458 Win Mag vs 458 Lott

[Alexandro Faria]

If I may throw a spanner in the works: Have a look at the .458 Sabi. If you've go the time and money and if your happy with the fact that you won't be able to fin the rounds from anyone but Sabi, then it's definitely a worth while option.

 

[lwaters]

My Hornady reloading manual shows a gain on 50fps for the 458 lott over the 458 win. mag. I don't know what others show but this does not look like enough to justify the extra powder the lott requires.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I think there are two equivalent calibers.
Witold

 

[matt85]

My Hornady reloading manual shows a gain on 50fps for the 458 lott over the 458 win. mag. I don't know what others show but this does not look like enough to justify the extra powder the lott requires.

the Hornady manual is written by lawyers. the Lott is fully capable of pushing a 500gr bullet at over 2300+ fps, this gives it about 200+ fps over the 458 WM. there is also the benefit of being able to use 500gr mono-metal bullets and 550gr North Fork bullets.

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

The middle option is to have a gunsmith throat the 458 and .250 longer and seat the bullet a 1/4 inch farther out (Provide your magazine box can accommodate a little more length.) Did a ruger #1 that way and very easy with modern powders to get 2150-2200 with a 500gr.

AZDAVE,

That is a great idea since one could then continue using factory ammunition as usual, when far from the nearest loading bench.

I like it.

As it turns out, I am very blessed to own both calibers discussed here but, for my wimpy shoulder's sake, I only load my Lott version down around that old time velocity anyway.

If I could stand the recoil from 500 grainers @ 2300 fps loads, for the many shots required in proper training towards a DG hunt, I surely would load my Lott to that level (provided it showed no high pressure signs and provided it was accurate in my rifle, of course.)

I sheepishly admit that recoil is more to my liking down around the old .450 NE flanged load rather than up to the factory Lott specifications.

However, it seems to me that if I cannot sack any animal living on earth today, with a well placed .45 caliber, 480 - 500 grain, blunt shaped and stoutly constructed bullet, leaving the muzzle at a little over 2,000 feet per second, then I probably should just stay home and hide under the bed.

Best regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[matt85]

Velodog, there is no need to run a 458 Lott at full tilt. albeit i think id run it a bit faster then 2000 fps, id run the cartridge at around 2100-2150 fps.

havin the throat bored deeper isnt a bad idea, but you might as well go a little further and make it a Lott if youve done that much. the 458 Lott will shoot 458 WM cartridges if needed.

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

Velodog, there is no need to run a 458 Lott at full tilt. albeit i think id run it a bit faster then 2000 fps, id run the cartridge at around 2100-2150 fps.

havin the throat bored deeper isnt a bad idea, but you might as well go a little further and make it a Lott if youve done that much. the 458 Lott will shoot 458 WM cartridges if needed.

-matt

Hi Matt,

Totally agree, that's why I wrote; "a bit over" 2000 fps.

This is not to mention the several other rants I've submitted on the .458 Lott, throughout AH, specifically referring to hand loading my .458 Lott to duplicate the original .450 NE's ballistics, to help me deal with the recoil during repeated firings of this cartridge.

Regarding the very slight throating-out of the Winchester version, I presumed AZDAVE was referring to shorter actions/shorter magazine box types, such as surplus Model 98 Mausers, built in .458 Winchester.

I had consulted a Gunsmith about having a for sale / affordable but very decent custom Model 98 in .458 Winchester, converted to .458 Lott, 8 or 10 years ago and concluded that I'd save a pile of money by just having a Lott built on the CZ 550 Magnum action, and so I did.

Evidently, the M98 receiver ring needed to be milled out to fit live .458 Lott cartridges, plus the action screws were too close together to accept a Lott length magazine.

The CZ 550 Magnum is a stoutly made and affordable option for the Lott and I'm very happy with the way mine turned out, especially since I have less than $2000. in it.

While we're on this, my opinion is that the .458 Lott is pretty much the only DG cartridge introduced during my lifetime that I'd refer to as "excellent".

Peaceout,
Velo Dog.

 

[Bernard de Lange]

Hi Guys.

Thanks I eventually opted for a .458 Lott CZ 550 Safari Magnum. I love that gun now. Only thing I changed was, I added a mercury tube, polished the action & replaced the front site with a luminous orange pin.
Im also shooting reloaded Peregrine 500gr solid's at 2298 fps. Im more than happy with that.

I have more than enough penetration on an Elephant. That 500gr hits like a freight train at almost 2300fps.
Buffalo from any angle also seems to have no problem with penetration. I am a really happy camper.
The CZ reliability has proven itself on 2 occasions. Wonderfull calibre.

 

[CTDolan]

"While we're on this, my opinion is that the .458 Lott is pretty much the only DG cartridge introduced during my lifetime that I'd refer to as "excellent"." - Velo Dog

I could not possibly agree more. True, true, true!

 

[Kanzutu]

For back-up work LOTT ALL THE WAY. Not that a WM is bad but the Lott is better!

