Article on heavier vs lighter for caliber bullet penetration

@michael458 , one thing I did notice, and can’t believe you went along with. Some of the bullets you helped design are 375 grain. You couldn’t get them to go up another grain to 376? It amazes me that you had any part of any bullet that has 375 in the name! LOL!
You’ve been a great help to me as well. Keep up the good work sir!
 
Some of the bullets you helped design are 375 grain. You couldn’t get them to go up another grain to 376?
Yeah, in .500 caliber for the Super Shorts, you are right, OMG.......:oops:....... You had to point that out didn't you, I will never look at those bullets the same again......... Right, why could I not just made them 369, or something, just not 37 anything........... Thanks a lot pal....... you ruined my damn bullets now.

Thank you guys, I am glad if I can help in any way at all it is more than enough for me....... I want very much for every single one of you to be successful in all your endeavors, if I can have some small part of helping you get there, it is more than my pleasure to do so, and no thanks needed, nor required.......

Man, you guys gotta ask, but there is just one more Super Bullet that really excites, me, does anyone want to hear about it????? And you can believe this, the people that originally did this bullet I truly do not care for much, in fact, so much so, I would not buy direct from them, but through another vendor, regardless of cost!!!!! So no way in hell I am trying to sell you crap......... LOL

???
 
of course we wanna hear it
HEH......... OK then............ Off we go, one more time.............

In 2006 I was working close with JD to get some decent .500 caliber bullets, and JD was working with Fricke from Lehigh, this was early Lehigh, and JD was guiding everything going on there, without his ideas and thoughts, then they would not have known anything about bullets....... JD had Fricke do some odd looking bullets and sent some to me to give a go........ JD explained that the purpose in the cuts in the meplat was to "move fluids" away from the bullet, causing pronounced hydrostatic shock, and possibly disrupt tissue around wound channel...... OK, good to me.........

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I found in the test work that they did indeed disrupt more than an equal Flat Nose Solid....... What I found was the trauma inflicted, and the depth of penetration was similar to a NF CPS, not the expanding version CPS.......

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In 2007 I was ready with several different types of bullets that JD and I had worked up, late season that year I had 5 buffalo on left over quota and two elephants......... I took the only 20 inch 50 B&M version to be built on the bullet testing mission...... I was very excited about this bullet for buffalo, great penetration, good trauma, I thought it might be the Do All For Buffalo bullet ever needed..... Indeed, it was good, it did everything I asked of it, but it was just not DRT in the dirt big reactions and from that hunt and point I more or less left it behind, moved on to other areas of study..........It was good, but it was not just blow you mind freak out great.........

Many years later, after I actually retired from any serious hunting, I discovered the Current Lehigh Extremes in particular for handguns, I was very enthusiastic about the Lehigh Extremes in 45 ACP.....I have to give great credit to someone at Lehigh to take JD's original designs and take them to the EXTREME..... believe me, it was not Fricke, but someone else at Lehigh, someone did really good.

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Now what you see next is a 45 ACP test, 8.5 inches of penetration is very good in 45 ACP in this medium, Premium Expanding 45 ACP bullets 200-230 gr penetrates to around 4.5--5.5 inches, so a Lehigh Extreme to 8.5 inches is very good..........

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I use these bullets today for a bulk of my 45 ACP ammo, improved the loads substantially, pressure tested and tested in many various types of guns. THis along with the 200 Flat Nose CEB Solids are my favorites for Self Defense, very serious bullets......I also adopted 90 Lehigh and 115 Lehigh for 9mm use, along with the new 115 CEB FN Solids, great for those kind of guns........

Of course this lead to my investigation into other cartridges and calibers, in particular .500 caliber and of course 458 Caliber.............And yes, I started thinking about BUFFALO again, buffalo is never far from my mind when I think about serious bullets....... sorry, just the way it is............I don't sit around thinking about deer bullets...... that is for sure......

Tested 350 gr .500 caliber Lehigh Extremes in 50 B&M and was very impressed with the results......24 inches straight, total of 28, well deep into buffalo penetration ............. Lots of trauma...

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Tested again in 50 Super Short, lower velocity, excellent results again..........

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Over in .458 Caliber I was not disappointed, tested in both the 458 Super Short a 225 gr Lehigh and even it made the grade for buffalo penetration.... yes, a 225 gr .458 caliber bullet, that is insane.....but the test work does not lie............

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Again in the Super Short a 325 Lehigh.........

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I am not finding larger cartridge tests in .458, and I honestly don't recall if I did test or not, but I am very well satisfied that these would make some serious Buffalo bullets, the penetration is there. No, I am retired, I have not used them in the field, but I damn sure would if I was on the way to shoot buffalo again.........

Last Fall I had a B&M Long timevFamily Member (folks that have B&M Rifles/Cartridges), he was asking about what rifle to take for Elk hunt and combined with Bison....... He was all over the place on buying something new, and I told him just use your 458 B&M, you are very familiar with it, shoot it great and it will do everything you want for both.......... My guy is not a shooter, I load for him, and help him set up his rifles...... he wanted a new scope on his gun, he found a 2.5 X10 or something such Nikon, so he sent his rifle and scope, and empty brass..........

My first thought was 250 Socom for the Elk, he would be good with that to whatever reasonable range he would encounter.......... Bison? First thinking 325 CEB Solids, but the POI just did not suit me with the 250 Socom sighted in....... Bison would not be more than 50 yards, but I still wanted them close as possible POI at 50........... I fiddled around with several bullets, no great success.....
Then I saw some 250 gr Lehigh Extremes on the self? Hmmmm...... Light bulb time....... So I tried those and I felt like it would work fine........ Sighted in with the 250 Socom at 50 yards, the 250 Lehigh was 3/4-1 inch right, I am thinking at 50 yards Bison, this will work for him, and I of course sent targets and all the info he needed to be successful, I HOPED.......

