404 jeffery vs 416 Rigby

[gxsr-sarge]

Shot my 404J for the first time!

I finally got a chance to shoot my newly acquired CZ550 in 404J this morning. After my first shot, I just smiled and immediately knew how special this cartridge was. It definitely says "how are ya!" but it's not punishing at all.

I shot a handful of factory Hornady's off of shooting sticks and then another handful offhand. I wanted to get a feeling for how it shot. I shipped it thereafter to Triple River for some warranty work (cross bolt upgrades). I acquired the rifle for a buff/tuskless/croc hunt I booked for next year. I'll put a Swaro 1.7-10 on it with detachable rings so I can use it with open sights for the ele and buffalo and then w/ scope for the croc (if I can develop a load that could do about 1MOA and about 2300 FPS).

404 ALL THE WAY!!

 

[Hank2211]

Glad to hear you like it! I got a .404 a couple of months ago. Took it out to the range and while it's hard to compare to the .416, since I didn't try them side-by-side, I can almost swear that the recoil was much more manageable than the .416 (more that you would expect from the numbers). And there's something about shooting such a grand old cartridge! I have the identical scope on mine - illuminated reticle to make it easier to see against the black background of a buffalo! I used EAW detachable rings for this one - first time I've used these (always Talley to date) and I have to say they seem like a better - certainly faster - system.

Overall I think this is a great rifle - first hunt coming up in July!

 

[gxsr-sarge]

Hank

That's very exciting news!!! What's on your list, Buffalo and....

Excellent optics selection! I put that same scope on (w. the illuminated reticle) on a 375 HH I took to Zim last year for my Leopard/Buff/Hippo hunt. I couldn't have made the shot on the Leopard w/o the illuminated reticle as there were only minutes left of shootable light in the late PM.

My 404's Swaro, while the same range as yours (1.7-10) doesn't have the illuminated reticle. I figured that I'd be shooting during the day AND I saved a few bucks for reloading components for practice.

 

[sestoppelman]

I finally got a chance to shoot my newly acquired CZ550 in 404J this morning. After my first shot, I just smiled and immediately knew how special this cartridge was. It definitely says "how are ya!" but it's not punishing at all.

I shot a handful of factory Hornady's off of shooting sticks and then another handful offhand. I wanted to get a feeling for how it shot. I shipped it thereafter to Triple River for some warranty work (cross bolt upgrades). I acquired the rifle for a buff/tuskless/croc hunt I booked for next year. I'll put a Swaro 1.7-10 on it with detachable rings so I can use it with open sights for the ele and buffalo and then w/ scope for the croc (if I can develop a load that could do about 1MOA and about 2300 FPS).

404 ALL THE WAY!!

Congrats on your rifle, I have the same one, and love it too. I have a Nikon Monarch African 1-4X on mine in Warned mounts. You will have no trouble getting 2300fps with it and it sounds like its a good thing you booked tuskless if you are going to Zim, per the other thread about banning imported ivory this year.

 

[Hank2211]

Hank

That's very exciting news!!! What's on your list, Buffalo and....

Excellent optics selection! I put that same scope on (w. the illuminated reticle) on a 375 HH I took to Zim last year for my Leopard/Buff/Hippo hunt. I couldn't have made the shot on the Leopard w/o the illuminated reticle as there were only minutes left of shootable light in the late PM.

My 404's Swaro, while the same range as yours (1.7-10) doesn't have the illuminated reticle. I figured that I'd be shooting during the day AND I saved a few bucks for reloading components for practice.

Gsxr-sarge - This is supposed to be a "relaxed" hunt after hell in Cameroon last year. I'm starting in the Eastern Cape where the main goals are as many of the small cats as I can find (caracal with hounds for sure, and as long as we have the hounds, a pig or two!), Vaal Rhebok, cape bushbuck, and then off to the Northern Cape for some fun with giraffe, buffalo (both of which will take the .404) and some general plains game hunting. The best part is that I'll be with people I know - PH I've hunted with twice before, my outfitter from Zim, etc. Always great fun.

