Can we please stop talking about "flat shooting" cartridges

[sgt_zim]

Because you believe that most shooters can't shoot well beyond 300 yards no one should be interested in cartridges that are capable of accuracy beyond that distance. Because you believe that most hunters live in flat, whitetail woods where 300 yards would be an impossibly long shot, none of them have an interest in hunting in country where 300 yards is not considered a really long shot. Because you believe that no deer will care whether or not the bullet that hit him came from a 7-08 or a 7 mm RM (okay, he won't, but an elk might) the 7-08 is a superior round because it kicks less. I shoot and hunt with both of those cslibers, along with .30-06 and .300 Win Mag. They all have their place, and sometimes flat shooting is an important consideration. I like the 7-08 for deer when I don't expect shots beyond 250 yards, but I don't carry it when I hunt mule deer or pronghorns.

So to answer your original question, no I don't think we will stop talking about "flat shooting" cartriges.

Way to put words in my mouth.

Most shooters can't shoot 300 yards. Go to any public range and watch them struggle for an inch at 100 yards.

Most hunters in the US do live and hunt in flat, white tail woods.

The line of demarc is roughly along Interstate 35. Way more people live and hunt east of there than west of there.

And I have never said there is no utility in flat-shooting cartridges, there is just no advantage to shooting them for most hunters.

Flat shooting is useful here

But here, not so much

 

[Hogpatrol]

@sgt_zim Hunting the big woods in PA, my first four deer were less than 75 yards. About the only chance for a long shot would be in a corn field or along a pipeline or powerline right of way.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Because you believe that most shooters can't shoot well beyond 300 yards no one should be interested in cartridges that are capable of accuracy beyond that distance. Because you believe that most hunters live in flat, whitetail woods where 300 yards would be an impossibly long shot, none of them have an interest in hunting in country where 300 yards is not considered a really long shot. Because you believe that no deer will care whether or not the bullet that hit him came from a 7-08 or a 7 mm RM (okay, he won't, but an elk might) the 7-08 is a superior round because it kicks less. I shoot and hunt with both of those cslibers, along with .30-06 and .300 Win Mag. They all have their place, and sometimes flat shooting is an important consideration. I like the 7-08 for deer when I don't expect shots beyond 250 yards, but I don't carry it when I hunt mule deer or pronghorns.

So to answer your original question, no I don't think we will stop talking about "flat shooting" cartriges.

Now the other day when you got a little excited with our favorite emotional Netflix hunter I could sorta see where you were coming from, but I'm starting to think you're a seeker of confrontation. Lots of these folks are friends with one another and give a ribbing every now and then. You'll be thanked to go forward a little kinder to folks in the future. If it wasn't clear that this was a more lighthearted thread to rib each other about various pet cartridges before, I hope it is now.

That reminds me I need to put in an order for a 6.5-3000 barrel for an R8 so I can set game on fire at 600 yards with three inches of drop. Then maybe I can atone for my sins of wasting powder in my Lott pushing trash cans downrange.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Well we all know that the 6.5CM was the first 6.5mm cartridge ever invented. It hits harder at 1,700 yards than a .300 win does at 25 yards and shoots as so flat that it actually curves away from gravity for a few hundred meters (real shooters/operators use meters.... not the yards that are so common among the plebeians). Also since it was the first 6.5 ever invented, it is superior to everything currently out there. It really does its best hunting in a 17.5 lb straight taper, 32" barreled match rifle with a 32x-64x75mm scope with 1/16 MOA adjustable, exposed turrets. Its so flat, and hits so hard, I have no doubt that it would knock a zebra out cold from 2,300m, where most REAL shooters would shoot them from.

I am just passing along facts here... not someone's opinion.... cold. hard. facts.

Funny!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Now the other day when you got a little excited with our favorite emotional Netflix hunter I could sorta see where you were coming from, but I'm starting to think you're a seeker of confrontation. Lots of these folks are friends with one another and give a ribbing every now and then. You'll be thanked to go forward a little kinder to folks in the future. If it wasn't clear that this was a more lighthearted thread to rib each other about various pet cartridges before, I hope it is now.

