented ......
once a date is stamped on a bann , its like these !@#$wits don't understand that lions were actually around before then ........
and you will go mad trying to talk sense to stupid robots....
hope you get your crates home ,with great speed

I hear you man. Those are my concerns exactly. They can't get over here and clear Customs and USFW fast enough for me!!

 

[IdaRam]

I agree with you 100%. I just have a very long memory when someone screws you over for no good reason. I WONT GO BACK. EVER. And I told them so, unless they immediately reverse and publicise it.

I hear ya man. I feel the same.
We would all be well served to carefully analyze and understand the dynamics in play here, though. For us this is very personal. For Delta this is very business. We wish this was a personal matter for Delta and they shared our convictions. Not the case and never going to be. The best we can do is the old carrot and stick, knowing full well we don't have that big of a stick. Still got a stick though. How we use it will determine our success or failure. Ultimately our objective is to preserve the airlines as a carrier of our cargo. Trophies...and firearms, and ammunition, and us. If it becomes about sending a message or making a point this may not end well for us.

 

[enysse]

Anyway, you look at it...Delta loses. They make money on customers, it's business. I just wish those POS anti-hunters would find something else to do.

 

[IdaRam]

Anyway, you look at it...Delta loses. They make money on customers, it's business. I just wish those POS anti-hunters would find something else to do.

I'm right there with you enysse.

 

[johnnyblues]

The sad part of all this that I now hear the lion was taken legally.

Where did you hear that?? That's good news. Better late than never

 

[Hogpatrol]

After I registered a complaint on the Delta website, stating I would discontinue using them for ALL travel, I received this reply. If a few thousand hunters did this and advertised it, it just may cause some reversal.

Dear Mr. Xxxxxxxx,

RE: Case Number 16929503

Thank you for your email to Delta Air Lines.

Delta has banned the shipment of all lion, leopard, elephant, rhinoceros
and buffalo trophies worldwide as freight. Prior to this ban, Delta's
strict acceptance policy called for absolute compliance with all
government regulations regarding protected species. Delta will also
review the acceptance policies for other hunting trophies with the
appropriate government agencies and other organizations that support
legal shipments.

We value customer feedback and appreciate you taking the time to contact
us. We understand your feelings surrounding this issue, and we are
grateful you took the time to let us know how our actions have been
perceived. Your concerns have been reported to the appropriate
leadership for internal review.

We appreciate your selection of Delta and will always welcome the
opportunity to be of service.

Sincerely,

Shawn Alex
Online Customer Support Desk
delta.com

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

So I guess the bigger question is: How long before they ban ALL hunting trophies as cargo? I mean, there are no shortages of cape buffalo, but they some how made the list......why didn't hippo make the list? After all, they are so cute when they dance around in those little tutus like they did in fantasia..........and why not crocodiles? They were so cute in that "Peter Pan" movie. Guess the only way we can preserve hunting as we know it is to have the Kardashians and Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner pick up a gun and shoot a kudu.........that's the only way that the damn masses will know and understand what hunting and conservation is really all about........you have to put the "message" into some numbing, mindless "entertainment". I mean, come on .....Paul Watson is such a hero; he rides around in a big boat and throws paint balls and stink bombs at the Japanese whaling fleet. What he says must have some validity; after all, it's not like he's a biologist that actually studies herds of wildbeest on the Serengeti or anything.....it's his passion for lies and misinformation that count......and it sells advertising space.
"They" don't want to be painted with a broad brush, but have no problem doing it by painting all hunters as poachers in a country that is known for corruption.........thumbs up to that!

.....and if it isn't the airlines and the antis trying to screw us over, it's our own govt. by "revising" how we take our firearms out of country........by changing the basic form 4457 earlier this year, but not really communicating the changes.....even to govt employees that were suppose to enforce the changes. Oh, and the changes were to protect us from drug dealers.....so now we are not only equated with "poachers", we are now equated with "drug dealers"..........can't WAIT for the first politician who comes to my doorstep campaigning this fall; he is going to get such an earful that his head is going to be lopsided for a month.

God help us all........................

After I registered a complaint on the Delta website, stating I would discontinue using them for ALL travel, I received this reply. If a few thousand hunters did this and advertised it, it just may cause some reversal.

Dear Mr. Xxxxxxxx,

RE: Case Number 16929503

Thank you for your email to Delta Air Lines.

Delta has banned the shipment of all lion, leopard, elephant, rhinoceros
and buffalo trophies worldwide as freight. Prior to this ban, Delta's
strict acceptance policy called for absolute compliance with all
government regulations regarding protected species. Delta will also
review the acceptance policies for other hunting trophies with the
appropriate government agencies and other organizations that support
legal shipments.

We value customer feedback and appreciate you taking the time to contact
us. We understand your feelings surrounding this issue, and we are
grateful you took the time to let us know how our actions have been
perceived. Your concerns have been reported to the appropriate
leadership for internal review.

We appreciate your selection of Delta and will always welcome the
opportunity to be of service.

