Calibers that make your Professional Hunter shudder

[1dirthawker]

With so much at stake I am still scratching my head over all of these bad outcomes where most could be corrected with a preflight of the gear and demonstrated competency prior to the hunt. Instead we exclude the most lethal calibers because African DG hunters can’t be trusted to competently operate their rifles as well as bring the appropriate ammo.

first as stated above, many hunters think they are already doing things well, whether they know better or not.
second, the PH is trying to make a living and is VERY unlikely to tell a client that he is unwilling to hunt with him because he is not as familiar with his rifle/ammo combo as he would like!

would you? i don't know what you do for a living but being super critical of a paying customer who really wants your services, would you send them away? so, the PH makes the mental note to "get the client closer" or "be ready or quick with a follow up shot" etc.

we as clients should do our best, but many of us don't actually know what that is sometimes and/or are unwilling to do it due to time constraints, distance from the gun range availability of ammo, etc.

i have spoken to several long range shooters that advocate shooting at some far distance. the first question i ask them is how far away is your bullet traveling 1900 fps? (the lowest velocity that most bullets will operate at) and why would you shoot past that? most of them were unable to answer that. then we would have a discussion about their hunting style of longish shooting at game. whether any of them changed their mind or their ways i don't know but was always surprised that they did not know that simple and most important fact.

btw, long range hunting is not really done much in africa, thankfully.

 

[Philip Glass]

I'm not saying it is the bees knees, it is way more capable then you are stating. It gets bad press because people make bad shots. They think because they have a 6.5CM it should be the Hammer of Thor. As long a the bullet cuts hair the animal should fall over dead. Have killed and have watched many kills with a 6.5CM. If you put the bullet where it's supposed to go (and use the correct bullet for the job), it performs like it should. I have seen from a Porcupine to a Bison killed with a 6.5CM not hearsay witnessed when my sons pulled the trigger.

I agree with what you are saying. The problem is that Africa is not like shooting at the range and many marginal shots must be taken on a true hunt. You cant always have the ideal shot set up. This is where a bit more gun helps. I had a friend who is a great shot take his 6.5CM with us on safari and he had to track multiple animals on that hunt.
Of course there are those who just shoot from the back of the truck while on safari and then you can likely have the perfect setup for using a smaller caliber.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Muzzle brakes are universally disliked on safari first of all. Then the calibers can be all over the place and everyone has different experiences. Too big and too small are discussed in these conversations. This is why for PG I like to recommend 7mm Mag and .300Win. You just cant go wrong!

 

[rigbymauser]

I don`t know when the "Weatherby" became a taboo among PH`s in Africa?.
I have used a .270Wea for many types of softskinned non dangerous game. The game reacts like they become electricuted when stung by the bee. The late Andrew McLaren was not really surprised...he used a Sauer made .300Wea. So he knew weatherby calibers work...or atleast some of them. Andrew however was not really found of european deerhunting calibers like .308, 243s. Even though Andrew had a .308w he rarely used it. Andrew on the other hand smiled when I asked about the .303British. Andrew was as I knew him a "grassveld jagter".

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

It’s interesting to note that experience, or lack there of, plays a major part in sorting out rifle and bullet selection prior to a first African Safari. There are plenty of competent people on this site looking for helpful information and support. These members likely have experience hunting in other places and may have hunted other countries.

I wasn’t blissfully ignorant, nor am I incompetent, but I did need help planning my
first Safari. I was fortunate to have reassurances from my outfitter as well as advice from a friend who was a prolific hunter with many Safaris to his credit. At the time I wasn’t a member of AH, so I didn’t benefit from the vast experience offered here.

I have been in camp and shooting schools with some real dipshits! And, some of those can’t be helped! That’s when I really feel for a PH or the Owner/Operators…

 

[Qc_BearHunter]

While at the airport in JNB, I met an old men who was at his 40+ trip to Africa.

Being a gun nutz, I did not resist to get up and took an eye on what he had in his gun case.

Rifle was an well used Remington 700 BDL topped with an plain and simple Leupold 3-9X40.

I asked him wich caliber.

He said: It's a thirty ough' six.

I gave him back a smile.

Beware the man with only one rifle they say?

 

[Art Lambart II]

I’m not a PH so I can’t speak for them but there are a few things that cause me concern when I see them in hunting camp. Shiny new rifles with limited or no use prior to the hunt, pristine hunting boots, rifles chambered in the latest ultra-velocity round using cup and core bullets, high magnification scopes (above 9x) on a hunting rifle, and finally untried kit.

Convention season is rapidly approaching, and we have the chance to meet and talk to dozens and dozens of outfitters and PH’s. After you’ve decided who to talk to a second time ask them what they expect in a client, hunting with a PH is a team sport, if you don’t know what the other half of the team needs and expects it makes being successful that much harder.