That reminds me I need to put in an order for a 6.5-3000 barrel for an R8 so I can set game on fire at 600 yards with three inches of drop. Then maybe I can atone for my sins of wasting powder in my Lott pushing trash cans downrange.

I don't mind some ribbing when it's all in fun, but when you tell me that I don't know what I am talking about because you are so much more of an expert, you probably won't like my reaction.
I've been guilty of teasing Bob Nelson about using his .35 Whelan for scrub bulls and should use a .243 instead. I genuinely like the guy and like.me he detests the .243. But the joke was obvious and therein lies the difference. I hope you see it now.
Good luck with your trash cans, I hear they can be terrifying when they charge, but I'm sure you can handle them with that Lott! That one was a joke.

 

[Inline6]

Well we all know that the 6.5CM was the first 6.5mm cartridge ever invented. It hits harder at 1,700 yards than a .300 win does at 25 yards and shoots as so flat that it actually curves away from gravity for a few hundred meters (real shooters/operators use meters.... not the yards that are so common among the plebeians). Also since it was the first 6.5 ever invented, it is superior to everything currently out there. It really does its best hunting in a 17.5 lb straight taper, 32" barreled match rifle with a 32x-64x75mm scope with 1/16 MOA adjustable, exposed turrets. Its so flat, and hits so hard, I have no doubt that it would knock a zebra out cold from 2,300m, where most REAL shooters would shoot them from.

I am just passing along facts here... not someone's opinion.... cold. hard. facts.

Can you please go to all the boards on the internet and say this? Maybe it will help me find ammo cheaper.

Guessed I missed the memo as to why all the hate for the 6.5CM. Have been shooting it for the 12 years. Have recorded hit at 1500 yards. Have hit 3/4" targets at 395 yards with factory ammo 3X in a row. Put a round in a T box at 1300 yards. Is it the best 6.5 cartridge? I can't answer that. I can say after 8k+ rounds it is a worthy cartridge.

It doesn't bother me, I have actually facts on the cartridge. What bothers me is someone that might pass on it due to the negative comments made about it.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well we all know that the 6.5CM was the first 6.5mm cartridge ever invented. It hits harder at 1,700 yards than a .300 win does at 25 yards and shoots as so flat that it actually curves away from gravity for a few hundred meters (real shooters/operators use meters.... not the yards that are so common among the plebeians). Also since it was the first 6.5 ever invented, it is superior to everything currently out there. It really does its best hunting in a 17.5 lb straight taper, 32" barreled match rifle with a 32x-64x75mm scope with 1/16 MOA adjustable, exposed turrets. Its so flat, and hits so hard, I have no doubt that it would knock a zebra out cold from 2,300m, where most REAL shooters would shoot them from.

I am just passing along facts here... not someone's opinion.... cold. hard. facts.

@ChrisG
What about fluting the barrel to make it more rigid. I'm assuming you are using low mount scope rings or do you have an adjustable stock to get the best lop and check weld. What about a muzzle brake to reduce recoil.
Just curious mate as it sounds like a bloody awesome weapon.
I will await further testing by your good self before I make up my mind.
Ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don't mind some ribbing when it's all in fun, but when you tell me that I don't know what I am talking about because you are so much more of an expert, you probably won't like my reaction.
I've been guilty of teasing Bob Nelson about using his .35 Whelan for scrub bulls and should use a .243 instead. I genuinely like the guy and like.me he detests the .243. But the joke was obvious and therein lies the difference. I hope you see it now.
Good luck with your trash cans, I hear they can be terrifying when they charge, but I'm sure you can handle them with that Lott! That one was a joke.

