Calibers that make your Professional Hunter shudder

[Safari Dave]

Is there something out of order with an open sighted double rifle?

Not at all, if the client knows how to use it and is a well-practiced rifleman.


I think many PH's get rich first-timers, who don't have a clue about the rifle and ammo that their local boutique gun shop sold them for their first trip to Africa and, literally, don't even know how the rifle works.


I am a fly-fishing outfitter, and we have a few customers each year who show up with a $2,000 rod and reel outfit, tell us that they have fished all over the world, but can not make an accurate 30 foot cast. Some, literally, do not know how to catch a bluegill on a live worm under a bobber.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

Analysis of this thread indicates the overall opinion would be DG best practices would include: A quality scoped magazine rifle in a caliber you are confident and proficient in shooting under stress. The ammo must be appropriate and tested. A fitness level that will allow you to go all day carrying your stuff often in heavy cover and high ambient temperatures. No muzzle brakes ever.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

Not at all, if the client knows how to use it and is a well-practiced rifleman.


I think many PH's get rich first-timers, who don't have a clue about the rifle and ammo that their local boutique gun shop sold them for their first trip to Africa and, literally, don't even know how the rifle works.


I am a fly-fishing outfitter, and we have a few customers each year who show up with a $2,000 rod and reel outfit, tell us that they have fished all over the world, but can not make an accurate 30 foot cast. Some, literally, do not know how to catch a bluegill on a live worm under a bobber.

If this level of incompetence is so common would it not be prudent for the PH to require a demonstration of proficiency in camp prior to the hunt? I always did this with my kids.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

Not at all, if the client knows how to use it and is a well-practiced rifleman.


I think many PH's get rich first-timers, who don't have a clue about the rifle and ammo that their local boutique gun shop sold them for their first trip to Africa and, literally, don't even know how the rifle works.


I am a fly-fishing outfitter, and we have a few customers each year who show up with a $2,000 rod and reel outfit, tell us that they have fished all over the world, but can not make an accurate 30 foot cast. Some, literally, do not know how to catch a bluegill on a live worm under a bobber.

I assume the optic on a double rifle is sighted for the regulation distance. This means the POI will be different in both azimuth and elevation for any other distance. I guess this means the Hunter will have had to pattern his rifle for various distances and have that pattern committed to memory. Is this how it works?

 

[Safari Dave]

I think all good PH's want to see their clients shoot before hunting.

If all they have is an open-sighted double, then it's a "show me what you can do" scenario.



It's much more comfortable, if they can "make sure the scope didn't get knocked off sight during transport" situation.






Concerning an optic on a double...

Either in memory or written on a "dope card" in the hunter's pocket.







I know myself and my open-sighted double well enough to know that I have no business attempting a a shot past 50 yards with it. I love it, but mine is for close-range and I know it.

 

[Sarg]

Doubles are meant to shoot parallel after regulation with the regulated loading, until falling to the ground (in theory) the term regulation used for sights is a slightly different thing & the sights are filed/adjusted to a rifles load .

PS how is your .577 BPE, Light Nitro Double shooting @Thomas Rutledge

 

[Red Leg]

I assume the optic on a double rifle is sighted for the regulation distance. This means the POI will be different in both azimuth and elevation for any other distance. I guess this means the Hunter will have had to pattern his rifle for various distances and have that pattern committed to memory. Is this how it works?

In my case, no. I sight my S2 on the right barrel. In .375, sighted 1.5 inches high at 100 yards, I have a 200+ yard sight setting with the left barrel only a couple of MOA off - pretty decisive.

My .470, on the other hand, delivers a 2.5“ LxR\LxR at seventy yards. That is about my max certain range with that rifle over open sights.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

Doubles are meant to shoot parallel after regulation with the regulated loading, until falling to the ground (in theory) the term regulation used for sights is a slightly different thing & the sights are filed/adjusted to a rifles load .

PS how is your .577 BPE, Light Nitro Double shooting @Thomas Rutledge

Thanks, shooting quite Nicely. I have not patterned it beyond 50 yards. It’s lethal at 50.

 

[wiltznucs]

We all try to make good choices when selecting our rifles, but are there some choices that a PH would rather we NOT have made? Certainly concerning DG, but also recommendations that minimize wounded/lost plains game as well. A poor choice could not only cause unnecessary suffering to the prey, but also cost the hunter a lot of money in hunting days lost while tracking down wounded animals--and sometimes another hunting partner has days put on hold while tracking is underway.
It may be difficult to accept that PHs don't value our "sacred cows," but better to hear the truth as they have long experience on the ground?
And I wouldn't consider it OT for bullet choices they plainly disapprove of...

I’d heard the stories of PH’s not liking Weatherby Mags. So I was a bit worried when I showed up with a 300 WBY. Brake and all. A 20 year old first generation Ultralite. As a lefty; we don’t have many options.

We headed to the range on the first day. We set up for a 100 yard shot. Rather quickly; I got set up on the bench and sent one round down range. He replied, “I cannot see it. Shoot another”. I replied, “I know exactly where it hit”. We walked to the target, it was dead center in the bullseye. My 14yo daughter; always quick to inject her opinion said “That good enough?” A hunter from Tennessee said “I’ll just use his gun”. LOL.