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I honestly was on pins and needles the entire time my guy was on his trip...... I had never sent anyone off on a hunt with the Lehighs, so yes, test work was great, but you always have that nagging feeling that if something can go wrong, it might........

First thing on his return, he is sending photos..... keep in mind, my guy is a hunter, not a shooter gun nut bullet nut, so getting in depth info is just not going to happen, but I saw the photos and from what he said things went extremely well..........

I had no doubts about the 250 Socom, it has proven itself for many many years, I even shot cow buffalo with it, hippo in the brain, probably 50+ other animals, another B&M Family member used it on the biggest moose ever killed and it was DRT on the spot, as were most all others that I had taken, and this Elk was no exception.....

Now, here are some comments made to me about the performance........

Michael- yes I’m very pleased with the rifle. Those in camp had never seen anything like it.
Ek- dropped him w one shot w 250 SOCOM. Put an insurance in to be safe.
Bison- Lehigh one shot. That bullet is lethal.

Both one shot affairs, insurance put into the elk. Bison- 65 yards and elk, 95. Very mountainous area, 7500-8000 elevation.


And that is about as much info as I could get on it........ I was told and deciphered about this much .

the Elk dropped to the shot immediately………. The Bison bucked up, then dropped……..Does not seem the Bison went anywhere, just bucked and dropped…..They did not find an exit, and did not find the bullet in the bison….. so that is unknown. No insurance shots, so it seems the Lehigh was rather lethal as stated........

The Elk he took had to be a left over Prehistoric version..........No Rifle in the damn photos, I had a hell of a time teaching "Rifle Photo Etiquette" to some of these guys...... I swear............

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That is about what I have on the Lehigh Extremes......... As mentioned, someone at Lehigh did one hell of a job taking this bullet to the Extreme.... in all test work done, handgun or rifle, the bullet does what it says it can do. It has great penetration, and it disrupts fluids and tissues.

Fricke recently sold Lehigh to Bill Wilson, this is probably a big plus for the bullets I hope. While I have some issues with Wilson concerning 7.62X40, I have found other products great, I exclusively use Wilson 1911 magazines and have for as long as they have been making them, best and most reliable on the market........ I hope they will continue to be more innovative in bullet design, and continue to make these Extremes. I only have this one field experience to back up on, and test work is not as extensive as other bullets have been in the past, however, I have a lot of confidence that one could add this to the tool pouch and have a damn fine bullet to work with. I would not hesitate if I were headed for buffalo country to load these up and give them a try.

I hope some of you guys do so in the future, and report back.............

That is about all I have guys, on Super Non Conventional Trauma Inflicting Bullets..........

I sincerely hope that some of you got something worth while from the efforts, I did when I was in the field, maybe you can too..............
 
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I know you won’t take money because I’ve asked in the past and it has come up on this thread.

But you should seriously consider putting all of your data into a book And SELL IT
So I have been told for years........ but seems I just never get to it, if I ever do, I will send you a copy for free...... LOL....... Hell I will even sign it like I was somebody....... HEH HEH........ Nahhh..... nobody, just a shooter/hunter like the rest of us........ I have so many little shooting projects right now I can't get to everything.... just picked up a neat little 16 inch Rossi 45 Colt lever gun, it took me two weeks to get to the range with it to play with, finally did so yesterday and it if off to a decent start, I am going to have to get with the program and do some decent 45 Colt loads, my old ones are crap........ LOL....I rather spend time on the range...... book writing is intense........
 
Haven't read it yet but generally speaking don't believe anything sold to you by the media. If you believe 180° from what they try to sell you you're closer to the truth. There are some exceptions slightly lighter mono metal bullets performing well but in general heavier for caliber not necessarily heaviest you have to do the math... One great example being high sectional density 190 to 200 grain 30 caliber bullets getting the job done well whereas in most cases using the 220 although it has greater sectional density the lower velocity results in less energy. I can attest to using low sectional density higher velocity bullets on live targets and having them explode on the near shoulder, whereas those heavier for caliber bullets have never failed! 0.29 is good for non-dangerous game but anything 0.30 or above is great for dangerous game or anything in Africa for that matter, although solids will do virtually no damage on the smallest of antelopes. Without even reading it I'm guessing it's just another marketing piece for selling less material for greater profit the way of the guns and ammo manufacturers for quite a while now. The lighter bullets in each caliber are for varmints. Another reason to use the slightly heavier than marketed bullets is the increased BC which results in less velocity loss and ultimately less drop and more energy upon impact. I see a lot of guys using 130 grain bullets in 6.5-270-7 mm when they really should be using 140 grain minimum because there's so much more of an advantage. I get it when the factory and the store are selling them 130s doesn't mean it's right.
I was right with you until I saw the pictures in this thread--some just plain NASTY wounds inflicted by the raptors!! And not just a surface cratering, either. I'm still not over the shock.
 
I also have your experience taking game in Africa. All with Swift A Frames and Barnes Monos. When a bullet penetrates to the off shoulder on Cape Buffalo in a perfect Mushroom then you have your answer.Are their bullets that “Perform better” I’m sure there are. Having confidence in your kit is a great feeling. I like and trust mind. Good enough!
 

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(cont'd)
Rockies museum,
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Good Morning,
I plan to visit MT next Sept.
May I ask you to give me your comments; do I forget something ? are my choices worthy ? Thank you in advance
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Hi Jay,

Hope you're well.

I'm headed your way in January.

Attending SHOT Show has been a long time bucket list item for me.

Finally made it happen and I'm headed to Vegas.

I know you're some distance from Vegas - but would be keen to catch up if it works out.

Have a good one.

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