 

[Jay Kelley]

Haven't hunted with African PH (yet) but my experience with American guides is that false confidence and bravado makes them shudder. Even if you are fairly experienced, your guide knows more than you do, at least about the area you are hunting. As for hard kicking calibers, I'm a bit recoil sensitive so I'll stick with .30-06 and .375 H&H. They get the job done for me.

 

[Inline6]

With so much at stake I am still scratching my head over all of these bad outcomes where most could be corrected with a preflight of the gear and demonstrated competency prior to the hunt. Instead we exclude the most lethal calibers because African DG hunters can’t be trusted to competently operate their rifles as well as bring the appropriate ammo.

Most of it can be summed up in one word "Ego".

I agree with what you are saying. The problem is that Africa is not like shooting at the range and many marginal shots must be taken on a true hunt. You cant always have the ideal shot set up. This is where a bit more gun helps. I had a friend who is a great shot take his 6.5CM with us on safari and he had to track multiple animals on that hunt.
Of course there are those who just shoot from the back of the truck while on safari and then you can likely have the perfect setup for using a smaller caliber.
Philip

@Philip Glass what bullets was he using? The bullet makes the difference. People have taken Eland with a 6.5CM, is it idea? I would say no.

 

[JPmbogo]

I am a firm believer in attending SCI, DSC, or even local SCI type sponsored dinners where you can meet with whomever you will hunting. That way you can discuss in detail what you want to hunt, your own experiences, and with what you are comfortable shooting. Also, the "golden rule," meaning who is paying "calls the shot," to speak, within reason, of course.

 

[TKessel]

@Kevin Peacocke,

the truth is, incompetence does happen, but the best shot in the world, with a perfect placed shot on a tough angle with a fast magnum and a SUPER SOFT bullet will equal a wounded animal. The bullet is what matters. all that time, effort, money, sweat and then you send a bullet at super high velocity that is not made for the speed it is fired at and proper penetration, wound channel and lethality are NOT accomplished. result is a wounded animal. i have slowly but surely become less and less of a fan of the super fast magnums because hunters will shoot bullets thru them that are not made for the stresses involved with impact on a med-large plains game animal.

not a critique of you, just a refinement of your thought encompassed in my never to be humble opinion.

True!!!

 

[318AE]

An iron sighted double rifle, with the right barrel chambered in 460 Weatherby, and the left barrel in 458 Win Mag. Both barrels fitted with muzzle brakes. The 460 barrel loaded with 350gr Hornady RN bullets at 3500 fps. The 458 WM barrel loaded with circa 1960 Winchester factory ammo. An almost unused pair of Courtney boots and a nice new shiny wide brimmed hat will complete the package. Your PH will LOVE you!

And this Paso Robles Rigby shirt!

 

[colorado]

I am a firm believer in attending SCI, DSC, or even local SCI type sponsored dinners where you can meet with whomever you will hunting. That way you can discuss in detail what you want to hunt, your own experiences, and with what you are comfortable shooting. Also, the "golden rule," meaning who is paying "calls the shot," to speak, within reason, of course.

Agree! I was an assistant guide in my 20s in the Bob Marshal Wilderness. I've only been on guided hunts three times all in the last 5 years. One guide said shoot shoot! I put my rifle down and gave him a withering look. I asked him if he was a caddy in the U.S. Open would he say shoot shoot, while his golfer was on the first tee? The animal was too small and I took a much better one two days later ...

 

[Philip Glass]

Most of it can be summed up in one word "Ego".

@Philip Glass what bullets was he using? The bullet makes the difference. People have taken Eland with a 6.5CM, is it idea? I would say no.

I am sure it was Hornady factory.

 

[dchum]

I don`t know when the "Weatherby" became a taboo among PH`s in Africa?.
I have used a .270Wea for many types of softskinned non dangerous game. The game reacts like they become electricuted when stung by the bee. The late Andrew McLaren was not really surprised...he used a Sauer made .300Wea. So he knew weatherby calibers work...or atleast some of them. Andrew however was not really found of european deerhunting calibers like .308, 243s. Even though Andrew had a .308w he rarely used it. Andrew on the other hand smiled when I asked about the .303British. Andrew was as I knew him a "grassveld jagter".

It is more the big bore Weatherby cartridge's that give Weatherby the stink in Africa. Considered Over bore and so much recoil. A scope mark on the forehead is known to be called "Weatherby's Kiss" as many inexperienced hunters don't know how to shoot their brand new shiny 460. wea Mag.
.
The 300 wea and your 270wea really aren't that much different than their counter parts and im sure are great.

