375 Ruger vs 375 H&H

[Daisy]

My wife bought the truck for me as a gift .
I care enough about her feelings to not gripe about this thing’s lousy gas mileage.

Now that’s a good reason!

My Tahoe was my wife’s. I sold my truck and took her Tahoe to get her new car. Ha

 

[Velo Dog]

Now that’s a good reason!

My Tahoe was my wife’s. I sold my truck and took her Tahoe to get her new car. Ha

Good call.
Great minds think alike my friend.

 

[USN]

This is all quite simple my friends…375 h&h .. because that is what is in the safe. We now go back to regular scheduled programming. ;-)

 

[Velo Dog]

an interesting thread,

i actually paused for a bit to decide whether or not to jump in this pool. so, here goes:

-the 375 h&h is a proven cartridge, it is effective over a broad range of distance and big game
-the h&h also has a LOT more factory loads available
-a worn in h&h is smooth as glass
-the h&h is generally a heavier rifle (action length and barrel contour being factors)

-the 375 ruger by now is also a proven cartridge and although in theory shoots a touch faster, no animal shot with either will be able to tell the difference, so it is also a great cartridge.
-the ruger has much less available factory loads. the ones available are pretty good, but the h&h has way more factory loads available
-a worn in ruger is also as smooth as glass
-the ruger, is a bit lighter, in the short barrel pretty handy and as far a recoil goes, i doubt that anyone would notice the difference between the ruger and the h&h. both are pretty much ballistic equals.
-the ruger is generally a lower price point rifle that is basically a ready to go guide/backup rifle. express sights, mauser style action, integral scope rings/bases, STAINLESS! what is not to like?

I own a 375 ruger with the houge over molded stock, 20" stainless rifle. i would not trade it for a 375 h&h with fantastic wood. why? i live in alaska; when i hunt with it, it will likely get wet every day, when guiding it WILL get salt water on it...every day. mine shoots better than i can aim it, and goes off every time. is it better than the h&h....NOPE, just different.

to the OP, either caliber will serve you well. some folks like wood and blued rifles better, they are not wrong. however, in hostile environments, the stainless rifle is needing less maintenance, so an ugly synthetic/ss h&h would be every bit as good AND have more ammo available. still would not trade my ruger in tho. it is low maintenance in the toughest environment one can hunt in.

i think velo dog is right about the short action craze, but, the ruger DOES fill a niche for an affordable, reliable and effective big game rifle in actions that are already available and easier to get. i think the ruger is a GREAT addition to the assortment of big game rifles available. again, not better, also not less than, just different.

Hiho Don, my old Alaskan pal,

I am, as you already know, +1 with you on the notion that, the Ruger is a great, if not fantastic value, for a stainless rifle, chambered in a powerful .37 caliber cartridge, for use in our wet environment (not to mention salty environment) that is both a reliable, plus accurate and AFFORDABLE rifle.
For this, the Ruger is today, indeed is very desirable.
These other chaps who fuss about an additional 100 fps velocity, are IMO missing the point.
In my opinion, I presume yours as well,
(based on living and hunting in coastal Alaska), the original H&H ballistics is more than enough for large, occasionally grumpy bears.
However, finding a rust resistant bolt action rifle, chambered in the original H&H version is lately almost impossible.

Cheers old Pal,
Velo Dog.

 

[Velo Dog]

.

 

[Velo Dog]

It all about cartridge efficiency.

If the original tried and true H&H version is not effecient, I do not know what is.

The truth is, if companies do not innovative. The die off, what would the sell?

Well ….. they could sell more rifles and ammunition to fit the well established and already more than proven .375 H&H.

On that note, if Winchester ever decides to re-issue their CRF Model 70, in the original .375 H&H caliber, even though I don’t generally care for stainless steel, plastic stocked rifles nonetheless, it is likely that I would buy one, for my sporadic contracts with various employers who, drag me out of retirement to work for them as a bear guard.

 

[Velo Dog]

I'm nor surprised by all the responses.

Edge in performance goes Ruger.

In my eyes, that is it's only win. Ammo for the H&H is more plentiful, has more options, will be found in more places and the biggest more rifles to choose from.

For people that reload, the Ruger would win that too. No belt to deal with.

Good luck on your quest.

What exactly does “edge in performance” mean.

