Calibers that make your Professional Hunter shudder

[rookhawk]

Nighthawks story about his Safari with the .243 pretty much sums it up, at least for me. It’s not the caliber of the rifle used, in question, but rather the caliber of the Rifleman.
Most people are probably over gunned, it seems to be a common theme here.

Often times both over gunned AND overloaded. Guys get a gun they can’t handle and then have an extra hot load made for it compounding the problem.

460 weatherby is definitely the stereotype for the loathed gun by many PHs For a variety of reasons. First and foremost, many clients cannot handle the recoil and those that can are often very delayed in getting off a second shot.

So many “normal” calibers exist with excellent capabilities for a variety of game, its sort of a warning sign to a PH that good judgment may be lacking if the client has something very big and very weird as a firearm.

 

[shark_za]

The issue with the 6.5 CM is the idea that people must use high BC long range bullets in it.
A 156gr Norma Oryx will flatten anything short of Eland in a satisfying manner.

 

[PeteG]

As many have said, the big weatherby magnums, although very effective, are seldom shot well enough by clients.

The .458 Winchester Magnum and .416 Remington Magnum are despised by some white hunters (although to a much much lesser extent now than in the 1980s) who hunt in hot places like the Zambezi valley.

I'm not sure about this. many consider the 416rigby and 416remington to be most capable and effective.
Bar 1 or 2 ph's, no others that i know have complained of the 458wm not being suitable for clients hunt needs.

Wildcat cartridges will sometimes be looked at apprehensively, as often is the case, they are re-inventing the wheel for the most part.
That is also a case of proving to the ph that you can shoot it well and it is going to be reliable. Being new, unknown, "special", it will be mostly apprehension.

 

[Rubberhead]

A discussion thread on calibers and bullets is like flypaper for cliches.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

It’s a little alarming to think as is indicated in this thread, the number of African hunters who show up in the field with a rifle they knowingly can‘t handle. That seems to be the issue here rather than calibers themselves. While I understand many would not choose the larger calibers I also understand some will master types like the 460 WM and the big nitro calibers and shoot them well.

 

[PARA45]

I'll say the rifle and caliber the client cannot handle and shoot accurately. It doesn't matter if it is a Weatherby, a Creedmore, or Rigby, if the client cannot shoot it accurately.

 

[Puddle]

The 6.5 Creedmoor, because people expect too much from it. Not a good round for anything larger than a blesbok. Yet the latest hype and then lore about moose in Sweden dropping with the 6.5 Swede has fueled way too many people to think it's up to par for the bigger animals.

Huh.

Last 2 seasons I've fired 4 shots, and dropped 4 elk using that tiny 6.5 Creedmoor.

The reason? After 20+ years I finally decided I was under gunned using a .257 Roberts.

In 30+ years I've yet to come across a cartridge that ever killed a single critter.

Choose your bullet. Carefully.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

@NIGHTHAWK ... To be clear: I have no issue with the caliber. In fact, I am considering taking a single shot pistol in .243 on a Sitka blacktail hunt in a couple weeks. That was simply a pre-emptive shot on behalf of another forum member. My thing is and always will be shot selection, bullet construction, and being honest about one's own personal limits.

 

[xausa]

On my first two African hunts I took three rifles with me, my wildcat .505 SRE, my Krieghoff O/U double rifle in .458 WM, with extra barrel sets in .375 H&H and 20 gauge 3" Magnum and my pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .300 H&H. I used the .458 WM caliber the least: I took one elephant with it. The elephant dropped at the first shot, but remained active on the ground trying to get up, until I finally subdued him. I used the .375 HH&H caliber barrels on eland and kudu (greater and lesser) and the .300 H&H on all the rest of the plains game.

My .505 performed well on elephant and rhino. Both it and the Krieghoff were stocked according to my specifications and handled beautifully. My second and third elephants with the .505 were both one shot kills.

