Calibers that make your Professional Hunter shudder

[Tanks]

Maybe the best PH gift would be electronic ear muffs...

Problem with electronic earmuffs is that you lose the direction of the sound.

 

[expresshunt]

Calibers that someone cant hit target with.
Muzzle brakes.. noooo.. please leave that blasting rifle home, luckily only seen 3x in 25 years and 800 DG hunts. Deafness is permanent. Ear damage is permanent.
No one lasts more than 2 days walking around in heat with ear muffs on..!!
For 100 years we havent needed muzzlebrakes for hunting dangerous game.. please young people dont start now. If recoil scares you, then... ... ... down size, and practice hunting positions (less bench)..

Other shudder items.
Loaded rifles often pointed at the guides back.. and others.
Loaded rifles pointed at people mistakenly during the act of 'reloading' or often.. unloading.
Clients who know better.. eg "please carry a flashlight"... ignore or "no"... trip, crash..!!
"Let the staff pour the drinks please"... "no"... trip, crash..!!
Doubles and people tripping over... loaded barrels bouncing on rocks in my direction.
Safety catches that disengage against clothing etc.. (some rifles)..
Clients who arrive with no sling.... mucho ones.. for a multi days hot walking hunt.
DG client wearing both leather work gloves.. why... because we have a double..?? Ok we understand one glove on fore end and for hot barrels, but for the trigger finger.. really..!!
My friend back home loaded this great ammo for me... Spire (deer) Points for Buffalo..!!
I only need 1 pair of (15yo) boots.. failed.. hmm.. but they were ok in africa 3 years ago..!!
Thin socks or new boots... not sure why I have raw bleeding boney blisters... hmmm, every step is extremely painful.. (and we have to stop infection).
Bullets in loops on one side... a knife handle on the other side... and a rifle slung down rubbing its nice finish off...
"Dont shoot until the...." boom...!!
" Dont shoot until Im over..." boom..!!
Bullet loops worn upside down... true..!!
I left my day pack back there..... ......!!!
Rifles leant against thin trees (wind blows, tree moves, rifle falls onto hard ground or rocks).
Client who removed all water and soft drinks from the vehicle cooler... and replaces with ALL beer (for self only)... yes this happened, and he wasnt gunna change either..
Client arrives in new country city, a few hours before shared charter flight... (international or domestic) flight delay... so a missed charter.. much more $$$$s... (happens often) SO- Always arrive 1 or 2 days early as instructed.
Others picking up others rifles,... please ask..
Others cleaning your rifle.... please dont.
Boots melting in campfire.
Political talk..
Clients leaning back in safari chairs.. always ends real bad.
Sorry, off subject here.. but does make me shudder..

 

[deewayne2003]

Somebody please educate me.......

Why all the hating on muzzle brakes?

Early in my whitetail guiding days I had a client show up with a Browning BAR .300win with BOSS brake system; which per my requirement we sighted in the evening before the hunt…

I was pleasantly surprised that he was both accurate and competent with the rifle.

The next morning I was glassing in one direction and suddenly heard the unnerving CLICK of a safety being disengaged, I look over and see the client has his rifle up and BOOM!

I am instantly blinded by the flash, my ears ringing and I am basically inoperable for several seconds and can best describe it as being “punch drunk” for what seemed like an eternity and after finally regaining equilibrium(I had to sit down to keep from falling) I realized the client had time to put on his full ear muffs but not enough time to warn me about the pig he was going to shoot at.

I bit my tongue and didn’t say a word until we got back to the truck and pulled a ball peen hammer out and placed it on the seat between us waiting for the question to be asked….

“What’s that hammer for?”

That hammer is what I’m going to beat you with the next time you fire that rifle without both my approval and earmuffs in place!

So yes I whole heartedly agree with the hatred for muzzle brakes, but more especially when you see them on weapons that DO NOT need them.

Let me put it this was… When the client pulls out a brand new Kimber .270Wsm with a muzzle brake on it, you know it’s gonna be a long day!

 

[expresshunt]

Shudders:
Muzzle breaks are fine for if you are practing and it helps a recoil conscious person to shoot a .400 group instead of a .500 group...
Also good if its important with your monster tactical scope to see each shot appear.
Also good for varminting, with good ear protection and eye protection (for dust and sand clouds).
Use double ear protection when shooting next to your mate.
Also good if you dont like guns that kick... (hey.. they all kick..)
Tell other people at the range to walk away another 10m.. as they ain't gunna be on the bench next to you.. if they do, they might just hate you...