Likewise what exactly does “No belt to deal with” mean ?

No disrespect but, please enlighten me.

Enquiring minds need to know.

 

[Inline6]

If the original tried and true H&H version is not effecient, I do not know what is.

Well ….. they could sell more rifles and ammunition to fit the well established and already more than proven .375 H&H.

On that note, if Winchester ever decides to re-issue their CRF Model 70, in the original .375 H&H caliber, even though I don’t generally care for stainless steel, plastic stocked rifles nonetheless, it is likely that I would buy one, for my sporadic contracts with various employers who, drag me out of retirement to work for them as a bear guard.

I'll do my best, how many people have multiple rifles of the same cartridge? I'm sure most do, not more than a few. Now how many people have different rifles in different cartridge? I would say a lot more. Most of the manufacturers stopped making the "Africa chambers". Demand is just not their, these companies would loose market share. They just would not be able to survive.

What exactly does “edge in performance” mean.

Likewise what exactly does “No belt to deal with” mean ?

No disrespect but, please enlighten me.

Enquiring minds need to know.

Edge in performance meaning shoots a little faster. I'm calling that performance.

Belted cases do not hold up well, they stretch at the belt. I try not to reload them more than 2X. Meaning 3 shots and I trash the brass.

 

[CD24]

A small thing but with a shorter bolt I don't have to lift my head from the stock to cycle the bolt. The standard length 375H&H and 416 Rigby bolt hits my nose and lifting my head to cycle slows the process quite a bit. Additionally, I only stand 5'8 and the guide gun (while ugly) fits me and handles quite nicely. I shoot the guide gun much better than the full length rifles. Speed and accuracy are far more important than 100fps of performance or nostalgia.

 

[Laniarius]

I had a 375 Ruger Guide Gun and even after a few hundred rounds I still found the feeding to be a bit rough. Not horrible and I think if I sent it in the Ruger repair centre probably would have just returned it and I'd have paid the shipping for nothing. (I'm a fan of Rugers and have the Guide Gun in 30-06 and love it.)

I sold the 375 Ruger Guide Gun and now have a 375 H&H Model 70 Safari. Feeds very smoothly and I am really glad I switched.

It's possible that it's a tolerance thing, that certain 375 Ruger Rifles may feed better than others, or with smithing could be improved. Given the tapered shape of the cartridge I think the 375 H&H is inherently smoother to feed.

 

[Velo Dog]

I'll do my best, how many people have multiple rifles of the same cartridge? I'm sure most do, not more than a few. Now how many people have different rifles in different cartridge? I would say a lot more. Most of the manufacturers stopped making the "Africa chambers". Demand is just not their, these companies would loose market share. They just would not be able to survive.

Edge in performance meaning shoots a little faster. I'm calling that performance.

Belted cases do not hold up well, they stretch at the belt. I try not to reload them more than 2X. Meaning 3 shots and I trash the brass.

Hello Inline6,

1.
I don’t know how many other people have multiple rifles for the same caliber.
Before I sold off almost all of my rifles, to help finance more hunting & fishing trips, certainly I was guilty of stockpiling quite a few of them, including some multiples of the same calibers.

My foggy memory (I’m now 70 years and ticking), recalls approximately a half dozen each, of my former collection that included multiples in the same caliber, mostly of unaltered military surplus rifles in 7x57, 8x57, .308 / 7.62x51 NATO, .30-06 calibers, at least.
Likewise formerly, I had owned more than a half dozen lever action rifles in .30-30 caliber.
(I’m ambidextrous and so, lever action rifles suit me very well).

Back then also, I was hoarding about 2 or 3 each, bolt action multiples of “sporting rifles,” chambered in other redundant common hunting calibers, such as .30-06, 7mm Remington Magnum, .270 Winchester, .300 H&H, .375 H&H and .45-70 Gov’t.
Again, beginning about 20 years ago, I sold almost all of them to finance more hunting and fishing adventures.
Now, I have only a very few select rifles.

Fast forward to now, I do not have more than one rifle for each caliber, of a couple calibers that I like the most.
So, I am not much help in figuring out the Anti-Socialist / Anti-Facist gun culture trend or statistic.

2.
I agree with you that there likely are a lot of people, at least in the countries where guns are common, who own different rifles for the same calibers.