Sincerely,

Shawn Alex
Online Customer Support Desk
delta.com

So, basically............you got a form letter (form email?). Even if they reverse the policy at this point, I'm done with Delta. I will fly Aeroflot before I will fly Delta!!!!

Sorry............done with my rant now; I have to go and take my antihypertensives.

 

[Areaonereal]

Now for a theoretical analysis by any "legal eagles" or attorneys that may frequent this forum. The SCOTUS has upheld that gay marriages are legal and can not be discrimated against for ethical, religious or moral puposes(remember the baker that refused to bake the wedding cake). As I see the airline refusals to ship Legally acquired game accompanied by full documentation and game exportable from any country into the US then those airlines refusal as discrimanatory on their interpretation or moral and ethical grounds. Would they refuse a ticket for fliying to a Gay couple, of course not, even tho they may have moral or ethical opinions to the contrary. There is no danger, or illegality associated with the transport of animal trophies in secured crates as those that are shipped on the airlines, so what is the reason for their refusal????Seems to be blatant discrimination against a specific group of individuals, which I believe could be unconstitutional. The airlines of all business that are so closely monitored and regulated by the US government are treading on very thin ice. I wonder if there legal department reviewed their decision to ban prior to there knee jerk decision. My opinion is only for US based carriers and have no knowledge how internationally owned carriers are regulated by specific rights within each country. I am not sure how an airline can descriminate against providing services to a specific segment of society as long as that service poses no danger to the airline or its passengers. What will be the next step, refusal to issue tickets for hunters. Almost appears to be one in the same. No transporting of trophies legally obtained (Big 5) means no transporting of hunters, a "back door" approach to yet more discrimination.

 

[lwaters]

Now for a theoretical analysis by any "legal eagles" or attorneys that may frequent this forum. The SCOTUS has upheld that gay marriages are legal and can not be discrimated against for ethical, religious or moral puposes(remember the baker that refused to bake the wedding cake). As I see the airline refusals to ship Legally acquired game accompanied by full documentation and game exportable from any country into the US then those airlines refusal as discrimanatory on their interpretation or moral and ethical grounds. Would they refuse a ticket for fliying to a Gay couple, of course not, even tho they may have moral or ethical opinions to the contrary. There is no danger, or illegality associated with the transport of animal trophies in secured crates as those that are shipped on the airlines, so what is the reason for their refusal????Seems to be blatant discrimination against a specific group of individuals, which I believe could be unconstitutional. The airlines of all business that are so closely monitored and regulated by the US government are treading on very thin ice. I wonder if there legal department reviewed their decision to ban prior to there knee jerk decision. My opinion is only for US based carriers and have no knowledge how internationally owned carriers are regulated by specific rights within each country. I am not sure how an airline can descriminate against providing services to a specific segment of society as long as that service poses no danger to the airline or its passengers. What will be the next step, refusal to issue tickets for hunters. Almost appears to be one in the same. No transporting of trophies legally obtained (Big 5) means no transporting of hunters, a "back door" approach to yet more discrimination.

lot of these people that hold high positions went to college in the 60 and 70's and used alot of LSD. That is why you hear alot of dumb decisions like was made at Delta. Hopefully when that generation retires things will return to a common sense approach

 

[lwaters]

Where did you hear that?? That's good news. Better late than never

Read the thread above this one the last few messages talks about some people who are there hunting with the PH I think

 

[Bruce Fletcher]

Maybe it's just me but lately I have felt that the world has gone completely insane. Didn't they see how every other airline that did this recently backed down after they saw what it would cost them? If hunting is so bad why just the big five? What's there to "review"?

I liked Delta. I won't be using them for my next trip to Africa, even if it costs me more to use a competitor.

You are not alone. I have been thinking the same thing about the world. Police are the ones being tried for defending themselves. Hunters are confused with poachers. The truth is there, but the screamers and hysterical liberals won't look to the truth, only to their version of reality no matter how much damage it does.

 

[Custom]

I just returned from the RSA Sunday and took buffalo, eland, zebra and bushbuck. I was in Africa when Cecil was killed and didn't hear too much about it but, man, the outcry here is ridiculous, I have talked to my taxidermist here and my dip and pack/exporter over there. The consensus seems to be that this will eventually die down and someone will be willing to transport my trophies. Whether or not that is Delta remains to be seen. I flew Delta on my trip and prefer the route from ATL to Joberg for its convenience. However, if they don't change their position, I'll not fly them again for my safaris (domestically it is a different story - I travel extensively on business and there aren't too many choices any more). I will be sending Delta a message via their web site regardignn their policies. I think we all should do the same. It might make a difference.