On my third hunt I experimented somewhat with plains game, using a Mauser 7X57 and a Krieghoff combination gun in 12 gauge/ .222 Remington, both of which were quite effective on appropriate game.

For instance, I used the .222 on my Klipspringer, and the 7X57 on bushbuck and wildebeest, all one shot kills.

 

[Deleted member 40394]

My ph didn’t like a .308. But we were shooting distance.

 

[mdwest]

My ph didn’t like a .308. But we were shooting distance.

How much distance?

For pretty much anything up to eland, I'd be absolutely comfortable shooting any of my .308's out to 300M or more.. using a barnes 168gr TTSX

More than 300M and Im going to be hesitant to use anything (I prefer to stalk in and get closer rather than take 300M+ shots.. while I haven't hunted the Kalahari or Namibia, etc where there the only shots available might be north of 300... I have yet to see a shot in limpopo, NW province, etc where you couldn't reduce a 300M gap by a substantial amount (the longest shot I think Ive ever taken has been about 250M.. most have been closer to the 100-150M range)...

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

@NIGHTHAWK ... To be clear: I have no issue with the caliber. In fact, I am considering taking a single shot pistol in .243 on a Sitka blacktail hunt in a couple weeks. That was simply a pre-emptive shot on behalf of another forum member. My thing is and always will be shot selection, bullet construction, and being honest about one's own personal limits.

Oh, Bob? No offense taken. I like Bob, respect his opinions (most of them) , enjoy reading his posts or replies and appreciate his sense of humor. He’s a great contributor!

I’ve been a member at AH for some time, but in the beginning I was reluctant to post or reply because I really didn’t think I had much to offer… I just read what was interesting or topical and tried to apply what was helpful.

As a practice I try to post or reply in a way that is helpful. Primarily with firsthand experience.

I’ve taken my .243 on 2 Safaris and specifically at the request of my PH. Just about every PH or landowner who’s concession I’ve hunted, that sees my .243, tells me they have one. In most cases (I’m told) it was the first rifle or caliber they took an animal with… My PH probably just wants my ammo!

I don’t knock anyone for their rifle or caliber of choice -as long as they are ethically hunting with them. If my definition of ethically hunting is different than others, then that is likely a different discussion!

When I post, or reply, I try to encourage others based on my experience or their circumstance. Now, if I read an unusually story that doesn’t add up, I’ll ask a few questions to help others understand. From time to time there are some magical yarns spun on here that seem far fetched. As a community dedicated to ethical hunting I believe it’s our collective duty to validate these claims - as politely as possible!

Rest assured, I’m certain my next Safari post will not be: .22-250 On Safari…

Don’t hold your breath on the .243!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

As many have said, the big weatherby magnums, although very effective, are seldom shot well enough by clients.


I'm not sure about this. many consider the 416rigby and 416remington to be most capable and effective.
Bar 1 or 2 ph's, no others that i know have complained of the 458wm not being suitable for clients hunt needs.

Wildcat cartridges will sometimes be looked at apprehensively, as often is the case, they are re-inventing the wheel for the most part.
That is also a case of proving to the ph that you can shoot it well and it is going to be reliable. Being new, unknown, "special", it will be mostly apprehension.

Allow me to elaborate. There are still a few older white hunters who hold grudges against the .458 Winchester Magnum for the problems which the ammunition (as produced by Winchester and Remington) encountered in the 1950s until the 1990s. In regards to the .416 Remington Magnum, it's critics are mainly those who hold grudges against the caliber for it's pressure problems during the 1990s (at a time when the only commercially manufactured rifles in this caliber, were Remington Model 700s).

That's why I said "SOME white hunters". And that too, to a far less extent than they hated these two calibers in the past.