 

[CAustin]

Well I just bought and took delivery of a Ruger #1 in 458 Lott. It is my understanding that you can use the 458 Win Mag in this chamber without any issue. It will be my backup gun for the elephant safari this fall. My question is why would anyone want to use the magnum load when you have the Lott available. Maybe to save a little punch in the shoulder for practice but otherwise I dont think I would use on the actual hunt.

 

[gordon-kruger]

Do we speaking client rifle or ph rifle ?
For client a 458 w.m will be optimal on a "one rifle Safari", with modern powder and a 400 gr Trophyboded (2300 fps) it will nearly be identical to any of the .416 Calibers on the market, and do a good work

 

[matt85]

Do we speaking client rifle or ph rifle ?
For client a 458 w.m will be optimal on a "one rifle Safari", with modern powder and a 400 gr Trophyboded (2300 fps) it will nearly be identical to any of the .416 Calibers on the market, and do a good work

sorry, but a 458 loaded with a 400gr bullet is by far inferior to any of the 416 cartridges! the .416" 400gr bullet will have much better SD and will out penetrate that .458" 400gr bullet every time.

if your a hand loader then there no reason to buy a 458 WM. the 458 Lott is superior in every way when it comes to hand loading. you could do a 500gr bullet at 2150 or your could do a 400gr bullet at 2300. there isnt any reason to restrict yourself with a smaller cartridge. however another option would be the new 450 Rigby... ive heard good things so far.

Well I just bought and took delivery of a Ruger #1 in 458 Lott. It is my understanding that you can use the 458 Win Mag in this chamber without any issue. It will be my backup gun for the elephant safari this fall. My question is why would anyone want to use the magnum load when you have the Lott available. Maybe to save a little punch in the shoulder for practice but otherwise I dont think I would use on the actual hunt.

you would only use 458 WM cartridges in a Lott in an emergency situation. otherwise you would simply load down the standard cartridge for practice.

-matt

 

[CTDolan]

"...sorry, but a 458 loaded with a 400gr bullet is by far inferior to any of the 416 cartridges! the .416" 400gr bullet will have much better SD and will out penetrate that .458" 400gr bullet every time."

It's not so simple. All else equeal, the 416 projectile will likely dive deeper, yes, but effectiveness has to do with more than penetration alone (the 416 will dive deeper than a 525 grain bullet from a 505, too, but nobody would argue as to which hits harder and is, therefore, in that sense, the more effective caliber).

One thing for those who do shoot the 458 Win Mag in their Lott chamber...it you shoot a lot of the Win Mag, clean the throat before switching back to the Lott. In some instances buildup has been known to cause pressure spikes (something commonly known about, among those who shoot in twin-caliber revolvers...38 Special/357 Mag, 45 Colt/454 Casull, 480 Ruger/475 Linebaugh, etc.).

 

[35bore]

There is no doubt in my mind that the 458 win mag can do what the 458 Lott can do. If you buy into to hullabaloo of the extra velocity being a better stopper, then go ahead and buy into it, the charging animal may fall a few inches/cm further from your feet (he won't give a sh:+.). Regardless what any prostaffer, or gun writer, or armchair hunter says, the 458 win mag has proven itself time and again. The stigma is getting old, sorry it's been old , since the problem (a loooonnnnnggggg time ago arose) They corrected it and now (from what I have read) may be the most commonly used bad boy stopper used in Africa. You live there, my guess is that a pretty high percentage of the PH's use the win mag. If you buy the 458WM and it doesn't kill the way you would like, it has been mentioned previously, just get it rechambered for the Lott.

 

[CTDolan]

Look at the Hornady reloading manual. The 458 Win Mag tops out at 2200 fps (one load, with several loads offering 2150 fps), the 458 Lott tops out at 2250 fps (one load, with a couple offering 2200 fps, and the remainder 2100-2150 fps). Both guns 24" barrels, each load using the 500 grain DGX/DGS. Not much difference.

As an aside, the 450 NE is loaded to 2150 fps, 480 grains flying down range (and we all know what it can do).

Fodder for thought...

 

[tarbe]

If you buy the 458WM and it doesn't kill the way you would like, it has been mentioned previously, just get it rechambered for the Lott.

Most 458 WM are bolt rifles....so this would not work for most guys. Single-shot or double should be doable. Standard length bolt action isn't long enough for properly loaded Lott ammo.

 

[35bore]

Most 458 WM are bolt rifles....so this would not work for most guys. Single-shot or double should be doable. Standard length bolt action isn't long enough for properly loaded Lott ammo.

Not quite understanding, (case length ) 458 Wm is 2.5 inches , 458 lott is 2.8 inches.... Rechambering is more than possible. Also "most guys" use bolts... right?

 

[tarbe]

Not quite understanding, (case length ) 458 Wm is 2.5 inches , 458 lott is 2.8 inches.... Rechambering is more than possible. Also "most guys" use bolts... right?

Lott requires a magnum length action (just like the 375). OAL is too long for the std length of the 458WM action. You'd have to seat the bullets so deep it would be like loading the 458 WM.

 

[CTDolan]

Unless the action already has the length needed (such as the Model 70, Remington 700, etc.).