Another 458 Win Mag thread

[hoytcanon]

"Sorry, I only got a couple sentences into that and then tuned out... anyone have the readers digest version? Or is it still Lott = Loser, Win Mag = Champion of the World???"

Appealing to ignorance ?
Ignorance is bliss ?
Just the facts M'am.

10-4, Darling.

 

[Riflecrank]

I was editing while hoytcanon was whipping out his wit.
This is my more stylish response:

"Sorry, I only got a couple sentences into that and then tuned out... anyone have the readers digest version? Or is it still Lott = Loser, Win Mag = Champion of the World???" (hoytcanon quote)

hoytcanon,
Are you appealing to ignorance ?
Ignorance is bliss, eh ?

Here is your Readers' Digest version:

Just the facts M'am.

 

[Tiger2001]

Good morning all! I love this thread/discussion and always get so much out of those with a great deal more experience than I have. Fascinating facts about the .458WM. When I first went to Africa in 1989, double rifles were something confined to books and Hollywood movies. A Game Ranger or PH either carried a .375 H&H or a .458WM. The latter always seemed to be a Govt issued Winchester M70 in South Africa. The problem I heard about then and later experienced as an owner wasn't ammo reliability or lack of velocity/penetration. It was that the M70 "Safari Express" (yes a push feed) was simply too light! They had a short barrel (I think around 22") and weight a pound or 1 1/2 lbs less than the same Win M70 in .375 H&H! Which made the rifle/caliber extremely unpleasant to shoot with 510 grain bullets! Capstick also mentioned that such light rifles were noted to start cracking in the stocks after several hundred rounds. Not a concern for me as I was not encouraged to shoot so many rounds but a real concern to a Game Ranger in the field who depended on the rifle for their lives. Nearly 40 years later I am a lot wiser and a bit more experienced. I have a new Win M70 in .458WM but this time a model made by FN in Portugal. I have to say the fit, finish, feed (CRF vice push), and weight is head and shoulders above the two I had which were made in CT back in the day. Barrel length is closer to 25" and I've mounted an Aimpoint H34 Red Dot on it. Perfect for buff in Africa next year. I even still have a box of Federal Ammo I purchased in college in the early 90's, which was their 350 grain nickel plated cartridges. They still work like I purchased them yesterday. Now my question to anyone reading this, is it even possible to find a double rifle chambered in .458WM? That is something I would definitely snap up!

 

[Altitude sickness]

“is it even possible to find a double rifle chambered in .458WM? That is something I would definitely snap up!”


Yes sir. In fact I shot a freinds Heym DR in .458 WM not long.

It was amazingly accurate, easy to shoot well, and because it’s designed well did not recoil hard at all.

And because it’s a Heym and removed the brass without fail. I would have zero concern about the rim design.


I feel I have the perfect .458 It’s a .416 Taylor.

 

[michael458]

Faster twist theoretically may increase pressure and decrease velocity,
I have .458 rifles of both 1:10" and 1:14" and no discernible effects.

I had a similar concern in .500 caliber going from the original 1:18 twist rates to 1:12, all pressure tests, velocity tests and terminal tests showed zero change in pressure or velocity. The purpose in going to the faster twist rate is terminal stability with somewhat less than desirable designed solids in .458 caliber +......... and it does increase straight line penetration to a degree. However, twist rate in .458 caliber+ cannot overcome poor design. Twist rate increases in lesser calibers also does enhance even proper designed solids, for instance, .416 caliber has a hard time with 400 gr Proper designed solids at 1:14 twist rate, about 90% straight line penetration, 1:12 will increase that to 100%.

I think 1:10 is fantastic for 458 caliber....... unfortunately most of mine are 1:14....... but, it has not caused any issues with proper designs.......

My 7th .458 WinMag will have a 20" barrel to prove the load can be hotted up to 2500 fps in that barrel length: .458 WM+

Hmmmmm..... pretty good idea if you ask me..................

 

[Altitude sickness]

Man a model 70 in .458B&M with a 18” barrel

Sign me up!!

 

[AZDAVE]

@Altitude sickness The B&M is also great with a 20 in barrel!!!

 

[Altitude sickness]

But Dave, then I wouldn’t have an excuse to buy one.


Because I have a model 70 .416 Taylor with 21” barrel. Which of course is a .458 with a .416 bullet

 

[AZDAVE]

Get the 458 B&M with a 19 in barrel just to be different

 

[michael458]

Man a model 70 in .458B&M with a 18” barrel

Sign me up!!

@Altitude sickness The B&M is also great with a 20 in barrel!!!

