404 jeffery vs 416 Rigby

[416Tanzan]

The shooter gets to rock and roll. It's comforting when walking after a buffalo. 6100ftlbs, 350gn at 2820 fps.

 

[bassasdaindia]

Ammo in Africa? Jeffery or Rigby??

both available however the Rigby is more available

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I agree with Paw Print and Doc-404. I love 404Jeffery.
Witold

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I think that 404Jeffery is the best caliber for dangerus game.
Witold

 

[Hank2211]

Hard not to get repetitive, but both will do what you need, in a very similar fashion. The Rigby is a bit smaller diameter bullet, but packs a bit more punch (but not so much more that it will make a difference to any animal you are shooting at), and more recoil to go along with it. Both are great historic calibres, with the .404 probably seeing lots more action in Africa since it was far more available and the ammo was (and is) cheaper.

 

[416Tanzan]

As mentioned, the 416 Rigby allows handloading up to 6100+ ftlbs.

 

[bebo]

Always .416RM efficient and cheaper than Rigby!

 

[spike.t]

Always .416RM efficient and cheaper than Rigby!

now bebo we arent talking about that young remington upstart thing ........this is about two classic cartridges steeped in history , and still as good now as they were then over 100 years later........

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

As mentioned, the 416 Rigby allows handloading up to 6100+ ftlbs.

Very true and which means it outperforms the .458LOTT.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I have never shot the .404Jeff, and but own a .416Rigby. Makes my heart flutter with excitement.

 

[PaulT]

Very true and which means it outperforms the .458LOTT.

The "numbers" don't always tell the entire story, Marius.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

The "numbers" don't always tell the entire story, Marius.

Explain.

 

[Hank2211]

Always .416RM efficient and cheaper than Rigby!

Cheaper for sure; more efficient likely (but not that any animal will notice). But there's more to hunting in Africa than cheap and efficient! History and romance count. At least for an old guy like me.

 

[PaulT]

Very true and which means it outperforms the .458LOTT.

Marius, firstly let me say that ALL of the cartridges mentioned, when combined with good quality bullets and proper shot placement, will no doubt get the job done.

That is not in dispute, no doubt.

Tanz throws a quite legitimate spanner in the works with his 350gn load at 2800fps that is both quite do-able and EXTREMELY potent, no doubt.

The Lott can be loaded (I have several different loads) to 2400fps with a good quality mono-metal 450g producing close to 5800fp/lbs.

I stand by my statement made previously.

Given the two to choose from, with specific reference for use on buffalo, and in deference to the paper figures I would ALWAYS choose the Lott over the smaller caliber.

In the years I used a .458 Lott as my primary back-up rifle I had the good (not) fortune of facing over half a dozen, or more, determined charges from both wounded buffalo and wild Oxen whist in the company of clients armed with 416's.
The visual effect difference visible between the impact on these animals between my Lott and my clients' .416's was, to me, convincing enough to have me think this way.

Of course your mileage may vary.
Our opinions as hunters are formed by the results of our experiences.
Your experiences may have varied to mine, but I, personally, will always defer to the larger round, the .458 Lott.

Despite the fact I finished my career with two .500's I am a BIG fan of the Lott and i firmly believe there is nothing you can load in a .416 that will outperform it, but then that is only one man's opinion.

Cheers,
Paul.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Marius, firstly let me say that ALL of the cartridges mentioned, when combined with good quality bullets and proper shot placement, will no doubt get the job done.

That is not in dispute, no doubt.

Tanz throws a quite legitimate spanner in the works with his 350gn load at 2800fps that is both quite do-able and EXTREMELY potent, no doubt.

The Lott can be loaded (I have several different loads) to 2400fps with a good quality mono-metal 450g producing close to 5800fp/lbs.

I stand by my statement made previously.

Given the two to choose from, with specific reference for use on buffalo, and in deference to the paper figures I would ALWAYS choose the Lott over the smaller caliber.

In the years I used a .458 Lott as my primary back-up rifle I had the good (not) fortune of facing over half a dozen, or more, determined charges from both wounded buffalo and wild Oxen whist in the company of clients armed with 416's.
The visual effect difference visible between the impact on these animals between my Lott and my clients' .416's was, to me, convincing enough to have me think this way.

Of course your mileage may vary.
Our opinions as hunters are formed by the results of our experiences.
Your experiences may have varied to mine, but I, personally, will always defer to the larger round, the .458 Lott.