 

[mdsalern]

first as stated above, many hunters think they are already doing things well, whether they know better or not.
second, the PH is trying to make a living and is VERY unlikely to tell a client that he is unwilling to hunt with him because he is not as familiar with his rifle/ammo combo as he would like!

would you? i don't know what you do for a living but being super critical of a paying customer who really wants your services, would you send them away? so, the PH makes the mental note to "get the client closer" or "be ready or quick with a follow up shot" etc.

we as clients should do our best, but many of us don't actually know what that is sometimes and/or are unwilling to do it due to time constraints, distance from the gun range availability of ammo, etc.

i have spoken to several long range shooters that advocate shooting at some far distance. the first question i ask them is how far away is your bullet traveling 1900 fps? (the lowest velocity that most bullets will operate at) and why would you shoot past that? most of them were unable to answer that. then we would have a discussion about their hunting style of longish shooting at game. whether any of them changed their mind or their ways i don't know but was always surprised that they did not know that simple and most important fact.

btw, long range hunting is not really done much in africa, thankfully.

I’m not one to try to shoot at maximum range, but I had always used 1000lbs of energy as my cutoff on whitetail deer. I hadn’t considered the speed required for bullet performance. Thank you for giving me that perspective.

 

[Longfeather]

Before my first trip to Africa (Zimbabwe for plains game) back 20 years ago my PH asked me what rifle I was bringing. I told him I was bringing a 300 Win Mag. He told me that it was a very good all-around choice especially for the animals I was planning on hunting. He then asked me what bullets I was planning on using. I said I normally shot Nosler Ballistic Tips. He suggested I use ammo with Barnes X, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, or Swift A-frames in that order. Barnes TSX were the easiest to get so that's what I loaded up/tuned to get as best a group as I could out of my rifle. They worked flawlessly. Longest shot taken was about 200 yards.

20 years later I'm still using the same TSX bullets and load out of the same 300 Win Mag. Never had an issue using them on any of the plains game I've shot. I also use them in my 375 for DG and also in my double rifle (yes, I know.....blasphemy ☺). It is the bullet that does the job.

 

[ChrisG]

I brought my 6.5x55 on my elk hunt as a backup for myself, my dad and my brother. I was using a .300 win mag as a primary and my dad and brother had .30-06's. When the outfitter asked what calibers we brought I told him. My outfitter replied that "We have seen a lot of elk never recovered because of the light hitting power of the 6.5s" and recommended that we don't break our primary rifles before basically telling me that if I needed to use it, the guide would be hamstringed because they would want me within 200 yards. Will the 6.5 kill an Elk/Eland/Wildebeest...etc.? yeah... yeah it will. But when I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on a hunt, I give myself every advantage practicable. I am bringing my .375 Ruger on my next elk hunt, just because I learned on my previous one not to bring a nice walnut stocked, blued rifle on a horseback hunt, because it will be all scuffed up at the end of it. My .375 is the only all weather rifle I own.

My experience is that outfitters are just as wary of people bringing too light of a caliber as much as they are people who have overgunned, or worse "over-scoped" themselves. But this isn't a new trend. You can find accounts of Brits showing up in BEA with a .256 Netwon for a lion hunt at the turn of the 20th century. Again, not saying it wouldn't kill... but it probably wouldn't kill efficiently enough for the task at hand and increases the likelihood of drawing blood, but not recovering the animal.

 

[Bas]

I brought my 6.5x55 on my elk hunt as a backup for myself, my dad and my brother. I was using a .300 win mag as a primary and my dad and brother had .30-06's. When the outfitter asked what calibers we brought I told him. My outfitter replied that "We have seen a lot of elk never recovered because of the light hitting power of the 6.5s" and recommended that we don't break our primary rifles before basically telling me that if I needed to use it, the guide would be hamstringed because they would want me within 200 yards. Will the 6.5 kill an Elk/Eland/Wildebeest...etc.? yeah... yeah it will. But when I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on a hunt, I give myself every advantage practicable. I am bringing my .375 Ruger on my next elk hunt, just because I learned on my previous one not to bring a nice walnut stocked, blued rifle on a horseback hunt, because it will be all scuffed up at the end of it. My .375 is the only all weather rifle I own.

My experience is that outfitters are just as wary of people bringing too light of a caliber as much as they are people who have overgunned, or worse "over-scoped" themselves. But this isn't a new trend. You can find accounts of Brits showing up in BEA with a .256 Netwon for a lion hunt at the turn of the 20th century. Again, not saying it wouldn't kill... but it probably wouldn't kill efficiently enough for the task at hand and increases the likelihood of drawing blood, but not recovering the animal.

Not being up to date on ear protection, aren't there devices that when used can allow conversation but shut out muzzle blast ? Any shooting done around others should always be the time for use of protection by all. That should be the given standard. I use soft plugs when hunting. If you soak them in water before insertion, their decible reduction is greatly increased. On the 460 topic, my 460 with the Pendleton brake hurt me less, with less muzzle climb than my Browning Stainless Stalker 375 h&h shooting 300 gr. Swifts.

 

[steve white]

Maybe the best PH gift would be electronic ear muffs...