@Doug Hamilton
I enjoy our banter and I'm glad you dislike the 243.
I'm still going to use my 35Whelen on scuba bulls just to prove you wrong. Just on the off chance your right I have also invested in good running shoes and a quick release flap in my hunting pants. The flap is so I don't stain my pants in case of emergency.
Bob

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Can you please go to all the boards on the internet and say this? Maybe it will help me find ammo cheaper.

Guessed I missed the memo as to why all the hate for the 6.5CM. Have been shooting it for the 12 years. Have recorded hit at 1500 yards. Have hit 3/4" targets at 395 yards with factory ammo 3X in a row. Put a round in a T box at 1300 yards. Is it the best 6.5 cartridge? I can't answer that. I can say after 8k+ rounds it is a worthy cartridge.

It doesn't bother me, I have actually facts on the cartridge. What bothers me is someone that might pass on it due to the negative comments made about it.

We don’t hate the 6.5 creedmore, it’s a fine cartridge. We hate that gun writers and advertisers have tried to make it something it isn’t. It’s bad enough that a lot of people my age actually think it will hit harder than a 300 Winchester magnum at range.
There has been too much comparing apples to oranges, and to much promoting long range hunting when it’s unnecessary.
The 6.5 are great and have been around for 120 years, the only new about the creedmore is advertising. It kind of bugs us.

 

[sgt_zim]

We don’t hate the 6.5 creedmore, it’s a fine cartridge. We hate that gun writers and advertisers have tried to make it something it isn’t. It’s bad enough that a lot of people my age actually think it will hit harder than a 300 Winchester magnum at range.
There has been too much comparing apples to oranges, and to much promoting long range hunting when it’s unnecessary.
The 6.5 are great and have been around for 120 years, the only new about the creedmore is advertising. It kind of bugs us.

Exactly this.

I can get the same performance out of my 6.5x55 T3X.

It is an unfortunate reality that people skimp when it comes to their hunting ammo and will grab a box of American Hunter when there are boxes of Accubonds, Partitions, Barnes, Norma, or Sirocco II available

 

[sgt_zim]

Can you please go to all the boards on the internet and say this? Maybe it will help me find ammo cheaper.

Guessed I missed the memo as to why all the hate for the 6.5CM. Have been shooting it for the 12 years. Have recorded hit at 1500 yards. Have hit 3/4" targets at 395 yards with factory ammo 3X in a row. Put a round in a T box at 1300 yards. Is it the best 6.5 cartridge? I can't answer that. I can say after 8k+ rounds it is a worthy cartridge.

It doesn't bother me, I have actually facts on the cartridge. What bothers me is someone that might pass on it due to the negative comments made about it.

No doubt. For target practice with my Swede, I shoot ELD-X 143 grain. It's hard to beat them for consistency and BC. But when I venture off into the deer woods, I leave the Hornady ammo at home and bring the 160 gr Woodleighs.

 

[Pheroze]

Turkeys and eagles both fly. One does it with more speed. Use a flapping turkey or screaming eagle as you choose.

 

[ChrisG]

Can you please go to all the boards on the internet and say this? Maybe it will help me find ammo cheaper.

Guessed I missed the memo as to why all the hate for the 6.5CM. Have been shooting it for the 12 years. Have recorded hit at 1500 yards. Have hit 3/4" targets at 395 yards with factory ammo 3X in a row. Put a round in a T box at 1300 yards. Is it the best 6.5 cartridge? I can't answer that. I can say after 8k+ rounds it is a worthy cartridge.

It doesn't bother me, I have actually facts on the cartridge. What bothers me is someone that might pass on it due to the negative comments made about it.

