Can we please stop talking about "flat shooting" cartridges

[fourfive8]

Wow! I had never seen "wasp-waist" bullets before? What appx. years did Herters make them?

Oh yes, the genuine Herter's Wasp-Waist Sonic Missile-Tail bullet! I remember picking up box at the LGS probably late 60s about the time I first started reloading. I tried a few with so-so to middlin results. Didn't buy or try any more and they soon disappeared. So production I'd guess 60s, disappearing early 70s? George Herter was the original salesman, a true entrepreneur. Known for such slogans as, "World's Finest...." fill in the blank. I don't believe Herter's made much if any of what they sold. They were very good at drawing up an idea then outsourcing the manufacture. Very slick and recognizable sales pitch with fancy labeling. A lot of their stuff wasn't too bad at all. But like Bob posted, the old Wasp Waist didn't work out so well. Lots of rumors out there as to its origin. I had to post this for some fun after digging out this old box.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Oh yes, the genuine Herter's Wasp-Waist Sonic Missile-Tail bullet! I remember picking up box at the LGS probably late 60s about the time I first started reloading. I tried a few with so-so to middlin results. Didn't buy or try any more and they soon disappeared. So production I'd guess 60s, disappearing early 70s? George Herter was the original salesman, a true entrepreneur. Known for such slogans as, "World's Finest...." fill in the blank. I don't believe Herter's made much if any of what they sold. They were very good at drawing up an idea then outsourcing the manufacture. Very slick and recognizable sales pitch with fancy labeling. A lot of their stuff wasn't too bad at all. But like Bob posted, the old Wasp Waist didn't work out so well. Lots of rumors out there as to its origin. I had to post this for some fun after digging out this old box.

Since Herters didn’t make their own products, I’m now wondering what ammo manufacturer produced these bullets? I know it’s a moot point, but is interesting?

 

[cash_tx]

Oh yes, the genuine Herter's Wasp-Waist Sonic Missile-Tail bullet! I remember picking up box at the LGS probably late 60s about the time I first started reloading. I tried a few with so-so to middlin results. Didn't buy or try any more and they soon disappeared. So production I'd guess 60s, disappearing early 70s? George Herter was the original salesman, a true entrepreneur. Known for such slogans as, "World's Finest...." fill in the blank. I don't believe Herter's made much if any of what they sold. They were very good at drawing up an idea then outsourcing the manufacture. Very slick and recognizable sales pitch with fancy labeling. A lot of their stuff wasn't too bad at all. But like Bob posted, the old Wasp Waist didn't work out so well. Lots of rumors out there as to its origin. I had to post this for some fun after digging out this old box.

On that note, the only problematic cases I've ever dealt with when reloading are my Herters brass in 7x57; the base is slightly oversized for the shell holder in my reloading press. All other brands of 7.57 brass that I have work just fine.

 

[CBH Australia]

I do not know why we are still discussing this subject, every body should know by now that a 6.5 CM with a 147grain super alloy tipped bullet shoots flatter than a laser with enough energy at 1000 meters to penetrate the frontal Armour
on an Abraham's main battle tank, well thats what i am told by the young camo dressed would be snipers at my local range?

...and confirmed by the young man behind the gun counter at Cabela's, so the matter is settled. ;-)

Did these guys you mention, jump on the Man Bun trend by chance? Errgh,

 

[rdog]

Did these guys you mention, jump on the Man Bun trend by chance? Errgh,

I must admit i do have a 6.5 CM & 2 6.5x55s a 260 REM & a 6.5 Grendel but no man bun hair do & i know the CM is not a super cartridge, hunted pigs & deer with all of them & love the 6.5x55. its a mans cartridge.

 

[CBH Australia]

@rdog I know the 6.5x55 has history and is a Classic cartridge.

My brother has just got a Tikka in 6.5x55 can't wait to get my hands on it.

I hope to have a .260 at some point but I don't want a Creedmoor, I've just had to much to say and I'm sure I will be reminded.

 

[Newby]

Why I will stick with the 30-06.

Exactly. But I will probably still read the 13 pointless pages following your wise decision. LOL.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I must admit i do have a 6.5 CM & 2 6.5x55s a 260 REM & a 6.5 Grendel but no man bun hair do & i know the CM is not a super cartridge, hunted pigs & deer with all of them & love the 6.5x55. its a mans cartridge.

@rdog
You haven't got enough hair for a manbun mate but you could always buy a wig to join them.
Bob

 

[F. Vaccaro]

I must admit i do have a 6.5 CM & 2 6.5x55s a 260 REM & a 6.5 Grendel but no man bun hair do & i know the CM is not a super cartridge, hunted pigs & deer with all of them & love the 6.5x55. its a mans cartridge.

I like the 6.5 Creedmoor, and know it's not a kill anything at any distance. What I have with the Creedmoor is a 6.5X55 in a readily available package! Flip a coin, the ballistics are almost identical. Run it down if you want, it was developed as a target cartridge & excels there. It crosses over into the hunting field quite well.

