Boeing Aircraft

[Hogpatrol]

DEI, another one bites the dust. From Elon Musk.

Boeing prioritizing diversity and inclusion over flier safety, Elon Musk says after near-catastrophic Alaska Airlines mishap

Beginning in 2022, the aircraft manufacturer changed its incentive plan from giving executives bonuses based on passenger safety, employee safety and quality to rewarding them if they hit climate a…

nypost.com

 

[B0MBOY]

I’m sure shifting the focus from safety to skin color doesn’t help and is absolutely a step in the wrong direction. But that’s only exacerbating the deeper problem that the airline industry as a whole has a very shallow technical bench right now. They have people with decades of experience and people with no experience and nothing in between. And this is industry wide from boeing all the way down to the aluminum supplier. Covid forced the final few experienced people out. Now we have majority new engineers and all they know is build to the specs/print.

 

[IvW]

If only they did build to specs.....

 

[rwp315]

After reading this, not a warm and fuzzy feeling flying in a Boeing aircraft. In the meantime, Airbus is eating their lunch. Wonder how long it'll be before they'll be on their knees in Washington, like the Big Three, asking for a bailout.

The Crash of Two Airplanes and the Crisis at Boeing (Published 2021)

Peter Robison’s “Flying Blind” tells the full story of two air disasters and Boeing’s role in the crashes.

www.nytimes.com

View attachment 440924

An AirBus did a precautionary landing departing Florida yesterday, i think, for a door light.

 

[Jim Golden]

Believe what and whom you want. That is your affair.

The notion that the US government could keep such a secret coverup for three decades is farcical. It is equally ridiculous that either William Perry or William Cohen would be party to such a conspiracy.

I had assumed this clown was latching onto the terrorist scenario. But you are correct. A US Navy shootdown and cover-up is far more interesting.

Redleg, I was a Boeing engineer back in the 90's. I knew guys that were on the taskforce to look at the remains of Flight 800. They told me, quite clearly, and showed me pics, that it was a missile hit with the warhead set to "not" detonate. It just punched a hole through it. Right by the wing root. Easily visible in the pictures of the reconstruction. Call me crazy...but this is what they told me. I worked in Structures and then later External Loads.

After reading all this, I want to fly my Bonanza to Africa

 

[Jetjockey]

All this talk about the MAX, and everyone forgets about the estimated 600-650 Airbus NEO’s currently grounded because their Pratt Engines are garbage.

As far as the MAX accidents, in at least one of the two accidents the plane impacted the ground near vertical with Take Off thrust still applied. In another (may have been the same one as I forgot the exact details) the pilots didn’t follow policy and engaged the stabilizer trim multiple times, even though the checklist calls to deselect the Stablizer Trim switches from normal to Cut out, and trim the airplane manually. Now, I’m not making excuses for Boeing and their botched MCAS, but, I flew the exact scenarios as both 737-MAX accidents, and it was a none issue in the SIM. BUT, that’s the problem with many Asian/African carriers. They over-rely on the automation, and forget basic stick and rudder flying skills. I have over 1000 hours in the max, and absolutely love flying the airplane.

 

[Brent in Az]

FAA officials found a softball sized hole above the engine on a 747 that made an emergency landing in Miami Thursday night

 

[Hogpatrol]

All this talk about the MAX, and everyone forgets about the estimated 600-650 Airbus NEO’s currently grounded because their Pratt Engines are garbage.

As far as the MAX accidents, in at least one of the two accidents the plane impacted the ground near vertical with Take Off thrust still applied. In another (may have been the same one as I forgot the exact details) the pilots didn’t follow policy and engaged the stabilizer trim multiple times, even though the checklist calls to deselect the Stablizer Trim switches from normal to Cut out, and trim the airplane manually. Now, I’m not making excuses for Boeing and their botched MCAS, but, I flew the exact scenarios as both 737-MAX accidents, and it was a none issue in the SIM. BUT, that’s the problem with many Asian/African carriers. They over-rely on the automation, and forget basic stick and rudder flying skills. I have over 1000 hours in the max, and absolutely love flying the airplane.

IIRC, it was 100% pilot error in the two MAXs that augered in.

 

[Brent in Az]

Redleg, I was a Boeing engineer back in the 90's. I knew guys that were on the taskforce to look at the remains of Flight 800. They told me, quite clearly, and showed me pics, that it was a missile hit with the warhead set to "not" detonate. It just punched a hole through it. Right by the wing root. Easily visible in the pictures of the reconstruction. Call me crazy...but this is what they told me. I worked in Structures and then later External Loads.

After reading all this, I want to fly my Bonanza to Africa

I've watched about 4 hour's worth of documentary, and eyewitness testimonials, on flight 800.
There are credible witnesses who saw something streaking upward from sea level seconds before the fuel tank erupted on Flight 800.
But then again, I'm a conspiracy theorist, and Red Leg is always right about everything under the sun.. ..lol

 

[Rimbaud]

One could argue that an extraordinary amount of so-called shareholder value has been destroyed by executives who are alumni of GE.

 

[fourfive8]

Prior to the Max design, the mngt at Boeing were desperate to keep up with Airbus. The results have been obvious. Took an existing design then tweaked it instead of designing ground up. Compensating patch upon compensating patch between hardware and software. This latest door plug blowout thing while not related to the trim override protocol problems that crashed the first two, it certainly points to endemic problems within the entire industry.

 

[Jetjockey]

Prior to the Max design, the mngt at Boeing were desperate to keep up with Airbus. The results have been obvious. Took an existing design then tweaked it instead of designing ground up. Compensating patch upon compensating patch between hardware and software. This latest door plug blowout thing while not related to the trim override protocol problems that crashed the first two, it certainly points to endemic problems within the entire industry.

