At least 50 dead, 200 wounded at shooting on Las Vegas Strip

[Bullthrower338]

Something about this situation doesn't add up. He fits none of the profiles of previous shooters. If it is a mental illness, it will have to something physical causing it (tumor, cancer, CTE, etc). Or he was radicalized.

He was too meticulous, to have snapped. Yet he was too under the radar given his apparent gun collection and shooting abilities. No one has come forward from a gun range, no neighbors saying he was nut, no gun dealers saying he was a regular customer...just a person at Starbucks saying he was angry.

Maybe this a break up, she left the country and he sent her some money out of guilt and then in anger planned the massacre.

Still a lot of unanswered questions.

+1, which one of us wouldn't a Starbucks employee point out as "angry" by the time we finally got a damn cup of black coffee instead of a cockalatte!

 

[Bullthrower338]

I am always leery of the media, but there is a claimed interview of his girlfriends family, who said that they were not comfortable around the guy. He made them feel uneasy.

Hell I made my ex wife's family uneasy! Not because they thought I would light up a bunch of innocent people but that they would have her move back home. Turns out their fear was not unwarranted!

 

[Brent in Az]

+1, which one of us wouldn't a Starbucks employee point out as "angry" by the time we finally got a damn cup of black coffee instead of a cockalatte!

I like my coffee, strong and black, and I refuse to step foot inside a Starbucks. I see a millennial barista, and I just want burst out laughing.

But that's just me.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I like my coffee, strong and black, and I refuse to step foot inside a Starbucks. I see a millennial barista, and I just want burst out laughing.

But that's just me.

100% with you brother!

 

[Dragan N.]

Too much of anything is bad for you, just as surely as not enough of something can be bad. In our case we have so much freedom and so much openness that it is often abused. We end up refusing to address moral and mental health issues in the name of freedom. Then, when we have issues, we have to blame something. Guns, the rich, people who go to church, adults who parent, anything to keep from looking in the mirror and making hard choices.



This is it. It's mental health issues that we don't want to address because we might have to make some hard choices. Rats in a cage....

And, I can't remember a situation yet where the guns weren't obtained legally, and very few where there weren't strong warning signs that were ignored, or missed. Many times current law would have caught the issue, had it been enforced.

We definitely have a mental health crisis that no one wants to address. It isn't convenient, it isn't something that you can put your hands on, amd it doesn't bring liberals big votes in the way gun control does.

Sad.

The cost of health care in the US may have something to do with that. Take a look at the first graph in this article:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-healthcare-comparison-20170715-htmlstory.html

and also at the stat about the cost of various medical procedures in the US vs. in the rest of West such as the cost of a bypass surgery costing double in the US than in other western countries:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/pub.../oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

Now I bring this up because of health care in the US is significantly more expensive than in other western countries it may play a role in limited access to mental health services. Diminished access to it may play some role.

But speaking of mental health look at Sandy Hook for instance. The perpetrator had serious and well documented mental issues and was even at time suicidal. Yet he did not have a firearm's licence but his mother did. If you are living with someone who is mentally ill but you yourself are mentally sound should that preclude you from owning firearms? I mean sure I guess in theory he wasn't supposed to have access to them but in practice if he lives in the same house its very difficult to prevent him from accessing them.

While the Sandy Hook shooter was clearly mentally ill, this was not so clear cut in the case of Columbine. Those 2 shooters they were arrested and convicted of breaking into van to steal computers prior to the Columbine massacre. Yet the psychiatrist and also their probation officer generally found them to be model "deliquents" or probationees. Only one of them was prescribed by a psychiatrist meds for anger management. But they were even let of probation early. Not even trained professionals didn't find anything particularly alarming about them. Its not always necessarily easy to catch a mental illness. They also didn't acquire the guns legally- I think it was one of Harris's ex girlfriends or something who legally bought the shotguns for them. Columbine was made into a big rallying cry for gun control yet I don't exactly see how it is. They acquired the guns illegally. There is no way that whoever sold the gun to that girl, who passed background checks, could have known that she was buying them for someone else and that those people would use them to commit a massacre. They also acquired the tech 9 illegally even if I'm not mistaken having bought it off a private individual.

 

[edward]

odds are we will never know the true facts about this,certainty not from the media or the politicians.

 

[Wheels]

Thankfully most mass murders tend to be inept when it comes to the "mass" part of the equation. Unfortunately, this time it seems the murderer was intelligent and optimized the "mass" through good planning.

There are evil people in the world and unfortunately evil people do evil things. There will always be evil people and we will always be faced with the evil things they choose to do. If firearms are taken away, evil people will come up with other alternatives. Think Oklahoma City and Nice. Both had more people killed than Las Vegas.

We trade our freedom for safety when we board an airplane or walk through security at a sporting or entertainment event. Both of these trade-offs have happened in my lifetime. Over the next few months there will be attacks from politicians and the media on our freedom to bear arms in our every day lives.

The big question for American's is, will we trade our freedoms for safety!