 

[Marcos Rodriguez]

hahahahaha.... "flat calibers"... here in my country there are a lot of hunters who spend their time talking about the benefits of their "tighter" calibers... They do nothing but bore the others, they are all more or less the same, you just have to make a good impact and that's it

 

[CBH Australia]

I like the 6.5 Creedmoor, and know it's not a kill anything at any distance. What I have with the Creedmoor is a 6.5X55 in a readily available package! Flip a coin, the ballistics are almost identical. Run it down if you want, it was developed as a target cartridge & excels there. It crosses over into the hunting field quite well.

A readily available 6.5 package, yes it's that because of the R&D and marketing of the reinvention of the wheel.

It's just it isn't have the history or class of the Swede round.

Haven't owner either but that's my gripe.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The advantage the Swede has over the CM is the same the 30-06 has over the 308. Pushing the heavy bullets. Meaning the 155-160s

 

[shootist~]

I don't know about all brands, but my Tikka 6.5 CM is set up for seating bullets out long. That was one of the design criteria, as I recall. Both chamber and magazine. It shoots the 155 gr Lapua Mega very well.

 

[thriller]

It would seem after 13 pages the simple answer to the original question of this thread is no we cannot.

 

[cash_tx]

It would seem after 13 pages the simple answer to the original question of this thread is no we cannot.

I'm not sure what we'd do with ourselves if we could not have such pointless discussions. ;-)

 

[Tbitty]

...and confirmed by the young man behind the gun counter at Cabela's, so the matter is settled. ;-)

I often find myself entertained by the workers at sporting goods stores offering to help me find something, or giving advise to me or other patrons.

For you Parks & Rec fans, I feel like Ron Swanson in a Hardware store.

 

[Tom Leoni]

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Vs. 6.5x55 - the discussion is moot. There's no question that the 6.5x54 is by far the best in its class as a sporting cartridge and the awesome rifles it came in...

(The kudu was not taken with it... but it was a joy to carry on that epic day.)

 

[colorado]

500 Jeffery, sighted 2.5" high at 100 pretty much dead on from 25 yards to 200, only 15" holdover at 300 yards lol

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Using MPBR and comparing apples to apples (Nosler Partitions only), let's put this concept to bed for good. In common small bores, there is no practical difference in trajectories out to 300 yards, so PLEASE stop talking about it. It isn't even remotely interesting.

For people new to the sport, to me, the hands down winners of best cartridge selection are 7mm-08 and 6.5CM, simply due to a lack of recoil. Neither of them gives up any ground to any of the other popular hunting cartridges.

For the 270 fan bois out there, sorry, it ain't all that and a bag of donuts. It's good, but no better than any of the others.

cartridge	MV (fps)	Zero distance (MPBR for 8" target, in yards)	bullet	bullet weight (grains)	100 yard trajectory	100 yard energy	200 yard trajectory	200 yard energy	300 yard trajectory	300 yard energy
270 Winchester	3050	282	Partition	130	3.2"	2295	3.6"	1954	-1.3	1654
270 Winchester	2850	268	Partition	150	3.4"	2344	3.3"	2023	-2.5	1737
7mm-08	2800	261	Partition	140	3.4"	2087	3.1"	1779	-3.3	1507
6.5CM/6.5x55	2700	255	Partition	140	3.5"	1972	2.9"	1709	-3.9	1474
308 Win	2850	262	Partition	150	3.4"	2276	3.2"	1903	-3.2	1579
30-06	3000	275	Partition	150	3.3"	2530	3.4"	2124	-1.9	1771
7mm RM/280 AI	3000	289	Partition	150	3.5"	2596	3.9"	2241	-0.8	1925

If you are limited to hunting only in flat country, thick woods or other places where 300 yards would be a very long shot, there isn't that much difference in most cartridges that would be used on deer sized game. The problem here is that not every one hunts in such country. Hunting in the open, rugged country of the Western US along with other places where 300 yards is not an especially long shot, it becomes a very important issue.
Big canyon country requires flat shooting calibers. Yes, I've killed three mule deer bucks in open sage brush country, but doing that required passing on much better bucks. Sometimes you just cannot get closer than 300 yards. I do not advocate shooting at an animal at further that 400 yards and don't personally shoot at animals further than that, but sometimes it's take the shot or go home with the tag. The last big country mule deer I shot was at 384 yards with a .300 Win. Mag. If I had been carrying my 7-08, which is a cartridge that I like a lot for different country, I would not have taken the shot and come home with an intact tag. The last animal that I shot in Africa was at the request of the property manager that was an impala ewe at right at 300 yards. A female impala at 300 yards is not a big target, and again I would have turned down the shot with the 7-08.
So you see it all depends. Sometimes a cartridge with a "flat trajectory" is an extremely important issue.

 

[sgt_zim]

Of course, but probably 2/3 or 3/4 of all US hunters live in the east, and most of those will never hunt the wide open country out west.