The Weatherby went on to make quick work of a Sable and Nyala using 180gr Barnes TTSX that week. Dropped where they stood.

As luck would have it; my PH was also a Weatherby guy. He carried a 460 WBY on my Buffalo hunt.

I know there’s some fashionable Weatherby hate; but, there’s no denying their efficacy in the hands of someone who knows how to use them.

 

[John Wasmuth]

I’d heard the stories of PH’s not liking Weatherby Mags. So I was a bit worried when I showed up with a 300 WBY. Brake and all. A 20 year old first generation Ultralite. As a lefty; we don’t have many options.

We headed to the range on the first day. We set up for a 100 yard shot. Rather quickly; I got set up on the bench and sent one round down range. He replied, “I cannot see it. Shoot another”. I replied, “I know exactly where it hit”. We walked to the target, it was dead center in the bullseye. My 14yo daughter; always quick to inject her opinion said “That good enough?” A hunter from Tennessee said “I’ll just use his gun”. LOL.

The Weatherby went on to make quick work of a Sable and Nyala using 180gr Barnes TTSX that week. Dropped where they stood.

As luck would have it; my PH was also a Weatherby guy. He carried a 460 WBY on my Buffalo hunt.

I know there’s some fashionable Weatherby hate; but, there’s no denying their efficacy in the hands of someone who knows how to use them.

That’s true with any firearm.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Somebody please educate me.......

Why all the hating on muzzle brakes?

 

[Tanks]

Somebody please educate me.......

Why all the hating on muzzle brakes?

Loud. Most of the time PHs and trackers do not have hearing protection.

 

[1dirthawker]

Somebody please educate me.......

Why all the hating on muzzle brakes?

before this last spring bear hunt, i disliked them quite a bit because of the blast, noise, etc. they are easier on the shooter, but tough on everybody else.

this spring my hunter with a 338 ultramag touched off his first round and left me feeling like somebody had dropped a flash bang grenade next to me.

i was able to get a couple decent shots on the bear (this all started at 30 yards) thru pure instinct, pure luck in my opinion. had that bear charged i really don't know how thing would have turned out. the blast really disoriented me. if an elephant/buffalo charged and your shot disabled your ph to some degree, stitches or worse might be required.

keep in mind, african ph's are guiding 10 times or more the animals that american guides do and are around 10 times more shooting, and muzzle blast and.....you get the point. it is hard on their ears for sure.

 

[Red Leg]

before this last spring bear hunt, i disliked them quite a bit because of the blast, noise, etc. they are easier on the shooter, but tough on everybody else.

this spring my hunter with a 338 ultramag touched off his first round and left me feeling like somebody had dropped a flash bang grenade next to me.

i was able to get a couple decent shots on the bear (this all started at 30 yards) thru pure instinct, pure luck in my opinion. had that bear charged i really don't know how thing would have turned out. the blast really disoriented me. if an elephant/buffalo charged and your shot disabled your ph to some degree, stitches or worse might be required.

keep in mind, african ph's are guiding 10 times or more the animals that american guides do and are around 10 times more shooting, and muzzle blast and.....you get the point. it is hard on their ears for sure.

Exactly. Also, for a PH who is a dangerous game guide, his hearing is critical to the safety of his client and tracker. A follow-up in the thick stuff is often an exercise in directional hearing far more than it is one of vision. Tinnitus and partial deafness are not value added conditions in such situations.

 

[JimP]

Somebody please educate me.......

Why all the hating on muzzle brakes?

On my first safari we headed over to the shooting range and the look on my PH's face and a couple of others when I pulled out my rifle with the muzzle brake on it was worth the trip. It was kind of like, here's another one. I took my turn at the range and then once I knew that my rifle was shooting where it was suppose to I unscrewed the brake and put the protective cap onto the muzzle.

My PH walked over to me and thanked me for doing that. I just told him that off the bench that brake helps a lot but that when I am out hunting I never do hunt with the brake on. I have also never felt the recoil of that rifle when shooting at a animal.

A person needs to be considerate of others when using a brake. As was mentioned the blast around it is intense and your PH and tracker most times will not have any type of hearing protection other than his fingers

 

[Nevada Mike]

I believe that most PHs like clients who can shoot and have reliable rifles that they are familiar with.
My PH had little experience with the 404 Jeffery (most clients bring a .375 for DG). He was very impressed with the 404J on buff - thought it was a faster killer than a 416R. I would not know as I never shot a buff with a 416.
I made a number of one shot kills on PG using my 7mm RM. PH liked that I shot it reasonably well.

 

[BourbonTrail]

One note, if someone is thinking “why can’t the PH just plug his ears?”: I had to shoot my 416 off my PH’s shoulders because the tracker (80yds away) had the sticks. He couldn’t plug his ears, and a brake would have blown out his eardrums.

Food for thought.

 

[1dirthawker]

before this last spring bear hunt, i disliked them quite a bit because of the blast, noise, etc. they are easier on the shooter, but tough on everybody else.

i meant to add this later, I hate em now!

 

[Bearskinner]

I get a lot of raised eyebrows when I show up with a 8” barreled revolver with a brake.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

I bought a 460 Weatherby recently. After reading threads here I took the brake off forever.