At least 50 dead, 200 wounded at shooting on Las Vegas Strip

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Despite the relative simplicity of a our laws we haven't experienced the same level of deranged assaults as the USA. So, while I believe that the courses, and police check, may be a soft barrier for some, I am inclined to believe there is a much greater problem that needs to be addressed. Otherwise, it just makes no sense to me.

Absolutely agree with you here. And it's what I've been asking of those I know who want more gun control. If a carpenter you hire to build a house for you is intent on doing a bad job or isn't qualified in the first place, you don't blame his saw or hammer, you blame him. Why so many in the U.S. want to put so much focus on the tool used in the killing and not the killers is beyond my understanding.

This latest nutcase could have taken far more people out by constructing a bomb in a vehicle. I have attended SCI in Vegas for the last few years. This slaughter happened across the street from the Luxor where I've stayed for all of these shows. I can tell you if he'd put a big bomb in the trunk of a car, he could have easily bashed thru the front doors of the Luxor and set it off and perhaps killed far more than he did.

I personally have no use for a full auto. I have shot one once, ironically enough just a few blocks from where this tragedy took place. You can go to any number of ranges in the Vegas area and pay to do this. It was fun to do it once, but can't see I'll ever do it again. So if the government wants to outlaw anyone getting a permit for the full autos as you can now do, go ahead, it won't make any difference to me.

But to believe these mass killings will even be curtailed due to this law is folly for the weak minded.

 

[Bullthrower338]

As a Ford driver who doesn't drink ... it would be a start !

Lol, now that's funny!

 

[Brent in Az]

As a Ford driver who doesn't drink ... it would be a start !

Considering that GM received a boatload of taxpayer dollars as a bailout, I wouldn't mind banning them either.

These companies can receive their financial punishments, just like many of us had to.

 

[Royal27]

It is a really horrible reality that the USA has been plagued by such tragedy recently. I personally find it very confusing, because I honestly find Americans generally to be a very friendly and supportive group. I find Americans will accept different ideas more readily than any other culture. People from all over the globe find a home in the US when their own country does not afford them the ability to thrive. So, this evil is so odd.

Too much of anything is bad for you, just as surely as not enough of something can be bad. In our case we have so much freedom and so much openness that it is often abused. We end up refusing to address moral and mental health issues in the name of freedom. Then, when we have issues, we have to blame something. Guns, the rich, people who go to church, adults who parent, anything to keep from looking in the mirror and making hard choices.

This is a mental health issue, and not gun control.

How do you control the evil in a man's heart?

Many of these deranged individuals obtained firearms legally

This is it. It's mental health issues that we don't want to address because we might have to make some hard choices. Rats in a cage....

And, I can't remember a situation yet where the guns weren't obtained legally, and very few where there weren't strong warning signs that were ignored, or missed. Many times current law would have caught the issue, had it been enforced.

We definitely have a mental health crisis that no one wants to address. It isn't convenient, it isn't something that you can put your hands on, amd it doesn't bring liberals big votes in the way gun control does.

Sad.

 

[tarbe]

Too much of anything is bad for you, just as surely as not enough of something can be bad. In our case we have so much freedom and so much openness that it is often abused. We end up refusing to address moral and mental health issues in the name of freedom. Then, when we have issues, we have to blame something. Guns, the rich, people who go to church, adults who parent, anything to keep from looking in the mirror and making hard choices.



This is it. It's mental health issues that we don't want to address because we might have to make some hard choices. Rats in a cage....

And, I can't remember a situation yet where the guns weren't obtained legally, and very few where there weren't strong warning signs that were ignored, or missed. Many times current law would have caught the issue, had it been enforced.

We definitely have a mental health crisis that no one wants to address. It isn't convenient, it isn't something that you can put your hands on, amd it doesn't bring liberals big votes in the way gun control does.

Sad.

You covered a fair bit of ground there. And I agree...

I must say though that anyone with a combat arms military past, or previous substance abuse issues has to be wary of who gets to decide what constitutes "mental health".

My fear is that regs will be used to disarm certain types of people that might include me and more than a few of my buddies.

If I could trust politicians, it would be a different story!!

 

[Royal27]

You covered a fair bit of ground there. And I agree...

I must say though that anyone with a combat arms military past, or previous substance abuse issues has to be wary of who gets to decide what constitutes "mental health".

My fear is that regs will be used to disarm certain types of people that might include me and more than a few of my buddies.

If I could trust politicians, it would be a different story!!

Agree, it's such a fine line. "Mental Health" is hard to define and it's dangerous to let a politician or government bureaucracy do it. How far do you go and when does it become invasive?

It's a tough issue but it had to be addressed.

 

[Royal27]

Let's also wait to see if this particular issue was mental health, terrorism, or both.

I'm betting both. There is too much that stinks with the woman who seems to have fled the country and the money being transferred.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

You covered a fair bit of ground there. And I agree...

I must say though that anyone with a combat arms military past, or previous substance abuse issues has to be wary of who gets to decide what constitutes "mental health".

My fear is that regs will be used to disarm certain types of people that might include me and more than a few of my buddies.

If I could trust politicians, it would be a different story!!