3.
I also agree with you that the most likely reason companies have quit offering “Africa” calibers is that the marketplace for large bore rifle sales has probably slowed quite a bit lately.

It appears to me that at least here in the USA, sales of 5.56 mm caliber rifles, especially the AR-15 and combat handguns, mostly the Glock 9mm pistols plus, short rifles in caliber 7.62x 39 caliber (AK-47 carbines) are replacing hunting rifles in popularity.
I am saddened to see those generally replacing bolt action hunting riffles in popularity.
I do lament the passing of makers offering the wonderful large caliber rifles, for heavy dangerous game.

4.
Higher velocity ?
Ya, certainly you and other extra-high velocity guys are entitled to your opinion.
However, my personal experiences have brought me to the conclusion of, extra velocity is not better (more blast, more bloodshot meat).
By my definition, that equals less desirable, definitely not “better performance”.

5.
Stretching brass and damage / fracture at the belt….
Again, I draw from my personal experiences with belted cartridges.
Yours Truly began hand loading back around 1967.

Admittedly, all of what I hand loaded for back then were non-belted cartridges.
However, being a victim of the typical beginner’s hand loading disease, commonly known as, “velocity madness”, I suffered set backs.
During the folly of my youth, I was virtually always striving for the highest velocity possible.
This resulted in occasional fractured brass, after only a relatively few loadings.
That said, almost all of my fractured brass were split necks.

In all fairness to your belted cartridge concerns, I did not own or load for any belted cartridges until about the early 1970’s.
At that stage, my first and much dreaded belted magnum, was the .300 H&H.
Evidently, unlike yourself and others, I experienced zero separations / fractures at or near the belt.
My high pressure and repeated re-sizing fractures were 100% splitting of the neck.

The only brass fractures, at the base, in my personal experiences, were with the .25-35 Winchester cartridge, in my former Model 99 Savage. (a very strong repeater action).
Over the years, I had other pressure problems, from foolishly striving to wring the highest velocity from whatever caliber I was loading for, IE: flattened primers= stretched out / loose primer pockets.

The one experience that really began my recovery from velocity madness was when I experienced a stuck shell in my Remington Model 722 rifle, caliber .244 Remington.
I was in my early 20’s and still learning.

It happened in Nevada, upon shooting a jack rabbit, resulting in a very long walk from my truck, with a non-functional rifle, in typical summer time Nevada hot weather.
And, I saw other jack rabbits during my long hike back that, sometimes were out of range for my revolver.
( Their descendants are probably still laughing at me).
After hiking way back to my vehicle and pounding my stuck cartridge out with a cleaning rod, I experienced an epiphany, (moment of clarity).
Right then, I began my rapid and eventual complete recovery from the crippling disease, commonly know as, “Velocity Madness”.

Since those sordid times of my wasted youth, I have hand loaded for a laundry list, of calibers and cartridges, including but not limited to belted ones.
Again, I’ve never experienced a fracture at or near the belt, only split necks, same as with non-belted cartridges.

The secret, IMO appears to be in not striving for highest velocity (highest chamber pressure) and not full length sizing.
Even the gradual sloping shoulders of the .300 H&H and almost no shoulder .375 H&H cartridges, definitely benefit from neck sizing only, as opposed to full length re-sizing.
This combined with loading a bit below maximum velocity / chamber pressure is the remedy for much longer brass life.

As far as the .375 Ruger cartridge goes, my opinion = way more than needed.
In my personal experiences, with 300 grain bullets, the regular H&H version is already going too fast, by about 150 fps.
IE: It produces more bloodshot meat than it needs to.

I used to own a Merkel SxS double that regulated best (both barrel’s consistent accuracy, shot to shot), at 2400 fps with 300 grain round nose bullets, soft and solid.
That load proved more than perfectly adequate on every single critter I shot with it.
Likewise, I used this same load in my former several bolt action and Ruger single shot .375 H&H caliber rifles, with perfect success, both here in Alaska where I lived for a little over 40 years and multiple trips to Africa as well.

So, your statement of, “Edge in performance meaning shoots a little faster. I’m calling that performance”., is in my experiences, not anything but lowered performance (more blast, more recoil, and more bloodshot meat), no thank you.