Ive witnessed a BOSS 338 being shot in a line up of 4 guys at a hunting club social day, doing a big game rifle event (at a quary on a farm), first shot the guys either side fell over from their kneeling positions.. the blast was horendous, I was RO 5m back and my average earmuffs bounced back on one side and it was damn loud. So we all left the line, and stood way back, he finished shooting. .. then the rest finished.. it was an open area not a range shed.

 

[expresshunt]

Shudders:
But.. yes muzzle brakes are good for practice.. to help some people who need it to shoot larger calibers. Great in certain places, like a typical mountain hunt with a kicker...
But bush and walking hunting is a different story:
Stalking with a guide, the guide won't like it ( infact he/she/X hates them).
If caught unawares,.. ie deewaynes story.. then it hurts, and a bit more permanent damage is added.
My last scare was a hunter with barrel braked 375H&H.. I had a battery angle grinder at camp and genuinely offered to cut it off. After he shot in a hurry twice he also wanted to cut it off. Next hunt he had a normal rifle.
Removable ones are a great idea.
When stalking a quick shot opportunity can be lost, when the braked hunter ( courteously) hesitates to check that all persons now have their muffs on.. animal is gone..
At Buffalo camp.. its funny to see ( only happened 6 times in 25 years) people with electronic muffs.. They walk around in the heat with them on ears for half a day.. then on head or around neck for half a day. Then in daypack next day. Then day 3 all heavy items are tipped out of daypack, and left in tent.
Personally (as we're all different,) I use and supply, the small sonic ear plugs for hunting outdoors.. I'm the guy who buys all the $9each stock at Cabelas and Sportsman's when Conventions are on.. (back home they at +$45 each) Then when we approach a likely spot or an animal we pop in the plugs, and can still hear, and these capture the main damaging boom.
But beware.. sonic plugs have a diaphram that the sound wave hits and it closes... however if shooting at a covered range, verandah or over a vehicle bonnet.. then reflected or multiple sound waves bounce about and pass through the ear plug.. which is designed to stop only one main sound wave. So it's not the fault of the plug, they should just be used when walking and stalking hunting.

 

[ChrisG]

Muzzle brakes are great. For tanks and heavy artillery. I actually don't want to practice with a brake on then hunt without it. If I can't handle the recoil while practicing, I am not going to shoot well with the brake removed because now I am wondering how hard I am going to get hammered when the animal is in front of me. If you can't handle a .300WM without a brake, shoot a .30-06 or a .308. If you can't handle a .375 H&H without a brake, shoot a 9.3x62.

I do understand people who have medical conditions and I don't think a brake is a deal breaker for them, but the guy who wants his cannon to kick like a .243 so he doesn't have to be the least bit uncomfortable... yeah that is unnecessary IMO. Recoil of the level we are talking about never actually physically hurt anyone except maybe a scope bite... so recoil tolerance is 100% mental. Work you're way up to where you want to be, and by the time you get there, you will be fully familiar with your rifle as well... WIN-WIN

 

[expresshunt]

Shudder:
I used to think a 3006 kicked.. then I progressed fast up the ladder.. As I've carried and used a few 500 Jeffery rifles etc.. then everything smaller is now pleasant to me..lol.
I know a rifle will kick back so far, and jump a bit.. So I expect it.
Last trip to Africa, my mate took the scoped 416 and 500 double. I took the plains game rifle, which I decided might be in my hands on elephant, so I loaded a 375 with Hydros and shot from Hippo to Diuker. The Eli didn't eventuate. But Hippo hunting is awesome. Damn thick skinned and huge.

The Wartog was trotting at 175yrds, offhand.
The Croc was across a river in reeds 190yards.. had to brain it, shot prone.
The Duiker was running in cover 50yds.. offhand.
The Hippo was running 75yds, brained.. shot off sticks.
Wildebeest was moving 140m.. prone.
Zebra was still 180m.. prone.
Come to think of it.. never a tree rest around at the time.

 

[Mark R]

9.3x62

 

[Woodcarver]

Not being up to date on ear protection, aren't there devices that when used can allow conversation but shut out muzzle blast ? Any shooting done around others should always be the time for use of protection by all. That should be the given standard. I use soft plugs when hunting. If you soak them in water before insertion, their decible reduction is greatly increased. On the 460 topic, my 460 with the Pendleton brake hurt me less, with less muzzle climb than my Browning Stainless Stalker 375 h&h shooting 300 gr. Swifts.

I use Walker's plugs when hunting, molded plugs when at my range. The Walker's do allow regular conversation while blocking most of the gunfire. They do muffle a conversation a bit, but doesn't require yelling at each other like the molded plugs do.
Foam plugs soaked in water would have been frozen in my ears 5 minutes out of camp this year; might have taken 15 minutes last year. It must be a bit warmer where you hunt....