As a graduate of Virginia Tech these things always hit home for me. I had long since graduated when the shooting happened there, but one of my profs was killed and so this sort of thing always takes me to that. I bring that up because the shooter in that situation was diagnosed with a mental illness by a doctor. And the background checks for the legally bought weapons should have prevented him from at least buying those guns at a store. But it didn't, the system failed.

That said I totally agree with you that many of the politicians want a system that will rely on only accusations with no due process.

 

[BRICKBURN]

A few people with serious mental health issues that made significant positive contributions to society. There are many many more.

 

[Brent in Az]

The whole mental health issue can be a slippery slope. Do you remember after Obamacare came to be, that many Doctors started asking patients about gun ownership? It is not coincidence. If you take any mood altering medication, that is now on record, and you can end up in the Federal database as someone who is mentally unfit to own a firearm. Just like Obama did to some social security recipients. Its backdoor gun control, without due process.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Agree, it's such a fine line. "Mental Health" is hard to define and it's dangerous to let a politician or government bureaucracy do it. How far do you go and when does it become invasive?

It's a tough issue but it had to be addressed.

The line and debate with Public vs Individual rights/duties will always be a moving target.
Line's are always hard to draw. Someone will always be on the other side.
It will require all of you finding and then discussing the facts and then creating solutions.

The vigilance and screening are readily accepted before you board a plane now!
Want to board a plane? You must be screened and your personal liberties are severely restricted.

It is an "easily" established process.
You are evaluated at a repeated point in time.

That process is not so easily applicable to firearms or mental health, so "bans" are the easy policy route.

I sincerely hope you can find a reasonable solution.

 

[Brent in Az]

A gun free society, is a controllable society. Just the way the Democrats want it. A path to totalitarianism.

 

[lcq]

It is a really horrible reality that the USA has been plagued by such tragedy recently. I personally find it very confusing, because I honestly find Americans generally to be a very friendly and supportive group. I find Americans will accept different ideas more readily than any other culture. People from all over the globe find a home in the US when their own country does not afford them the ability to thrive. So, this evil is so odd.

Gun control may prevent the scale of destruction and personal tragedy, but it won't do anything to answer why people from different backgrounds and circumstances decide the right thing to do is to kill as many of their fellow citizens as possible before they die.

In Canada, I cannot buy a full automatic firearm. I could buy any number of semi automatic rifles, as I believe this ass had. I can buy them at the same age. I can buy pistols too. The only difference I can see is that I am required to undergo a two day course with a test at the end. I then submit to a police check. But, after that, there is no further intrusion into my life. I can buy and sell fairly easily.

Despite the relative simplicity of a our laws we haven't experienced the same level of deranged assaults as the USA. So, while I believe that the courses, and police check, may be a soft barrier for some, I am inclined to believe there is a much greater problem that needs to be addressed. Otherwise, it just makes no sense to me.

And, its not economic oppression because this most recent freak was a millionaire. I think most in the past have been middle class.

I totally understand the intent of the 2nd amendment, I doubt it would do any good if the government chose to turn the might of the USA military against its own people.

It's a tough nut to crack, for sure. But inflamed rhetoric will not get to the root of the issue, that is for sure. My thoughts and prayers are with my American friends. This is a very sad situation, just heart breaking.

Never forget what a Japanese general told the Emperor when he wanted to invade the US. "there is a gun behind every blade of grass". the military would never prevail in the ensuing war of attrition.

 

[lcq]

A gun free society, is a controllable society. Just the way the Democrats want it. A path to totalitarianism.

an unarmed man is a subject an armed one a citizen

 

[jeanes]

Anyone over 21 can buy booze, get drunk, and promptly kill multiple people in a drunk driving incident.

Are we going to ban, Budweiser & Chevrolets?

They tried banning booze once. Didn't work. Banning drugs has not been too successful, either.

 

[Brent in Az]

They tried banning booze once. Didn't work. Banning drugs has not been too successful, either.

Prohibition. Take away the booze, and people learned to make it themselves, or buy it on the black market. Same things the bad guys will do about guns

 

[tarbe]

They tried banning booze once. Didn't work. Banning drugs has not been too successful, either.

Yup. And banning guns, or anything close to it, will create an even larger mess than prohibition.

The cure will be a lot worse than the disease. For everyone.

 

[tarbe]

Prohibition. Take away the booze, and people learned to make it themselves, or buy it on the black market. Same things the bad guys will do about guns

And unfortunately, many of us who have been "good guys" for 50 or 60 years will suddenly become bad guys.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Something about this situation doesn't add up. He fits none of the profiles of previous shooters. If it is a mental illness, it will have to something physical causing it (tumor, cancer, CTE, etc). Or he was radicalized.

He was too meticulous, to have snapped. Yet he was too under the radar given his apparent gun collection and shooting abilities. No one has come forward from a gun range, no neighbors saying he was nut, no gun dealers saying he was a regular customer...just a person at Starbucks saying he was angry.

Maybe this a break up, she left the country and he sent her some money out of guilt and then in anger planned the massacre.

Still a lot of unanswered questions.

 

[Brent in Az]

I am always leery of the media, but there is a claimed interview of his girlfriends family, who said that they were not comfortable around the guy. He made them feel uneasy.