I understand what you're saying about the illuminated reticle, but I've found it helpful during daylight as well - I think it allows me to get on target a bit faster.

How do you plan to break yours in?

 

[gxsr-sarge]

Gsxr-sarge - This is supposed to be a "relaxed" hunt after hell in Cameroon last year. I'm starting in the Eastern Cape where the main goals are as many of the small cats as I can find (caracal with hounds for sure, and as long as we have the hounds, a pig or two!), Vaal Rhebok, cape bushbuck, and then off to the Northern Cape for some fun with giraffe, buffalo (both of which will take the .404) and some general plains game hunting. The best part is that I'll be with people I know - PH I've hunted with twice before, my outfitter from Zim, etc. Always great fun.

I understand what you're saying about the illuminated reticle, but I've found it helpful during daylight as well - I think it allows me to get on target a bit faster.

How do you plan to break yours in?

I also have a giraffe on my list as well. The only issue is that I'll be primarily hunting in the northern Chiware area of Zimbabwe and there are no naturally occurring giraffe in that area. I'd have to fly to southern Zimbabwe or elsewhere to find one. My primary trophies are cape, tuskless, croc plus hyena which kept outsmarting us last year - they are more wiley than cats! Plus whatever other opportunistic plains game we see. So the giraffe would be a "go" if I knock off the other animals early in the hunt.

NO DOUBT that the illuminated reticle will help get you on target fast. I failed to mention that I had mine "on" for the buffalo shot. I went around this time last year and the foliage was very very thick so it was a bit harder to see. The buffalo I shot was in very thick brush and no doubt that the illuminated reticle helped me make that perfect first shot. I'd use my scope on the 404 for opportunistic plains game (and maybe giraffe) plus the croc all of which I don't think would be very difficult to take with a normal reticle. I plan to use open sights for the elephant and buffalo. Now that I have my first buffalo, I feel like I can challenge myself a bit more for the next one. While I plan to take both my 375 and 404, I'm going to try to use the 404 for everything.

Once I get my rifle back and sight in the scope, I don't have many other options during this time of year other than to help control our feral pig population here in Florida. It's a great way to practice, it's cheap and yummy! Then I'll take it with me deer hunting in Georgia this fall. It maaaaaaayyyy be a bit overkill for the measly 100-150 lb deer but what the heck. Last year, I used the .375 for deer. Needless to say - it was enough gun!

 

[DOC-404]

404 ALL THE WAY!!

..methinks you owe me a beer..! :beer:

 

[gxsr-sarge]

Gladly!

 

[bebo]

416RM : 400g and 300g Winch Safari Express scoped with Leupold Var 3 1.5- 5 x20
Insured shots 150 m 400g or 200m 300g , sure !

 

[Velo Dog]

.404 Jeffery vs .416 Rigby

Gentlemens,

Old Velo's dos centavos:

The Rigby at it's original ballistics has proven to have plenty of recoil for me (I'ma sissy...............darnit).

The magazine Writer who suggested 2700 fps loads or whatever the details were must be a real brute.

It's 410 gr bullet Pre-War load was evidently very good for heavy game and I like it the way it is.

Same goes for the .404.

It's original load was nearly the same weight bullet (400 gr Jfry vs 410 gr Rgby) but slower @ around 2125 fps.

I see no need - for my intended purposes - to load either one beyond their original specs.

The .404 evidently worked well on heavy game, including grumpy elephants, with 400 gr solids.

Today's tougher bullets make both even more effective.

My .416 is a CZ 550 Magnum that I bought a few years back for $800. new in the box at a Cabela's store in MN during an "Over-Stocked Sale".

Then I had the barrel cut to 23", a front sight machined to somewhat resemble an old original Rigby, a larger bolt handle welded on, stock further reinforced internally, Model-70 safety installed, plus a few other, mostly cosmetic modifications done to it.

I have not scoped it yet and not sure if I ever will.

It is one of my favorite rifles to own but so far, I have not shot any critter with it.

The reason I did not get a .404 is because they cost well over $3,000. from the same maker - CZ.