Boeing did the exact same thing Airbus did. I’ve been told Boeing needed 20-25% efficiencies over the Next Gen 737 in order to spend the billions required to develop a new airplane. Composite fuselages on smaller planes don’t save as much as they do on larger planes like the 787, and by simply re-engining the NG and increasing some aerodynamic aspects of the NG, the MAX gained 18-20% efficiencies. The 2-5% efficiency gain of a new airplane didn’t make economic sense. Not to mention, I’ve also heard Boeing is waiting to see what happens with hydrogen, and they believe that may be the next power source for engines. It didn’t make sense to design and build an entirely new airplane, only to have it possibly be outdated the first day it hits the line.

 

[flying sailor]

Redleg, I was a Boeing engineer back in the 90's. I knew guys that were on the taskforce to look at the remains of Flight 800. They told me, quite clearly, and showed me pics, that it was a missile hit with the warhead set to "not" detonate. It just punched a hole through it. Right by the wing root. Easily visible in the pictures of the reconstruction. Call me crazy...but this is what they told me. I worked in Structures and then later External Loads.

After reading all this, I want to fly my Bonanza to Africa

Don't believe the Taylorcraft I used to own would make it that far- even with the optional 12 gallon wing tanks.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

A few months ago, I met a recently retired airline pilot at a dinner. I asked him what was his favorite plane to fly and also what his least favorite plane was. His favorite was the Boeing 757. He explained that the 757 can takeoff with full fuel load and full passenger and luggage load. No trade offs needed. His least favorite was the 737 and that sort of surprised me. He explained that the more recent variants of the 737 have bigger engines, further forward and lower to the ground. It's less forgiving and less margin for error in landing.

 

[Jim Golden]

I worked there when "MD bought Boeing with Boeing's money." They gave us a hamburger from the Boeing Cafe for lunch the day it all wrapped up..."The Merger Burger." We couldn't believe they didn't kick Stonecipher out. They made him the COO. That is when Boeing's corporate slogan changed from "Higher, Further, Faster" to "Sharevalue." WTF was "Sharevalue?" I'm an aerospace engineer. I care about higher, further, faster, build the best product you can build. Not padding some guy's wallet. They harped "Sharevalue" endlessly. It's all you heard. I used to meet with airlines looking to buy jets. Japan Airlines (JAL) was over. One of their execs told a Boeing higher up in the meeting "Stop talking about Sharevalue. We don't care about that. Build the best product, and people will buy it." Boeing used to be about excellence and building the best product you could. The execs were typically pulled from engineering. But after that, they got "business" majors in the higher up places. I quit shortly thereafter. They still have a lot of good people, but they have been making some bad decisions.

My one good friend is a Captain for South West. He was absolutely livid when it came out about the Max. South West Airlines never trained them thoroughly for what to do if the airspeed indicator / pitot / aoa system screwed up. There is a procedure to shut it all off, but it requires multiple steps. There is no almighty red button that you can push to shut off all automation and just handfly the airplane. You have to go through a procedure. He did know it, but he wasn't trained in it. The two that went down overseas almost surely had no training. He told me the Max doesn't have a standard elevator trim like the old ones...it's a servo that moves the entire stabilator with a jackscrew. If the servo malfunctions, it's usually too much for one guy to over ride. Those guys took off, were heavy, it was hot, the system malfunctioned, and they were fighting it trying to figure out what to do....didn't have proper training, and killed a bunch of people. My other good buddy who still works at Boeing said it's all BS, that Boeing included all the info in the manuals, and it's the airlines' faults for not training their folks thoroughly. It's a real mess.

I guess the 757 is a better airplane, but I always liked the 727. From an aerodynamacyst's point of view, the wing is beautiful on those things. And when they did that VALSPAN conversion on them to put the bigger side engines from the MD80 on both sides, it made them a real rocket.

I was in Maui once and saw a Beech Bonanza fly over. I wondered "How did he get it here?" I discovered there are fuel tanks made to fit where the back seat goes. Gives you enough range to fly from LA to Maui in 13 hours and still have a couple hours reserve. I'd like to do that someday

 

[Brent in Az]

A documentary about a guy who owned an aircraft modification business turned smuggler, who outfitted his small plane with extra fuel tanks to fly all the way to Columbia.

 

[Foxi]

Cheap is the magic word.
A good friend of mine has worked at Airbus for many years.
Common practice there - skilled workers out and temporary workers in.
He told me years ago: it's a miracle that more doesn't happen.
Airbus has probably just been luckier than Boeing.

 

[CarsonG]

Cheap is the magic word.
A good friend of mine has worked at Airbus for many years.
Common practice there - skilled workers out and temporary workers in.
He told me years ago: it's a miracle that more doesn't happen.
Airbus has probably just been luckier than Boeing.

When I was training for air traffic control, my trainer told me that if a commercial jet breaks, it’s always an Airbus.

 

[HankBuck]

I've watched about 4 hour's worth of documentary, and eyewitness testimonials, on flight 800.
There are credible witnesses who saw something streaking upward from sea level seconds before the fuel tank erupted on Flight 800.
But then again, I'm a conspiracy theorist, and Red Leg is always right about everything under the sun.. ..lol

Brent, has there Ever been a documentary made where the “Conclusion” was not already decided - before the filming began?. They are all made “backwards” - Start with a Conclusion then find the facts & data points that support it. Also, if it’s Not entertaining (conspiracy theory) then it gets No funding or air time. I would believe the FAA report before any “Oliver Stone” type documentary. That’s obviously my opinion, although I did work with some people in marketing and “investigative” journalists —- all said “the conclusion is written before the research even starts”.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

When I was training for air traffic control, my trainer told me that if a commercial jet breaks, it’s always an Airbus.

Airbus, the Land Rover of the sky..............