 

[Forrest Halley]

Problem with electronic earmuffs is that you lose the direction of the sound.

Not true. The Howard leight green ones are pretty good at that. The walkers I have not so much. I've spent a lot of time slipping around with the Howard Leight and they are good to go for directional. I'm not certain how it works. But it does.

 

[booker]

I'm not saying it is the bees knees, it is way more capable then you are stating. It gets bad press because people make bad shots. They think because they have a 6.5CM it should be the Hammer of Thor. As long a the bullet cuts hair the animal should fall over dead. Have killed and have watched many kills with a 6.5CM. If you put the bullet where it's supposed to go (and use the correct bullet for the job), it performs like it should. I have seen from a Porcupine to a Bison killed with a 6.5CM not hearsay witnessed when my sons pulled the trigger.

Agree lots of beast have fallen to my 6.5 Creed! I love that thing I practice and shoot it well has dropped Aoudad at 500yd to pigs at 50. You put it in the pumphouse and the story gets real short.

 

[booker]

My last trip I took a newish 300PRC with a wicked muzzle break. It did not make people happy that happened to be near when that bad boy went off. Everyone gave me bad looks every time it barked. But it will be remedied this winter with a nice suppressor.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Agree lots of beast have fallen to my 6.5 Creed! I love that thing I practice and shoot it well has dropped Aoudad at 500yd to pigs at 50. You put it in the pumphouse and the story gets real short.

Well that'll do with most any caliber. Even the Bush Lord Townsend Nelson's @Bob Nelson 35Whelen other favorite...say it with me every one: TWO-FOUR-THREE! What you really need is something that still has the juice to seal the deal on the not so optimal hits. Of course the man bun is wind proof and also defies gravity.

 

[ChrisG]

Well that'll do with most any caliber. Even the Bush Lord Townsend Nelson's @Bob Nelson 35Whelen other favorite...say it with me every one: TWO-FOUR-THREE! What you really need is something that still has the juice to seal the deal on the not so optimal hits. Of course the man bun is wind proof and also defies gravity.

Here you go. A cull elk taken at 60 yards, with a .30 cal FX Impact, shooting what I assume are 60ish grain slugs, at somewhere south of 1000fps. All that for a whopping 110-120 ft-lbs of energy. He has the advantage that the Impact is stupidly accurate. Just goes to show that under the absolute perfect circumstances, you can get away with a lot less gun. Me, I tend to always pack for the worst possible circumstances.

Yes my old 6.5x55 did penetrate much better than it should have, but it still feels small when a big black bear is in front of you. And it could HANDILY outperform the little creedmoor. I still carry a .375 when bear hunting and the .45 super as a "go-into-the-honeysuckle-and-fish-out-the-wounded-bear" backup.

 

[Woodcarver]

Here you go. A cull elk taken at 60 yards, with a .30 cal FX Impact, shooting what I assume are 60ish grain slugs, at somewhere south of 1000fps. All that for a whopping 110-120 ft-lbs of energy. He has the advantage that the Impact is stupidly accurate. Just goes to show that under the absolute perfect circumstances, you can get away with a lot less gun. Me, I tend to always pack for the worst possible circumstances.

Yes my old 6.5x55 did penetrate much better than it should have, but it still feels small when a big black bear is in front of you. And it could HANDILY outperform the little creedmoor. I still carry a .375 when bear hunting and the .45 super as a "go-into-the-honeysuckle-and-fish-out-the-wounded-bear" backup.

Another stunt. Not even as good as a 22. Here's a pic of the energy and velocity of what he was shooting. A 22LR would generate more energy, and has been used to kill untold numbers of animals. "Just goes to show that under the absolute perfect circumstances, you can get away with a lot less gun" is very true. I prefer this approach, "Me, I tend to always pack for the worst possible circumstances." Think that's a much better way to approach hunting.
I do want a good pellet rifle though. Some of these new ones are pretty impressive for velocities and accuracy. On proper sized critters, they are the cat's meow.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I do not know of any Zimbabwe PH that would wear them.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Here’s my 2cents, in 23 years of full time African guiding I do not have an adverse reaction to any caliber a client might bring.

In my experience adverse reactions from my side is mostly due to choices and to clarify bad choices.
DG:
460 Weatherby, 500Nitro, 600’s or 375’s I honestly could not care less which firearm a hunter brings.
The most important factor which should be taken into consideration is whether the hunter is proficient with the caliber he intends to use…. PERIOD.

Plainsgame:
I support the exact same theory, why bring a super duper whizz bang 165gr bullet/caliber traveling at light-speed. When you are going to be taking shots of 15 - 80 yards in dense bush?
Visa Versa Why bring a 303 British when you will be taking 300m shots at a minimum?