In Other News:
Back on July 9 (2023), regarding my having seen a video of battle tank main gun projectile, tipping nose down, at the beginning of its flight, you rightfully corrected me on said main guns of specific military tanks having smooth bore barrels vs rifled barrels, I posted some pictures, frame by frame of same.
If it interests you, I apologize for the sequence of firing beginning at the bottom of said photos.
Indeed, I selected them in order of top to bottom but, with the voodoo of computers, they ended up instead, with the muzzle blast pic at the bottom and progressing upward, to the last pic being shown at the top.
You didn’t respond to it so, perhaps you were not impressed.
That’s ok too but, I mention it now in case you are interested and as I do, might find it interesting.

Be all of that as it may, if you plan to be at this year’s AH dinner in Dallas, TX, I would be honored if we can link up and continue this discussion on ballistics, over a cold one, I will buy the first round my friend.

Kind Regards,
Velo Dog
(Paul).

 

[Inline6]

@Velo Dog

I do remember that conversation. If you posted something and I missed it, I apologize. It was not my intention to ignore it. Lots of post here seem to get lost in the shuffle. I'll see if I can go back and find it.

We are going to try to make it this year. Would love to talk ballistics over a cold one. (Fair warning my cold ones are rather boring, I only drink water haha).

 

[Velo Dog]

@Velo Dog

I do remember that conversation. If you posted something and I missed it, I apologize. It was not my intention to ignore it. Lots of post here seem to get lost in the shuffle. I'll see if I can go back and find it.

We are going to try to make it this year. Would love to talk ballistics over a cold one. (Fair warning my cold ones are rather boring, I only drink water haha).

No worries at all.
There is no doubt that many posts get past my eye.
In fact at my age, probably more and more every day.

Water is good.
You will be a cheap date.
I quit drinking alcohol around the beginning of July.
My wife has all but quit alcohol as well.
We’ve both lost a lot of weight, clearly as a result of drying out and regaining our self control around all-you-can-eat restaurants.

Haven’t decided to start again at this stage.
Might or might not eventually have a beer or two by the time of the AH Dinner.

Either way, hope to see you there.

 

[Taylorz1]

Im late to this conversation and dont uave much to add except to say that if I was hunting internationally Id carry a .375 hh but if I was hunting in the US m, especially coastal Alaska, Id carry the .375 ruger in their stainless package if I couldnt find a stainless m70 375 hh. Also wanted to thank Hunter Habib for all the pics. Looks like a lifetime of adventures. Im sure you must have one heck of a scrap book sir. Best

Zack

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog’s definition of best is a bit too outdated for me. I don’t agree with all Kevin Robertson’s definition of best either.

Greetings 375Fox,

If your opinion is based on experience, then I respect you for it.
Well heck, even if it’s only based on theory, I still respect you for it.
Perhaps less so, if it’s not based on experience but nonetheless, I respect you either way.

At any rate, myself and Kevin Robertson in the same thought sequence ?
Thanks for that but, I am probably not worthy to shine that man’s shoes.

Hope to see you at the AH Dinner in Dallas this January.

Best Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[375Fox]

Greetings 375Fox,

If your opinion is based on experience, then I respect you for it.
Well heck, even if it’s only based on theory, I still respect you for it.
Perhaps less so, if it’s not based on experience but nonetheless, I respect you either way.

At any rate, myself and Kevin Robertson in the same thought sequence ?
Thanks for that but, I am probably not worthy to shine that man’s shoes.

Hope to see you at the AH Dinner in Dallas this January.

Best Regards,
Velo Dog.

I wasn’t trying to discredit your opinion or compare it to Kevin Robertson’s with my post. You clipped out the main point I was trying to make that There are many definitions of best when it comes to guns/bullets. You grew up before bonded bullets, so your definition of best based on your experience is a 220 gr core-lokt in 30-06 I believe was your example. I grew up with bonded bullets and 300 magnums so a faster 180 gr 300 win with a bonded bullet would be my definition of best for a similar comparison. I can’t recall your exact definition of best with a 375 H&H but I’ll assume it’s slower and 350 grain bullets where mine would be flatter shooting and faster 300 grain premium bonded bullets such as a trophy bonded bear claw. There are a lot of definitions of best that have worked well. When my rifle arrived to Cameroon and my ammo did not the plain old federal 300 gr non-bonded soft points in camp fully met my definition of best at that moment, but would not be my definition of best if other options are available.