We definitely don't hate it. What we hate is the dramatically overblown mysticism attributed to it by the young crowd of "experts" who are shocked to find out the 6.5x55, 6.5MS, 6.5-06, .264WM, 6.5 Carcano, Jap, etc. etc. etc. all predate the creed by over a century in some cases and many outperform it in all normal circumstances. I think the 6.5CM is a great cartridge and will do anything my old 6.5x55 will. I just pick on it because it is a buzzword and the most common conversations heard by new shooters in guns shops is:

"But does it come in six-five creedmoor?"
"No... It is a .280AI"
"Oh... Yeah I want something capable of long range. Thank you anyway"

 

[Inline6]

We definitely don't hate it. What we hate is the dramatically overblown mysticism attributed to it by the young crowd of "experts" who are shocked to find out the 6.5x55, 6.5MS, 6.5-06, .264WM, 6.5 Carcano, Jap, etc. etc. etc. all predate the creed by over a century in some cases and many outperform it in all normal circumstances. I think the 6.5CM is a great cartridge and will do anything my old 6.5x55 will. I just pick on it because it is a buzzword and the most common conversations heard by new shooters in guns shops is:

"But does it come in six-five creedmoor?"
"No... It is a .280AI"
"Oh... Yeah I want something capable of long range. Thank you anyway"

I get that aspect.

I was running it before the mags were pushing it. I'm coming from the comp side of things. Have told many people to run a 6.5CM over a 308. It just cuts the wind better, less recoil, it does get half the barrel life of a 308 (maybe a 1/4 depending on your standards). You can load the bullets out long and it still feeds out of the mag. You can get really good ammo for it, which 10 years ago was a little harder to do.

From the perspective you stated, I can see the rub. The flip side of this, it is getting more people into shooting. More people are getting into long range shooting at that. Just a different perspective to look at. Just like the gas guns, if some don't like them that's fine. In my eyes a gun is a gun the more people that have them the better our chances of keeping them.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

We don’t hate the 6.5 creedmore, it’s a fine cartridge. We hate that gun writers and advertisers have tried to make it something it isn’t. It’s bad enough that a lot of people my age actually think it will hit harder than a 300 Winchester magnum at range.
There has been too much comparing apples to oranges, and to much promoting long range hunting when it’s unnecessary.
The 6.5 are great and have been around for 120 years, the only new about the creedmore is advertising. It kind of bugs us.

@Wyatt Smith
Very well said young Mr Smith couldn't have said it better.
Bob

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@Doug Hamilton
I enjoy our banter and I'm glad you dislike the 243.
I'm still going to use my 35Whelen on scuba bulls just to prove you wrong.

Holy smokes, I knew you were from down under. But I had no idea you Ozzies hunted under water!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Holy smokes, I knew you were from down under. But I had no idea you Ozzies hunted under water!

@PHOENIX PHIL
Yeh new type of hunting with all the floods we have been having lately. Just hope the Whelen is up to the task. Ha ha ha ha ha ha, seriously just a typo mate thanks for pointing it out.
There are those that do hunt fish underwater with powerheads tho.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

We definitely don't hate it. What we hate is the dramatically overblown mysticism attributed to it by the young crowd of "experts" who are shocked to find out the 6.5x55, 6.5MS, 6.5-06, .264WM, 6.5 Carcano, Jap, etc. etc. etc. all predate the creed by over a century in some cases and many outperform it in all normal circumstances. I think the 6.5CM is a great cartridge and will do anything my old 6.5x55 will. I just pick on it because it is a buzzword and the most common conversations heard by new shooters in guns shops is:

"But does it come in six-five creedmoor?"
"No... It is a .280AI"
"Oh... Yeah I want something capable of long range. Thank you anyway"

And don’t forget this “new” long range cartridge from my 1972 Sierra reloading manual:

 

[375er]

And don’t forget this “new” long range cartridge from my 1972 Sierra reloading manual:

THAT should be the cartridge everyone is talking about!!!!!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

@Doug Hamilton
I enjoy our banter and I'm glad you dislike the 243.
I'm still going to use my 35Whelen on scuba bulls just to prove you wrong. Just on the off chance your right I have also invested in good running shoes and a quick release flap in my hunting pants. The flap is so I don't stain my pants in case of emergency.
Bob

Now you have to get a spear gun for "scuba bulls." Must be some type of Aussie fish. And the flap will have to be on your wet suit.

Don't you love auto correct?

Cheers mate,

Doug