Get the 458 B&M with a 19 in barrel just to be different

I have 18 inch, 19 inch and 20 inch, I love them all...... But can't take away from the Mighty 458 Winchester Thread... or I would show you some photos......... 450 #13 Solid at 2262 fps in the 18 inch gun...... burns through hippo, elephant and buffalo like they were butter..........and this is what I am also getting in my 20 inch 458 Winchester, todays modern bullets and modern powder/primer and yes even brass makes a difference, has really enhanced cartridges/rifles incredibly. Todays 458 Winchester ain't the 1960 model........in fact, history is important, but it has zero to do with what we have now, other than what it WAS......... What is was, it ain't no mo!

Whew, taking a break, loading some 50 B&M, 425 solids at 2350 fps. they are 18 inch guns too..... parent cartridge of the 458 B&M............

 

[Altitude sickness]

I have a .458 with a 20” barrel and love it. But it’s a Springfield action. The barrel is thick the stock heavy. So it shoots well with low felt recoil. But with the large action it’s a large rifle. And weighs 10.4 pounds.

I like the idea of the small B&M package

 

[AZDAVE]

@michael458 You are a bad influence, I keep looking at the 50B&M

 

[michael458]

I like the idea of the small B&M package

My Bastogne stock gun weighs 7.5 lbs no scope.... talk about handy, easy to carry, and damn fast on target as well........ I have one set up in a snow Ultimate stock, stainless 18 inch gun, 6.5 lbs... that is my Alaska gun. Then I have a dandy English stock 19 inch gun, fine looking, but damn that stock is heavy, thing weighs over 8.5 lbs....... Have a 20 inch gun that is the second gun built, I refinished it a couple of years ago, and fell back in love with it, A friend of mine took it to Zimbabwe in 2021 and shot a couple of buffalo with it, 420 Raptors backed with 450 Solids...... hammered..... Then I have another 20 inch gun that is the pressure test gun on the range, the first gun built the barrel was HEAVY, we were learning.... still have it too, but never shoot it..... I had a 1885 done in 458 B&M, it has a 24 inch barrel, but same Overall as a 20 inch bolt gun, its neat...

RifleCranky has a 16 inch 458 B&M... very interesting..........

But remember, this is not 458 B&M thread........ 458 WINCHESTER... and we like those too, a Lot....

@michael458 You are a bad influence, I keep looking at the 50B&M

Yep...... I hear that a lot............... HEH

Ooppps, I didn't mean to do this...

 

[michael458]

Who here has ever shot zebras? OMG, I have slayed a bunch of zebras over the years, there is no telling how many, guess well more than 50 or more. Well, the point of this is that if you ever shot a zebra, you know just how damn tough they are. I have shot a bunch with 338 and 358 caliber guns, and they can run and give you a go. I have shot a few with 416s and they still run. Zebras can take a lot of punishment and keep on going, part buffalo I think..........

The first zebra I shot with the Lion Gun, 458 Winchester, 400 Swift A Frame at 2325 fps. This zebra was at 170 yards and I popped him dead on the shoulder, and he dropped on the spot and barely twitched, DRT..... I had never seen a zebra do that, and the 458 Winchester impressed the hell out of me that day. It repeated that performance on several other animals in the next few days too, sable, kudu, wildebeest and others, DRT, no running, no chasing, DRT on the spot........

My hair was still mostly dark ....... HEH HEH..........

458 kept impressing me with many a zebra over the years, this one dropped to the shot too, in fact, every zebra I ever shot with 458 caliber was DRT, no run, no chase, sometimes don't even twitch... this one was with a 250 Socom Raptor in that 18 inch 458 B&M Raptor was doing 2900 fps, it also does great in 458 Winchester...... DRT on the spot........

458s make incredible Plains Game rifles............... you don't have to chase anything or hunt for them.

 

[mms45]

What do you consider the best factory ammo for the 458? Hornaday since it gets to 2150fps or federal still at 2090fps but with swift a frames

 

[michael458]

What do you consider the best factory ammo for the 458? Hornaday since it gets to 2150fps or federal still at 2090fps but with swift a frames

I'm sorry, assuming that is directed to me, but others will have to answer that, I have never in my life used any factory ammo? I have a box or two of very old stuff, probably from the 70s or something that was in with this deal or that over the years, and I think I did fire 3 of them once to in a test session years ago. But other than that I have never even fired a factory load......... and I have never even paid attention to what is out there or available. I am sure some of these other guys can help.

 

[mms45]

Just open to anyone’s opinion Hornaday bullet going faster or swift a frame going a little slower

 

[Altitude sickness]

Michael, tell us more about this beauty

Zebra are tough, tough on the hoof and tender on the plate. I just made that up you can use it

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

458 Lott at 160 yards at @Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS October 2021
420 grain Cutting Edge Safari Raptor
Zebra was dead within 20 years of bullet impact site.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

458 Win 470 grain Cutting Edge Raptor
Heym 88B with Trijicon SRO 1 MOA Reflex Sight
Kalahari Lioness 2022 with @Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS PH Rudi Nell

Dead Right There!