If the AH dinner is Friday night you’ll get to meet me there this year. I’m looking forward to going.

300 grain swift A Frame from Buffalo probably 75 yards. Perfect performance.

300 grain trophy bonded bear claw from kudu maybe 70 yards and finishing shot from few steps. Perfect performance in my opinion especially from close shot at full MV.

300 grain woodleigh protected point fragments from Roan at 70-80 yards unable to hold up to standard 300 grain 375 H&H velocities. For all its fame, i don’t consider woodleigh a premium soft after this. Maybe at 350 gr velocities or in larger slower calibers.

 

[Dhutson]

Fellow Hunters,

I know that those who dig on whatever is new in the market place are going to slap me silly for the following rant.

Nonetheless, sometimes I believe we should say something to the benefit of people just starting out in the hunting of larger than white tail deer sized critters, lest they become infected with “velocity madness”, leaving them weakened and easy prey for such as the following described advertising strategy ………

Today’s trend (fad) in short action rifles is simply an advertising tactic, so that the factories can sell to us something we don’t really need.
In launching new and puffed up claims of “better” products = when their sales pitch is a success, they reap the benefit of a sales frenzy.
But, the only benefit to anyone in making shorter rifle mechanisms is using less steel.
As such, by using less material to build each product, the maker gains more profit margin.

It is absolutely zero benefit to the consumer.
Make no mistake, I am absolutely 100% all for capitalism.
Even with that, I will not fall for the sales hype from every traveling medicine show and snake oil peddler that rolls across the prairie.

Short actioned rifles do nothing that is truly useful to the hunter, plus sometimes they actually make things more problematic for the hunter (magazine box too short to use heavy bullet ammunition).
An exception might be argued that for high mountain hunts (sheep, goat, chamois, etc.), every gram of weight shaved off a rifle matters.
However with that, most hunters will not choose a .37 bore to hunt such alpine critters with in the first place.
(So lucky you guys, my rant continues).
Also with stiff kickers, when a rifle is too light, recoil can be more of a hindrance than a benefit.

Anyway, Ruger touts and crows often enough that their new version of the .375 inch bore cartridge, provides 100 feet per second higher velocity than the original H&H version, provided the same barrel length or maybe even a tic shorter.
Evidently this advertising strategy has worked, because the Ruger cartridge seems to be popular enough that I sometimes see ammunition for it on gun store display shelves.
The sand in this ice cream is that when using 300 grain bullets, the H&H is already going about 150 fps faster than necessary.

Well anyway, if a person wants an inexpensive .375 caliber bolt action rifle that is made from stainless steel, the Ruger is all of that.
Never mind that people who’ve shot the Ruger version, sometimes say that the Ruger cartridge recoils a bit more than the original H&H .375 generally does and ammunition is sometimes not as commonly available as the original H&H version ammunition is.

Be all of that as it may, here in extra wet coastal Alaska where I live, using such a stainless steel rifle, as the Ruger, chambered in a powerful cartridge would make sense.
(Both rusted metal and large bears are very, very common here).
If however Ruger made that same rifle with the proper length action, to fit the original H&H caliber, it would make a lot more sense (a lot more sense to me anyway).


Ok that’s it, my rifle grump rant ends here.

Bah Humbug,
Velo Dog.

There ain't a tinker's damn difference. Stay with the classic. 375 H&W Winchester Mod. 70.

 

[Axle2010]

I've never shot but I've handled a Ruger Alaskan and it didn't come close to the feel of my M70 in 375H&H. The M70 does come in synthetic/stainless so imo is no contest. And I am a Ruger fan as well. Either way you'll be gtg.

 

[Velo Dog]

I wasn’t trying to discredit your opinion or compare it to Kevin Robertson’s with my post. You clipped out the main point I was trying to make that There are many definitions of best when it comes to guns/bullets. You grew up before bonded bullets, so your definition of best based on your experience is a 220 gr core-lokt in 30-06 I believe was your example. I grew up with bonded bullets and 300 magnums so a faster 180 gr 300 win with a bonded bullet would be my definition of best for a similar comparison. I can’t recall your exact definition of best with a 375 H&H but I’ll assume it’s slower and 350 grain bullets where mine would be flatter shooting and faster 300 grain premium bonded bullets such as a trophy bonded bear claw. There are a lot of definitions of best that have worked well. When my rifle arrived to Cameroon and my ammo did not the plain old federal 300 gr non-bonded soft points in camp fully met my definition of best at that moment, but would not be my definition of best if other options are available.