In my experience most rifles shoot better than the hunters or shots that use them, I know all of mine do.

In short I reckon utilizing the appropriate firearm for the appropriate conditions is the key.
Being proficient with said firearm will enable you to start a battle half way to victory.

As far as muzzle breaks are concerned it gives me the opportunity to plug my ears

My very best as always
Jaco.

 

[ChrisG]

Another stunt. Not even as good as a 22. Here's a pic of the energy and velocity of what he was shooting. A 22LR would generate more energy, and has been used to kill untold numbers of animals. "Just goes to show that under the absolute perfect circumstances, you can get away with a lot less gun" is very true. I prefer this approach, "Me, I tend to always pack for the worst possible circumstances." Think that's a much better way to approach hunting.
I do want a good pellet rifle though. Some of these new ones are pretty impressive for velocities and accuracy. On proper sized critters, they are the cat's meow.
View attachment 502444

I'm going to say... energy isn't everything. Get an air rifle! My FX impact is a .25, 700mm barrel, and a slug power kit installed. regulator is set pretty low and I have the power set up about half way. I am chronographing a 40 grain NSA slug (Bullet) at 975fps. It will probably push a 50 grain slug supersonic if I wanted it to. It hits with the same energy at 150 yards as your chart is showing for muzzle energy for the JSB 33.95 grain. I don't even own a .22 anymore because the FX is more accurate at 150 yards than any previous .22 I had was at 50 yards. It will ethically take anything from mice to coyotes.

report like dropping a pencil on a desk, hits like a hammer and even really good ammunition is as cheap as it gets. What's not to love?!

That said, I will stop distracting the thread. I love air rifles and sometimes it shows a little too much.

 

[uplander01]

I'm not a PH, but I would say the choice of rifles should start early on in the conversation when safari planning. And if a client has a specific idea or "dream" it should be addressed and a plan for preparation should be constructed. Many of us do this by nature because we have been doing it since childhood, but I'm sure there are guys out there that take up big game hunting like some guys take up golf....they figure if they show up with the right kind of gear they can fake it until they make it. Just not so when hunting critters that can fight back.

My last safari was a case in point. I had the idea that I wanted to shoot 2 buffalo with express sights at close range. I stated this up front so it was on the table. My PH and I had a good discussion about my experience level and what I planned to do to be ready. It was comforting to me that we had this level of communication, we also talked about fitness level which I was more concerned about him than myself in that regard. I had initially planned to use a DR but half way through what I term the "8-12 week" training period leading up to the hunt I felt I was not proficient enough with the double, so I switched gears and went with a GMA 500 Jeff bolt rifle. I proceeded to have 3 range sessions a week until I had gotten at least 200 rounds through it (off sticks) and had my hand loads tweaked to perfection. This is what I would consider a minimum to get ready for a safari.

This is when it gets interesting and an example of the f*^(*_((* up stuff that can happen. Of course my bag with the ammo in it got lost before it reached JoBurg. Big issue, where to get 500 J ammo, that's all I cared about. Safari Outfitters -Pretoria, kudos brothers for taking care of me and having what I needed. Literally had to re-buy everything that was in that bag including clothes and binos. Bummer having to spend 2 extra days delaying our time to get to camp in Zim but so be it. Now, I was not only trying to accomplish a major goal of mine at close range on buff, but now trying to do it with Norma factory ammo and 570 grain bullets which I know the rifle didn't favor, (and I hadn't used factory ammo for anything in 25 years), because I tried them. Blah , Blah, got to camp and headed to the range. Gary asked what range the target needed to be set up, I said 50 yards. This was our first hunt together, so being the jokester that I am, couldn't resist setting the rifle on the sticks, but unknown to him did not chamber a round,....focused in, flipped the safety off and proceeded to do a camera worthy flinch to a click. The look on his face was priceless. After my wife and I I stopped laughing, I chambered a round and sent one downrange. 1 " high and 1" left. I felt like the luckiest guy in the world at that moment. Everything was going to work. Put the scope on, sent another round downrange, same point of impact. At this point all the trouble we went through to get there went away....and I accomplished my goal.

Moral of the story, if we can preach one thing, it would be to master your equipment. Know it in and out. Practice, practice, practice. There will always be something else that can go wrong, make sure you do as much as you can to eliminate the possibility of it being your rifle and your ability to operate it effectively. IMO, there are guys that can shoot 460's, 500's, 577's, 600's etc, but there are way more that can't. Figure out which guy you are and make your ego OK with it.....your EGO should be checked at the door as soon as you step foot in camp and prepare to go into battle with your PH. Much less about the caliber, more about the man behind the rifle and what he's done to "be ready".