 

[johnnyblues]

Now for a theoretical analysis by any "legal eagles" or attorneys that may frequent this forum. The SCOTUS has upheld that gay marriages are legal and can not be discrimated against for ethical, religious or moral puposes(remember the baker that refused to bake the wedding cake). As I see the airline refusals to ship Legally acquired game accompanied by full documentation and game exportable from any country into the US then those airlines refusal as discrimanatory on their interpretation or moral and ethical grounds. Would they refuse a ticket for fliying to a Gay couple, of course not, even tho they may have moral or ethical opinions to the contrary. There is no danger, or illegality associated with the transport of animal trophies in secured crates as those that are shipped on the airlines, so what is the reason for their refusal????Seems to be blatant discrimination against a specific group of individuals, which I believe could be unconstitutional. The airlines of all business that are so closely monitored and regulated by the US government are treading on very thin ice. I wonder if there legal department reviewed their decision to ban prior to there knee jerk decision. My opinion is only for US based carriers and have no knowledge how internationally owned carriers are regulated by specific rights within each country. I am not sure how an airline can descriminate against providing services to a specific segment of society as long as that service poses no danger to the airline or its passengers. What will be the next step, refusal to issue tickets for hunters. Almost appears to be one in the same. No transporting of trophies legally obtained (Big 5) means no transporting of hunters, a "back door" approach to yet more discrimination.

Ok SCI where are your attorneys on this one??

 

[IdaRam]

I think some of y'all may be missing the point. This is not coming organically from within Delta airlines. The airlines are under attack from the anti's just like we are. The folks in the big offices on the top floor at Delta airlines are not collaborating with friggin PETA for heck sakes. They are business executives with plenty of headaches and zero time to deal with stupid crap from radical, left wing whack jobs. They have all kinds of safety and regulatory nightmares to deal with in addition to trying to keep their airline profitable.
THERE HAS BEEN AN ATTACK CAMPAIGN GOING ON FOR MONTHS IN WHICH A BUNCH OF AIRLINES HAVE BEEN TARGETED!
Here's what they are hearing, "Now you see what kind of power and influence we have? Look at america's response to this pissant dentist. What do you think america's response is going to be to you when we brand your airline as "THE CARRIER" of slaughtered lions from africa?"
Delta and all other airlines should hear our message too. No doubt! We should tell them we're disappointed with their decision and unless they revise it we're going elsewhere. But our voice should be the one of reason and intelligence. Let's be the rational party here. The more we can contrast our message and behavior with the absolutely irrational and insane behavior of these whackos the more success we are going to have convincing anyone to listen to us.
One of these days in the near future the "normal people" are going to say enough! You crazy mother effers have gone too far. In this country we don't convict and punish people without due process. We don't destroy their property and threaten their families. We don't blackmail and extort corporations.
My only point; Delta is not plotting against hunters. They are trying to keep from being the target of a massive smear campaign by the anti's.
WE SHOULD ALL ABSOLUTELY CONTACT DELTA AND EXPRESS OUR POSITION.
The most effective message is going to be:
There are 80 million gun owners in America. There are 20 million hunters. These are not insignificant numbers. Don't underestimate the power and resolve of this group. This Cecil issue will pass and we'll all still be here. You don't want to have alienated us. Revise your policy and do what's right.
If Delta believes we are already a lost cause then they have nothing to lose by just banning trophy shipments.

 

[johnnyblues]

I think some of y'all may be missing the point. This is not coming organically from within Delta airlines. The airlines are under attack from the anti's just like we are. The folks in the big offices on the top floor at Delta airlines are not collaborating with friggin PETA for heck sakes. They are business executives with plenty of headaches and zero time to deal with stupid crap from radical, left wing whack jobs. They have all kinds of safety and regulatory nightmares to deal with in addition to trying to keep their airline profitable.
THERE HAS BEEN AN ATTACK CAMPAIGN GOING ON FOR MONTHS IN WHICH A BUNCH OF AIRLINES HAVE BEEN TARGETED!
Here's what they are hearing, "Now you see what kind of power and influence we have? Look at america's response to this pissant dentist. What do you think america's response is going to be to you when we brand your airline as "THE CARRIER" of slaughtered lions from africa?"
Delta and all other airlines should hear our message too. No doubt! We should tell them we're disappointed with their decision and unless they revise it we're going elsewhere. But our voice should be the one of reason and intelligence. Let's be the rational party here. The more we can contrast our message and behavior with the absolutely irrational and insane behavior of these whackos the more success we are going to have convincing anyone to listen to us.
One of these days in the near future the "normal people" are going to say enough! You crazy mother effers have gone too far. In this country we don't convict and punish people without due process. We don't destroy their property and threaten their families. We don't blackmail and extort corporations.
My only point; Delta is not plotting against hunters. They are trying to keep from being the target of a massive smear campaign by the anti's.
WE SHOULD ALL ABSOLUTELY CONTACT DELTA AND EXPRESS OUR POSITION.
The most effective message is going to be:
There are 80 million gun owners in America. There are 20 million hunters. These are not insignificant numbers. Don't underestimate the power and resolve of this group. This Cecil issue will pass and we'll all still be here. You don't want to have alienated us. Revise your policy and do what's right.
If Delta believes we are already a lost cause then they have nothing to lose by just banning trophy shipments.

Nicely said sir.