If the AH dinner is Friday night you’ll get to meet me there this year. I’m looking forward to going.

300 grain swift A Frame from Buffalo probably 75 yards. Perfect performance.
View attachment 567709

300 grain trophy bonded bear claw from kudu maybe 70 yards and finishing shot from few steps. Perfect performance in my opinion especially from close shot at full MV.
View attachment 567710

300 grain woodleigh protected point fragments from Roan at 70-80 yards unable to hold up to standard 300 grain 375 H&H velocities. For all its fame, i don’t consider woodleigh a premium soft after this. Maybe at 350 gr velocities or in larger slower calibers.View attachment 567711

Hi again 375Fox,

A picture truly IS worth a thousand words.
Your shattered 300 gr Woodleigh at factory H&H velocity seems most remarkable.
Thank you for posting it.
It supports what I’ve been whimpering about all along, that the original 300 grain bullet / 2550 fps loading needs no boost in speed.
It’s already going faster than necessary.

However, I’ve not experienced fractured .375 diameter bullets, including 235 gr Speer, 270 gr, various makers and 300 gr various makers.
My opinion on this velocity thing is based on more than necessary bloodshot meat,
including with the usually sturdy enough 300 gr bullet (my favorite weight in .375 caliber).

Excessive bloodshot meat usually doesn’t happen for me with the .375 H&H, no matter what bullet weight, even the 235 gr Speer semi-spitzer at 2700+ fps.
But, with the 300 gr bullet (I’ve used multiple brands), loaded down to about 2400 fps, I have yet to experience excessively bloodshot / ruined meat, even once.

Iv’e shot a fare number of animals with 300 gr bullets at both factory standard velocity and the mentioned hand loads, only going around 2400 fps.
The milder load drops animals exactly the same with equal hits on like specie critters, yet damages less meat.
Incidentally, the 300 grain bullet at 2400 fps duplicates the original load specs for the H&H .375 Flanged Magnum, once common in double rifles and single shots, including ones of best quality from England.

The only .37 caliber bullet fractures I have learned about are yours just now and a fellow I know (Scott Hendersen), who used to live here in Anchorage, told me that he experienced a 260 gr Nosler Partition bullet shatter against the brisket of a bull moose at only a relatively few paces from the muzzle.
However, his rifle was definitely a faster wild cat version of the .375 bore.
As I recall, it was the blown out 40 degree shoulder P.O. Ackley version = pretty much a ballistic twin to the .375 Weatherby.
That example also supports my opinion that, the original H&H ballistics does not need any velocity boosting at all.

As far as extra velocity cartridges go, I say if one must go extra fast than one should use extra tough bullets, to withstand the extra stress of extra velocity impacts against large animal bones.
A-Frames are as far as I can tell, simply splendid bonded bullets.
Likewise, Bear Claw bullets evidently have an equally wonderful reputation as well.
But it seems Bear Claw bullets are not commonly available to hand loaders.
A-Frames are more available for hand loading, far as I can tell.

And 350 gr bullets for the .375 ?
Ya, I’ve not only never tried them myself, but I don’t even know anyone who has.
From what I have witnessed of the Swift A-Frame 300 gr bullet, I would definitely recommend it for .375 caliber rifles, H&H or the Ruger and various obscure .37 caliber boomers as well, when deciding to use this caliber on heavy dangerous game animals (too much bloodshot meat not withstanding).
When I do bear guard contracts, wherein the employer allows me to bring my own firearm, I always bring my .375 and 300 grain A-Frame ammunition.

Speaking of excessively bloodshot meat, the various .300 magnums and 7mm magnums are in my opinion not very good general purpose or “all around” cartridges, again due to their extra velocity = far too much bloodshot meat at closer, more typical hunting ranges.
That said, I do favor such cartridges for longer shots at soft skin game.
It’s not that a lower velocity (within reason) cartridge will be less effective than the dreaded magnums.
It’s just that the belted magnum .30 and 7mm, due to their higher velocity, make it easier to hit small targets out past about 300 meters / yards.

At any rate, if we sat and talked for a spell, I predict we would have the same opinion on some things and different in some other things.
That is what makes for interesting conversations IMO.