Despite the fact I finished my career with two .500's I am a BIG fan of the Lott and i firmly believe there is nothing you can load in a .416 that will outperform it, but then that is only one man's opinion.

Cheers,
Paul.

Thanks Paul. I agree that they can't be compared on standard loads, but we are not talking about standard loads here. The comparison here is what each cartridge can achieve and handle. If we load them to their full capabilities, and I don't say you should, then it paints a different story. I recently saw that Dzombo is busy designing a 600gr bullet for the .450Rigby. What stops them from developing a 500gr for the .416Rigby? What will the paper values say then? The Rigby certainly has the case capacity to deal with the 500gr, quite comfortably. ( Literally the .450Rigby)
I'm currently in the market for a .470 or .500NE , so that should tell you that I agree that bigger is better.
But by you looking down at the .416Rigby, you stabbing me in the heart man. Even my new pup is called Rigby...
Thanks for your comments Paul!

 

[PaulT]

Firstly, my apologies to the opening poster for swaying this thread off topic, my last post, I promise.

Marius, of course your response is entirely legitimate and sensible, no arguments on any of it from me.
As another poster, Witold, has previously stated in another thread, cartridges/calibers are a personal/emotional, and subjective, choice (within reason of course) for most hunters, me included.

It just so happens that with a Lott in hand I have managed to extract myself, and quite a number of former clients, from an immeasurable depth of excrement when hunting buffalo. A number of these situations have been involving clients carrying .416's and not all of them created by poor shooting, so those experiences have soured me personally on the 416's but that is NOT that I am saying it is a poor caliber or cartridge choice, only that it just doesn't "fit" with me, that's all.

I certainly did NOT intend to "stab you in your caliber-heart", man, my apologies, please try understand how some of us generate our "impressions" of various calibers.

If, by this stage, I have maintained ANY caliber credibility with you what-so-ever then PLEASE accept my STRONGEST endorsement of the .500 NE over the .470 NE, particularly so if you are intending to use it for back-up, and NO I do not wish to spend the next four pages of this thread defending myself again all of the .470 officianodos !!

That's it, no more from me, I promise and again my apologies for crapping all over your beloved 416 Marius

 

[Hank2211]

I'm currently in the market for a .470 or .500NE , so that should tell you that I agree that bigger is better.
But by you looking down at the .416Rigby, you stabbing me in the heart man. Even my new pup is called Rigby...
Thanks for your comments Paul!

Marius, as a professional hunter, you can certainly say that bigger is better. If you need to stop a charge, you need to be sure that your rifle has that one shot stopping ability.

On the other hand, I'm just a (non-professional) hunter. And I think that too many of us think that bigger is better and end up with a rifle we can't really handle all that well. I know there are people who can handle a .505 Gibbs (have you seen the size of Kevin Robertson?), but most of us can't, at least not without a flinch, and I'd say the same for the .458 Lott. A great calibre, no doubt, but personally I don't find it any fun to shoot. The .416 Rigby is about the extent of the recoil I'm prepared to handle, and since it can address, smartly I might add, any animal including elephant which might come my way, I see no reason to stray beyond it.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Hank,
Thank you for your comments. To tell you the truth, I will shoot my .416Rigby 10 times before shooting my .375H&H. The Rigby recoils less than the H&H, or let me say a lot slower.
I've watched Kevin Robertson shoot that .505Gibbs in real life. He makes it look like its a medium bore.

 

[matt85]

im currently shooting a 416 RM because the Winchester M70 is a nicer gun then the CZ 550 and costs the same. the 416 Rigby is a better cartridge then the 416 RM mostly because of case capacity. the 416 RM has trouble with mono-metal bullets like Barnes or CEB. having said that, I LOVE my M70 in 416 RM!

back on topic, one of these days I need to try a 404 Jeffery!

-matt

 

[sierraone]

im currently shooting a 416 RM because the Winchester M70 is a nicer gun then the CZ 550 and costs the same. the 416 Rigby is a better cartridge then the 416 RM mostly because of case capacity. the 416 RM has trouble with mono-metal bullets like Barnes or CEB. having said that, I LOVE my M70 in 416 RM!

back on topic, one of these days I need to try a 404 Jeffery!

-matt

I know what you mean. I have four M 70s, in .264 win mag, 3006, .375 H&H and .458 Win mag and love them all, and could see myself buying another someday, but am looking other directions currently. I am "kinda" looking for a Jeffery, but the real ones cost as much as a simple cheap house in north Florida, about like a real Rigby. And I am not currently interested in an CZ's, so we will see what happens!