However, I have steadily picked up components for one (dies/shell holder/100 rds brass/300 projectiles) for the day when I trip over a used one, (does not necessarily have to be a CZ, it can be custom P17 Enfield or whatever, within reason).

There was a Pre-War .404 "Plains Game Load" originally with 300 gr expanding bullet @ an advertised 2600 fps (many .404s then had 26" or longer barrels) but it didn't last, reportedly because too many hunters-but-not-rifle-enthusiasts used them against heavy game, with poor results.

I am not aware that Rigby ever offered a PG load for the .416.

At any rate, I have had a secret desire to take a .404 to Limpopo / Lowveld, with 300 gr bullets (probably Hawk brand) and hunt such as nyala, waterbuck, low-bush rhino (AKA warthog) and whatever zigs when it should have zagged. (of course within my feeble working man's budget).

In closing (finally!) I highly recommend just getting both calibers, I'm going to (somebody stop me!).

Out,
Velo Dog.

 

[bassasdaindia]

Gentlemens,

Old Velo's dos centavos:

The Rigby at it's original ballistics has proven to have plenty of recoil for me (I'ma sissy...............darnit).

The magazine Writer who suggested 2700 fps loads or whatever the details were must be a real brute.

It's 410 gr bullet Pre-War load was evidently very good for heavy game and I like it the way it is.

Same goes for the .404.

It's original load was nearly the same weight bullet (400 gr Jfry vs 410 gr Rgby) but slower @ around 2125 fps.

I see no need - for my intended purposes - to load either one beyond their original specs.

The .404 evidently worked well on heavy game, including grumpy elephants, with 400 gr solids.

Today's tougher bullets make both even more effective.

My .416 is a CZ 550 Magnum that I bought a few years back for $800. new in the box at a Cabela's store in MN during an "Over-Stocked Sale".

Then I had the barrel cut to 23", a front sight machined to somewhat resemble an old original Rigby, a larger bolt handle welded on, stock further reinforced internally, Model-70 safety installed, plus a few other, mostly cosmetic modifications done to it.

I have not scoped it yet and not sure if I ever will.

It is one of my favorite rifles to own but so far, I have not shot any critter with it.

The reason I did not get a .404 is because they cost well over $3,000. from the same maker - CZ.

However, I have steadily picked up components for one (dies/shell holder/100 rds brass/300 projectiles) for the day when I trip over a used one, (does not necessarily have to be a CZ, it can be custom P17 Enfield or whatever, within reason).

There was a Pre-War .404 "Plains Game Load" originally with 300 gr expanding bullet @ an advertised 2600 fps (many .404s then had 26" or longer barrels) but it didn't last, reportedly because too many hunters-but-not-rifle-enthusiasts used them against heavy game, with poor results.

I am not aware that Rigby ever offered a PG load for the .416.

At any rate, I have had a secret desire to take a .404 to Limpopo / Lowveld, with 300 gr bullets (probably Hawk brand) and hunt such as nyala, waterbuck, low-bush rhino (AKA warthog) and whatever zigs when it should have zagged. (of course within my feeble working man's budget).

In closing (finally!) I highly recommend just getting both calibers, I'm going to (somebody stop me!).

Out,
Velo Dog.

nice post,I am in the same position as you,however I have begun with my 404 CZ 550 build.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello bassasdaindia,

Thanks for that, great minds think alike.

I will live vicariously through your experiences with your .404 until I get one myself.

The .416 meanwhile, shall have to do as my .40 repeater for now (oh poor me).

I confess that I often plink with it here in Alaska (pop cans, tree stumps, small rocks on cut banks, the occasional squirrel, etc.) with a hand-load: 400 gr Hornady RNSP @ around 2100 fps/classic .404 speed.

I do shoot my .416, as designed, at just over 2300 fps from time to time though, so I don't get too soft.

If / when I take my .416 to Africa, even if just for larger PG (eland/waterbuck, etc), I plan to use it at just a bit over 2300 fps, as it was designed by Rigby in the first place, and I intend to train heavily with it for one year prior, shooting no other rifle during that year.