Hopefully we can meet at the AH Dinner and perhaps continue the ballistic conversations.

Cheers,
Paul
(Velo Dog).

 

[colorado]

Hi again 375Fox,

A picture truly IS worth a thousand words.
Your shattered 300 gr Woodleigh at factory H&H velocity seems most remarkable.
Thank you for posting it.
It supports what I’ve been whimpering about all along, that the original 300 grain bullet / 2550 fps loading needs no boost in speed.
It’s already going faster than necessary.

However, I’ve not experienced fractured .375 diameter bullets, including 235 gr Speer, 270 gr, various makers and 300 gr various makers.
My opinion on this velocity thing is based on more than necessary bloodshot meat,
including with the usually sturdy enough 300 gr bullet (my favorite weight in .375 caliber).

Excessive bloodshot meat usually doesn’t happen for me with the .375 H&H, no matter what bullet weight, even the 235 gr Speer semi-spitzer at 2700+ fps.
But, with the 300 gr bullet (I’ve used multiple brands), loaded down to about 2400 fps, I have yet to experience excessively bloodshot / ruined meat, even once.

Iv’e shot a fare number of animals with 300 gr bullets at both factory standard velocity and the mentioned hand loads, only going around 2400 fps.
The milder load drops animals exactly the same with equal hits on like specie critters, yet damages less meat.
Incidentally, the 300 grain bullet at 2400 fps duplicates the original load specs for the H&H .375 Flanged Magnum, once common in double rifles and single shots, including ones of best quality from England.

The only .37 caliber bullet fractures I have learned about are yours just now and a fellow I know (Scott Hendersen), who used to live here in Anchorage, told me that he experienced a 260 gr Nosler Partition bullet shatter against the brisket of a bull moose at only a relatively few paces from the muzzle.
However, his rifle was definitely a faster wild cat version of the .375 bore.
As I recall, it was the blown out 40 degree shoulder P.O. Ackley version = pretty much a ballistic twin to the .375 Weatherby.
That example also supports my opinion that, the original H&H ballistics does not need any velocity boosting at all.

As far as extra velocity cartridges go, I say if one must go extra fast than one should use extra tough bullets, to withstand the extra stress of extra velocity impacts against large animal bones.
A-Frames are as far as I can tell, simply splendid bonded bullets.
Likewise, Bear Claw bullets evidently have an equally wonderful reputation as well.
But it seems Bear Claw bullets are not commonly available to hand loaders.
A-Frames are more available for hand loading, far as I can tell.

And 350 gr bullets for the .375 ?
Ya, I’ve not only never tried them myself, but I don’t even know anyone who has.
From what I have witnessed of the Swift A-Frame 300 gr bullet, I would definitely recommend it for .375 caliber rifles, H&H or the Ruger and various obscure .37 caliber boomers as well, when deciding to use this caliber on heavy dangerous game animals (too much bloodshot meat not withstanding).
When I do bear guard contracts, wherein the employer allows me to bring my own firearm, I always bring my .375 and 300 grain A-Frame ammunition.

Speaking of excessively bloodshot meat, the various .300 magnums and 7mm magnums are in my opinion not very good general purpose or “all around” cartridges, again due to their extra velocity = far too much bloodshot meat at closer, more typical hunting ranges.
That said, I do favor such cartridges for longer shots at soft skin game.
It’s not that a lower velocity (within reason) cartridge will be less effective than the dreaded magnums.
It’s just that the belted magnum .30 and 7mm, due to their higher velocity, make it easier to hit small targets out past about 300 meters / yards.

At any rate, if we sat and talked for a spell, I predict we would have the same opinion on some things and different in some other things.
That is what makes for interesting conversations IMO.

Hopefully we can meet at the AH Dinner and perhaps continue the ballistic conversations.

Cheers,
Paul
(Velo Dog).

300g A-Frame out of a 375 Weatherby shooting 375 H&H factory ammo at around 2500 fps. Impacted the bear facing me diagonally at 13 yards entering right behind the right shoulder, found under the hide of the left thigh. Still weighs 295.5g did extensive damage. Bear was spewing lots of blood from his mount. Took 5 minutes to die, went in after him found him dead waiting on the trail. I'm a big fan of the 300g A-Frames from a 375 (H&H, or Ruger)