 

[gillettehunter]

I have thought a little about this. My single, biggest fear is that I cannot TRUST our legislators. I would be in favor of SOME additional checks and perhaps time in order to buy a firearm. Reasonable measures, and no I have not thought about what those could be. My problem is that once it starts the whole of our 2nd Amendment rights will come tumbling down as a result.
Here is my example. Wolf reintroduction to WY. Many of us thought that was a stupid idea. The feds came in a swore that X(I fail to remember the exact number) number of wolves was all we had to have and that was it. BULLSHIT. We now have more than 5 times that many. Our wildlife has taken a significant hit and the cost has been in the millions. Court cases. Payment for livestock losses. Biologists to track them. You name it and it has cost $$ that could of been better spent elsewhere.
We can't seem to enforce the laws that we have. How about we simply start there? Then the mental health issues. We have failed to adequately diagnosis and treat many that we should have. I don't pretend to versed on that, but I know it is part of the problem. Again, I just don't trust the Government to make decisions that affect us this deeply on something like this. I like what Wheels had to say:

The big question for American's is, will we trade our freedoms for safety!

I suspect that sums a lot of this up unfortunately. Bruce

 

[Brent in Az]

I don't trust the FBI, anymore than I trust the politicians.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Give an inch they will take a mile! As far as trading our freedom for safety? Taking the means of self defense away from the good guys doesn't make the bad guys throw down their guns and fight fair! I do not attend large events or frequent establishments that do not allow me to carry. I prefer to at least have at least 8 230 grain options to keep myself and family from becoming a victim.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

 

[bilmcc]

Two thirds of American gun deaths are suicide. The next largest groups are domestic violence, and teen and young adult males shot by other young males. There needs to be an appropriate solution for each group of victims. Removing guns solves none of these.

 

[Brent in Az]

There was a very pretty young woman who lost her life in this shooting. She graduated from the U of A, in May, here in Tucson. She had a bright future ahead of her.

Her life was extinguished by the forces of evil. Evil is something that can not be controlled, banned, or detected in a background check.

Politicians know this. At least the ones with an IQ above 90.

Politicians need to quit pissing on America, while trying to tell us it's raining.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I don't trust the FBI, anymore than I trust the politicians.

They earned my disdain when that POS Lon Horiuchi shot Sarah Weaver and the boy in Idaho! If a soldier did that in a combat zone, he would be busting rocks at Leavenworth

 

[edward]

I have thought a little about this. My single, biggest fear is that I cannot TRUST our legislators. I would be in favor of SOME additional checks and perhaps time in order to buy a firearm. Reasonable measures, and no I have not thought about what those could be. My problem is that once it starts the whole of our 2nd Amendment rights will come tumbling down as a result.
Here is my example. Wolf reintroduction to WY. Many of us thought that was a stupid idea. The feds came in a swore that X(I fail to remember the exact number) number of wolves was all we had to have and that was it. BULLSHIT. We now have more than 5 times that many. Our wildlife has taken a significant hit and the cost has been in the millions. Court cases. Payment for livestock losses. Biologists to track them. You name it and it has cost $$ that could of been better spent elsewhere.
We can't seem to enforce the laws that we have. How about we simply start there? Then the mental health issues. We have failed to adequately diagnosis and treat many that we should have. I don't pretend to versed on that, but I know it is part of the problem. Again, I just don't trust the Government to make decisions that affect us this deeply on something like this. I like what Wheels had to say:


i only feel safe if i have my right to fire arms,PERIOD!!!if every gun in the world vanished from this earth we still would not be as safe as we are with the rights to protect our families and self with fire arms.we all aint Chuck Norris etc.this world was conquered many times with out the use of fire arms eons ago. millions of people were killed with out one shot being fired,a very popular guy was murdered by the name of Jesus Christ,no drive by shooting with an ak47 or any other fire arm.a simple hammer and nails.evil will exist as long as their is one living person left on this planet. and some of the worst are politicians like hag and slick that keep stirring the pot.

 

[Ragman]

My heart aches for those who died and the loved ones they left behind. Four of my fellow Canadians were among the number who were killed by this animal. Yesterday I heard a radio interview with a lady from Vegas who held the young Canadian man's hand as he died. She used his cell phone to talk to his parents and girlfriend, then sat with his body for 4 hours until the authorities came because she promised she wouldn't leave him. She is an angel and living proof that people are good. I'm glad I was alone and driving on the highway as the emotion in her voice brought my tears flowing. So many young, beautiful, promising people had their lives ended by this POS.

@Pheroze, you left out a little of the restrictions put on us in Canada to buy and own handguns and certain semi autos. We have both Non-Restricted Possession and Acquisition Licenses and Restricted PALs. I have the NR PAL which allows me to possess and acquire long guns with restrictions as to length and magazine capacity. We would need the Restricted PAL to own handguns and certain semi autos. Even when you do have one, the government has made it so difficult to use a handgun, that I just can't see the point of owning one. We can only legally fire it at a registered firing range. It has to be transported in your vehicle so that you have no access to it from the cab. And you can only travel to the firing range by the most direct route and back home the same way. Can't even stop at the convenience store for a lottery ticket on the way home.