That is my way with whatever rifle I take on safari (except the time I went over to work for a month, and I used a loaned rifle).

Likewise, if I ever take the .416 there, for large PG, I will use Woodleigh 410 gr RNSP / just over 2300 fps because of nostalgia (but I'd rather take a .404 with 300 gr RNSP or semi-spitzer @ around 2600 fps, as per the original Jeffery PG load0.

Stay on that front sight,
Velo Dog.

 

[bassasdaindia]

Hello bassasdaindia,

Thanks for that, great minds think alike.

I will live vicariously through your experiences with your .404 until I get one myself.

The .416 meanwhile, shall have to do as my .40 repeater for now (oh poor me).

I confess that I often plink with it here in Alaska (pop cans, tree stumps, small rocks on cut banks, the occasional squirrel, etc.) with a hand-load: 400 gr Hornady RNSP @ around 2100 fps/classic .404 speed.

I do shoot my .416, as designed, at just over 2300 fps from time to time though, so I don't get too soft.

If / when I take my .416 to Africa, even if just for larger PG (eland/waterbuck, etc), I plan to use it at just a bit over 2300 fps, as it was designed by Rigby in the first place, and I intend to train heavily with it for one year prior, shooting no other rifle during that year.

That is my way with whatever rifle I take on safari (except the time I went over to work for a month, and I used a loaned rifle).

Likewise, if I ever take the .416 there, for large PG, I will use Woodleigh 410 gr RNSP / just over 2300 fps because of nostalgia (but I'd rather take a .404 with 300 gr RNSP or semi-spitzer @ around 2600 fps, as per the original Jeffery PG load0.

Stay on that front sight,
Velo Dog.

hi Velo Dog

I do live in South Africa and we hunt throughout the winter (hunting season) hunting most PG

hope to see you in SA with your 40 calibers one day.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi again bassasdaindia,

If I ever return to South Africa, I will send you a note well in advance.

Hunting with Hannes Swanepoel Safaris, in Limpopo District has been fantastic and, he offers all of the Dangerous 7 (border of The Kruger Park / nothing is a "canned hunt" with his outfit) but, I cannot afford his elephant hunts.

Either elephant or hippo on land or both is what I want to book for next.

On my income, I need to go for a management bull or tuskless permit.

Therefore, it's likely I will be in Zimbabwe or perhaps the Caprivi strip/Namibia for my next safari.

Again, if/when I do return to your country (which I love) I will give you fair warning in advance.

Hopefully by then, I will have a .404 and have practiced well with the 300 grain PG load that, I would enjoy hunting larger antelopes in The Lowveld with.

My best regards,
velo Dog.

 

[LRich]

I have used both. Both are very capable of doing what they are made for - hunting dangerous game.
Both are also, in the right hands, very capable charge stoppers. I prefer the 404 Jeffery, that's why I have one, as did my father and grandfather, both PH's, before me. Four gentlemen who hunted with me, and handled my rifle, now own 404's. It's a matter of preference, is all. Then there is, of course, the history..

Could you please tell me what bullet(s)/bullet weight(s) you use?

 

[DOC-404]

Could you please tell me what bullet(s)/bullet weight(s) you use?

No problem, mate, I use either of these..

https://www.hornady.com/store/404-Jeffery-400-gr-DGX/

.404 Jeffery - Norma

 

[gxsr-sarge]

Could you please tell me what bullet(s)/bullet weight(s) you use?

The "standard" and classic bullet weight is 400 grains (for soft and solid bullets). I've seen 350 and 450(?) but I don't think that any manufacturer loads them so you'd have to make your own. I'm loading 400 grain Barnes TSX for my 404 for my next trip.

 

[pmwojtek]

Ammo in Africa? Jeffery or Rigby??

 

[ZG47]

Both were meant to deliver their payload at lower pressures, the reason for the oversized cases. If both are loaded in equal guns at max pressure, the Rigby wins.

But does the shooter?

 

[peras]

Ammo in Africa? Jeffery or Rigby??

In my experience equally available.