 

[Red Leg]

I am not sure if caliber has been the issue anywhere I have hunted. The topics that will come up around the fire in the evening are muzzle brakes (not "breaks!") which are generally and genuinely despised by every PH or guide with whom I have ever come in contact, and unfamiliarity with the rifle - recoil management and speed and accuracy of the first shot are the usual subsets. My old PH and friend in Mozambique would be quick to add a client showing up for his first dangerous game hunt with an open sighted double rifle.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

I am not sure if caliber has been the issue anywhere I have hunted. The topics that will come up around the fire in the evening are muzzle brakes (not "breaks!") which are generally and genuinely despised by every PH or guide with whom I have ever come in contact, and unfamiliarity with the rifle - recoil management and speed and accuracy of the first shot are the usual subsets. My old PH and friend in Mozambique would be quick to add a client showing up for his first dangerous game hunt with an open sighted double rifle.

Is there something out of order with an open sighted double rifle?

 

[Red Leg]

Is there something out of order with an open sighted double rifle?

Of course not. I own several.

Unfortunately, in his experience at least, too few who bring them are particularly good at using them. They often are limited by the use of open sights with which they all too often have had little practical experience. Our modern day buffalo hunts are typically seven to ten-day affairs. When the only viable shot at a bull on day six or nine requires threading a bullet 70-80 yards into dark brush at an old bull standing in the shade with three or four of his buddies, an open sighted rifle, regardless of action is rarely the optimal tool for the task. The same applies to the open stretches of marsh in places like the Zambezi Delta or Caprivi where getting inside fifty-yards of an animal is often impossible. He would tell you in great and colorful detail that the most likely scenario to lead to a dangerous follow-up in his experience is a botched first shot from a double.

I have used mine for buffalo and plains game. Though that particular rifle is a scoped Blaser S2 that delivers 4-shot (LxR/LxR) composite groups under 2" at 100 yards. It is not a traditional double.

But sure, if the client has great familiarity with both the sights and the rifle, and he has the discipline to not take marginal shots, then by all means bring a traditional double.

 

[Christian Davis]

Is there something out of order with an open sighted double rifle?

As sportsmen, I think we owe it to the PH's and to the game animals to put in the best first shot that we can. For many, that probably means a scope. This calls for humility and honesty on the hunter's part. It can be difficult to put aside nostalgia and pride. I mean no judgement toward any particular hunter, and of course each person should be guided by his own conscience and knowledge of his own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Doug3006]

I have never had anyone, PH or otherwise criticize my choice of rifles, ammo, scope, or any other hunting or shooting equipment.
On my first plains game sAFARI, i HAD 6 ONE SHOT KILLS WITH MY RUGER .338 wIN mAG. mY HUNTING BUDDY USED THE .338 FOR A ONE SHOT KILL ON A big BULL ELAND.

oN MY FIRST dg HUNT WITH MY 1895 .405, FIRST SHOT THROUGH TGE HEART AND SECOND THROUGH THE PELVIS TO DROP THE CRITTER. DRT.

i MAY TEND TO USE A LITTLE MORE GUN.

I once had a discussion with a PH in Namibia about the best choice for plains game. He strongly supports the 338 Win Mag. Loves it when clients show up with one.

 

[Christian Davis]

A discussion thread on calibers and bullets is like flypaper for cliches.

I agree with you. If only people would heed the cliched advice, there might be less wounded game and more happy hunters.

 

[steve white]

As sportsmen, I think we owe it to the PH's and to the game animals to put in the best first shot that we can. For many, that probably means a scope. This calls for humility and honesty on the hunter's part. It can be difficult to put aside nostalgia and pride. I mean no judgement toward any particular hunter, and of course each person should be guided by his own conscience and knowledge of his own strengths and weaknesses.

Our eyes are getting older every year. In many cases that means the rear sight needs to be moved down the barrel to Battue position in order for us to focus well. It is not easy or cheap to have soldered in rear sights moved, and the old position covered up. The light is supposedly different in Africa, which is an allusion to trouble with open sights. Better know you are good with them or as you say, let humility influence wise decisions regarding scope sights. (true 1x-4, 6, or 8 power are wonderful--great field of view at close range, and don't worry, the PH will constantly ask you if the power is turned down.)