When I went hunting in Texas last year, the fellow that picked me up at the airport, Bud was his name, was asking me a lot of questions about gun ownership in Canada. He said that would never fly in Texas as he patted his truck console and told me that his handgun goes everywhere with him. It's a strange concept for me, as I have never been allowed that privilege, but I like the idea.

No wonder I love the Americans that I've met in my life and the country they call home!

 

[edward]

I have thought a little about this. My single, biggest fear is that I cannot TRUST our legislators. I would be in favor of SOME additional checks and perhaps time in order to buy a firearm. Reasonable measures, and no I have not thought about what those could be. My problem is that once it starts the whole of our 2nd Amendment rights will come tumbling down as a result.
Here is my example. Wolf reintroduction to WY. Many of us thought that was a stupid idea. The feds came in a swore that X(I fail to remember the exact number) number of wolves was all we had to have and that was it. BULLSHIT. We now have more than 5 times that many. Our wildlife has taken a significant hit and the cost has been in the millions. Court cases. Payment for livestock losses. Biologists to track them. You name it and it has cost $$ that could of been better spent elsewhere.
We can't seem to enforce the laws that we have. How about we simply start there? Then the mental health issues. We have failed to adequately diagnosis and treat many that we should have. I don't pretend to versed on that, but I know it is part of the problem. Again, I just don't trust the Government to make decisions that affect us this deeply on something like this. I like what Wheels had to say:

I suspect that sums a lot of this up unfortunately. Bruce

 

[charleslabounty]

I have thought a little about this. My single, biggest fear is that I cannot TRUST our legislators. I would be in favor of SOME additional checks and perhaps time in order to buy a firearm. Reasonable measures, and no I have not thought about what those could be. My problem is that once it starts the whole of our 2nd Amendment rights will come tumbling down as a result.
Here is my example. Wolf reintroduction to WY. Many of us thought that was a stupid idea. The feds came in a swore that X(I fail to remember the exact number) number of wolves was all we had to have and that was it. BULLSHIT. We now have more than 5 times that many. Our wildlife has taken a significant hit and the cost has been in the millions. Court cases. Payment for livestock losses. Biologists to track them. You name it and it has cost $$ that could of been better spent elsewhere.
We can't seem to enforce the laws that we have. How about we simply start there? Then the mental health issues. We have failed to adequately diagnosis and treat many that we should have. I don't pretend to versed on that, but I know it is part of the problem. Again, I just don't trust the Government to make decisions that affect us this deeply on something like this. I like what Wheels had to say:

I suspect that sums a lot of this up unfortunately. Bruce

Exactly Correct ! You can not trust the legislators.
Our Bill of Rights were added to the Constitution for that specific reason.

 

[edward]

i only feel safe as long as the 2nd amendment is in effect,the right to own and use a fire arm for the protection of your family and self is in many cases the only protection you have when you need it.NOW.these whiners about getting rid of firearms forget that the world was conquered many times over eons ago with out the use of firearms,millions of people were killed and not one shot was fired.at 78 or any age,if your not chuck norris,its nice to have an equalizer to get the job done when needed.and less not forget the fun one has when hunting or just shooting rocks for practice.i seem to remember a guy by the name of Jesus christ, not killed in a drive by shooting with an assault weapon,just a hammer and nails.evil will exist as long as man does. and garbage like the hag and slick will keep stirring the pot as long as they continue to slither this earth with the rest of the corrupt politicians.

 

[tarbe]

Liberty is a two-edged sword.

If I want liberty, I must also extend liberty to you.

Your liberty can be abused in such a way that it denies or abuses my liberty.

The alternative is oppression...equally applied to all (except those who oppress).

I choose liberty for all...even with the attendant risks.


Tim

 

[Aaron N]

Now for the feather ruffling....

-If the accused’s skin was anything remotly darker than rosey pink everyone’s would be screaming for travel/immigration bans

-Yes the right to bear arms is your second amendment right, but if Uncle Sam did decide to turn on you would your aresenal really hold a candle to smart bombs, tanks, and the rest of his stockpile?

-Being from Canada, I had no idea what a bump stock, or the trigger cylinder thing-a-magiggy was and had to look them up. This leads me to a conclusion, they have no purpose for hunting or target shooting, so they are a gimmick to be brought out once a year as a laugh. Let’s say without those, that the casualties would have been cut in half. Is that worth less than your right to own such devices?

-@Ragman pointed out our laws on pistols. I can honestly say that I wouldn’t trade the fact that I live in the country where I have never once, at any time, felt the need to have any sort of a wepon on my person for self defence, for the most lax carry laws out there!

No one is coming to confiscate your guns, they are just trying to make it a little harder for someone to kill 58 people in ten min.

I am a hunter, and I am a gun owner.